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@bremo

Be open minded being wrong. The majority of humans thought world was flat. Minority knew the world was round. Who was right and who were wrong? Humans aren't dogs don't have the capabilities or intelligence to understand them more like dogs can. Dogs understand themselves and us more than humans do dogs. The more you respect and are kind to who he is the better off dogs will be. Seems kind of selfish phrase and silly "dogs are not humans". So how do you know you are right cause of silly books? You need plenty of personal experiences.
By making it crystal clear that I am in charge I am being so very kind to my dogs. I am preparing them for a life in a world that is run and dominated by humans. They look to me, a human, for ques and guidance during daily life. It allows them to interact with people, other dogs and see(smell) interesting places.

Think of how simple and easy their life is because of me. I feed them, I keep them healthy, get them healed up if sick. I cover their heads with a climate controlled habitat that is free of poisons and potential dangers. I will protect them to my dying breath. Demanding a modicum of civil behavior is a small burden on a dog, their social instincts are very powerful.

Add to that I love my dogs with every fiber of my being. They are loyal and unshakable companions, they weather any storm without malice. They make me laugh and unfortunately cry(don't live long enough). Over the many thousands of years we as a race have had canines as part of our society natural selection has molded a creature that thrives(depends possibly?) on strong leadership. Intelligent working dogs need direction and focus to properly fit into a culture wherein humans sit at the top and brook no misbehavior from "lesser" species. We owe it to dogs to show them the way.

As someone already mentioned, I own my dogs. It's a legal issue. What is the point of bucking that sentiment? It gets me, the dog and anyone associated with me or the dog nowhere. Best to accept that it's the way of the world and work with it. Does not change the fact I care extremely deeply for my dogs, respect them for what they are and try diligently to make communication as clear as possible between species.
 

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I think one of the biggest mistakes pet owners make is that they humanize their dogs way too much. So many describe their dogs as their "babies" and that's fine until they actually believe it, literally. Dogs are not humans. They don't rationalize like humans do because they're not wired that way.

Set rules, be fair, consistent, and respect the animal.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I think I see what the OP is talking about in a way. Mainly because of my own spiritual path, sometimes I see animals as something....more? I don't know if that is the word for it really.

I don't see my dogs as people, and they of course need to be taught what they should/shouldn't do, etc.

However, while some people see a dog as a dog is a dog, I see them as more. Perhaps it's something I got from my Native American Grandmother, I'm not sure, but I do think on a more spiritual level there is an amount of give/take in regards to respecting an animal for what and who they are. I think part of that respect is about not treating them as something they are not. (ex: treating dogs as people)

My dog is my dog, legally I own them, I have to teach them what I want them to do, but on a different level they are my brother and they teach me as much as I teach them.

Maybe that made sense. lol
This has nothing to do spiritually.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Ok, well, never mind. I don't really get what you are saying. lol.

Part of the respect you speak of is understanding the differences between two things. I find it disrespectful myself to lay biased understandings on something that has nothing to do with those understandings.

The respect is the striving to understand the differences and learning from them. IMO. Dogs/people, totally different. That doesn't mean that there can't be any respect and understanding there.
@GSDolch

Dogs are someone, not something. The greatest philosophers were not gotten by humans and people thought it was silly they believed world was round. Humans are too focused on the differences, that is too silly and disrespectful. Maybe if you all look at what is the same instead of what is different you will see dogs and other nonhuman animals alike quite the same. Just silly to compare humans to dogs in a difference matter too much. I don't care if my philosophy is biased. Have plenty of experiences I know what I'm talking about. Not any normal human who looks black and white about one point of view. This is my point of view for minority. I find dogs respecting and are kinder cause I have this philosophy that they are aware of. No more dogs are not humans utterly silly and disrespectful and speciesism.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
I love my dogs. I respect them for being everything dog (not human) and enjoy a working partnership with them and understanding how they see the world from a whole different view. I do not consider them my "friends".

A friend is going to bop me on the side of the head if I do something stupid. Is going to console me if I am in pain and talk with me about important things. A dog will simply "be there" and not judge, because it does not have that kind of discernment, but there is a place for that, too.
Everyone sees the world at a different view, every individual dog, human, dolphin, wolf, cat, cow, pig, chicken, fish, etc. they are aware of this world we live in and feel pain emotions, etc alike humans.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
By making it crystal clear that I am in charge I am being so very kind to my dogs. I am preparing them for a life in a world that is run and dominated by humans. They look to me, a human, for ques and guidance during daily life. It allows them to interact with people, other dogs and see(smell) interesting places.

