dogs are not people. a gsd needs training and leadership.

 

Lol humans aren't dogs.

 

I agree to an extent, but I also see dogs like children, there is a time and place for play, but also a time and place for falling in line.

At the end of the day, I decide who sleeps on which pillow, and his is on the floor.

 

my dog is allowed on the bed so he can decide if he wants to lay
on his bed in our bedroom or jump on the bed with us.

I agree to an extent, but I also see dogs like children, there is a time and place for play, but also a time and place for falling in line.

At the end of the day, >>>>>I decide who sleeps on which pillow, and his is on the floor.<<<<<[/QUOTE]

 

HA to all those people who thought I was crazy when I started a College fund for Gus.

 

Except the really really annoying ones. I like to chop those ones up