Think of how simple and easy their life is because of me. I feed them, I keep them healthy, get them healed up if sick. I cover their heads with a climate controlled habitat that is free of poisons and potential dangers. I will protect them to my dying breath. Demanding a modicum of civil behavior is a small burden on a dog, their social instincts are very powerful.

Add to that I love my dogs with every fiber of my being. They are loyal and unshakable companions, they weather any storm without malice. They make me laugh and unfortunately cry(don't live long enough). Over the many thousands of years we as a race have had canines as part of our society natural selection has molded a creature that thrives(depends possibly?) on strong leadership. Intelligent working dogs need direction and focus to properly fit into a culture wherein humans sit at the top and brook no misbehavior from "lesser" species. We owe it to dogs to show them the way.

As someone already mentioned, I own my dogs. It's a legal issue. What is the point of bucking that sentiment? It gets me, the dog and anyone associated with me or the dog nowhere. Best to accept that it's the way of the world and work with it. Does not change the fact I care extremely deeply for my dogs, respect them for what they are and try diligently to make communication as clear as possible between species.
Bragging how humans are above and all makes feel dogs are lesser. Kind of tired of that, no offense. I'm going to start sayin humans are not dogs and go from there.
 

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When i was growing up i had a mixed mutt that ment the world to me, his name was chip and he was a rotti/dobe ..my memories of him are pretty strong, i had the flu and i remember he let me sleep on his tummy for hours without so much as moving, i used to come home from school and make him pb and jam toast. I painted his toenails bright pink and dressed him up, he tolerated everything i did with him. I went to my sisters house with him and she would not let him sleep in my room so i stashed him in the closet when she was not looking and he slept in my room without her knowing. Chip too me was my best friend, he was everywere i was, he shared ice cream cones with me, he is the only dog that i still cant think about without bursting into tears out of sheer sadness that i dont have him here with me anymore and its been 21 years. Chip was that special, i remember treating him like a best friend but a human best friend. I cant remember anything he ever did wrong, i am sure my parents would beable to name a few things :)
 

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Bragging how humans are above and all makes feel dogs are lesser. Kind of tired of that, no offense. I'm going to start sayin humans are not dogs and go from there.
I'm not bragging about my opposable thumbs and freakishly massive brain. It's just how it is in the natural world. Dogs are subservient, it's their niche. It's our job to help them flourish in that niche. By improving their quality of life we improve ours. I don't dislike them because they can't work out a quadratic equation, they don't dislike me because I can't smell where that squirrell peed two weeks ago.
 

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Lobobear. Have an open mind. It is ok for you to have your own opinions. It is not ok to decide everyone who does not share YOUR opinion is wrong, then tell them so.
 

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I don't dislike them because they can't work out a quadratic equation, they don't dislike me because I can't smell where that squirrell peed two weeks ago.
Question...where has that answer to the quadratic equation ever gotten you?

That squirrel piss...possibilities are endless!
 

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By making it crystal clear that I am in charge I am being so very kind to my dogs. I am preparing them for a life in a world that is run and dominated by humans. They look to me, a human, for ques and guidance during daily life. It allows them to interact with people, other dogs and see(smell) interesting places.

Think of how simple and easy their life is because of me. I feed them, I keep them healthy, get them healed up if sick. I cover their heads with a climate controlled habitat that is free of poisons and potential dangers. I will protect them to my dying breath. Demanding a modicum of civil behavior is a small burden on a dog, their social instincts are very powerful.
^ This bit, yes.

I respect that my dogs are not people, and they both have very different personalities. I don't make my anti-social dog play with other dogs; he wouldn't enjoy it. I don't give hard corrections to my soft girl; she doesn't need it. They are indeed individuals, but as for how they see the world... I can't know that.

There are some things that my dogs have taught me. Their absolute joy while playing and training is beautiful. They have actually helped me immensely with mindfulness exercises, as I have learned to focus on the "now" while taking walks or playing fetch. "Now" is hard for people, but it may be all that dogs deal with. It is, really, all they need.

I do not think that my dogs are children. They are indeed technically property. We are, I think, partners. Very different species who manage to live and thrive together, but who can communicate only on a basic level.
 

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I love, respect and cherish my dogs for exactly what they are: dogs. My dog has rules and boundaries, and is a working partner and trained regularly from 8 weeks of age and on. My dog also sleeps on my couch and my bed... he is my canine companion, my non-human best friend, my "furkid", my beast.

Not everyone will agree with the fact that my dog truly is a non-human member of my family, and takes part in my family's daily life as much as the next person in my family... but it works for me, it makes me happy, and it doesn't matter what others think. What is "wrong" for some (sleeping on couch, bring dog everywhere, allowing my dog to fill the space a human child would [I will never have children]) is "right" for me.

I think as long as the dog and family is happy and thriving, people shouldn't be so quick to judge or condemn.
 

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I do not treat my dog like a child. A child is naive, innocent, ignorant about many things and needs to be nurtured, cherished, and protected. My dog is an adult with years of experience and training. He has put in 110% into many things we've done. He's bred and trained to protect me with his life. I do not think of him like a little child that is innocent and helpless in many situations. He is deserving of MY loyalty and respect, probably more so than his loyalty and respect toward me. Hopefully that makes sense.
 

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My dog is a part of my family, but he is NOT my child. He is NOT a human. He is a dog, and I treat him as such, he is spoiled, yes I put human emotions on him, but I do not treat him the same I would a human being.

My dog is my companion, my best friend, but I still need HUMAN relationships. I respect him for everything he is as a dog, and I love him more than most people know.

That said, my dog has to obey me, respect me, and learn from me. I am in charge, not him, and if I didnt set rules and boundaries I would have a very unruly dog. I am the one who feeds him and takes care of him, not the other way around. I don't think you can say every creature is equal, cause they are not. As beings, yes we are all beings, but some have higher intelligence. My dog is not gonna be going to work and paying my bills....so we are NOT all equal. It is not fair to humanize animals to that extent. Respect them for what they are.

And before you jump on me for being 'cruel' or whatever, I am dedicating my life and education to animals so obviously I do care about them.
 

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Everyone sees the world at a different view, every individual dog, human, dolphin, wolf, cat, cow, pig, chicken, fish, etc. they are aware of this world we live in and feel pain emotions, etc alike humans.
This is wrong. Scientifically wrong. Dogs are NOT self aware. Dolphins, chimps, elephants and gorillas ARE self aware. Those animals see themselves in a mirror and understand they are looking at a reflection. A dog attacks or tries to play it. They do not have a concept of self.

My dogs are my property. I care for their base needs, food water excersise shelter and mental stimulation. They in turn provide me with affection, laughter, cuddle partners and security.

While not sentient, in any sense, they are intelligent. What other species has found humans to be the ultimate source of survival as dogs have. We provide for them, we help them reproduce, we feed them without them having to hunt, we protect them (not all, I get that). But dogs learned their chances if survival were greatly increased by aligning with us.

To compare them to humans is a disservice to them. They are a separate animal, separate needs, separate genetics. As a dog owner/guardian we are responsible for maintaining their needs AS A DOG. Anthroprimorphizing an animal fulfills OUR needs. Makes us feel better, feel loved, but it does nothing for the dog except confuse them.


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To me, valuing the dog for what it is, and not demanding it be something it is not, makes for a happier dog and owner.
 

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100% agree with gsdsar.

Also, if we want to get technical, octopi are a species that is SCARY intelligent, and just may be the most intelligent creatures on earth. They are so aware of their surroundings that it's kinda scary, but would you say that an octopus has feelings? (they don't).
 

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To compare them to humans is a disservice to them. They are a separate animal, separate needs, separate genetics. As a dog owner/guardian we are responsible for maintaining their needs AS A DOG.
I really like how you worded this. Dogs do have different needs from us, and we need to be aware of those needs and the differences between the human animal and the dog animal so we can respect them and have a more fulfilling relationship.
 

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Lolobear....

You are young and have the whole world to learn in years to come. Some lesson will be easy and some hard. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking your done learning, we are never done learning.
You do a wonderful service by volunteering and helping dogs, that is one experience that will be a part of who you are as you grow and mature. When you say you can handle any dog, you are saying you are done learning. I have "owned", yes owned dogs longer than you have been alive and I challenge myself to learn something new everyday. Let me tell you that as I get older I find it that much harder to change my ways and sometimes harder to understand new ways. My dog Gus has been a new chapter in my life, one filled with new training techniques that have had me saying "omg why didn't I try this or research it years ago".
Your ideas are young and some are hard for many of us to understand, thats ok...they are yours and we don't need to understand. They will change as you mature and learn.
I do hope that one day you learn and accept that dogs are dogs. I feel they can be a member of your family and something you cherish more than words can ever explain but they should not replace or be confused with human beings.

I think you need to find a strong knowledgeable mentor who is accessible to you on a regular basis. It doesn't have to be a GSD breeder, it could be a professional trainer. It could be a Labrador breeder, just someone who is willing to share their knowledge with you.
 
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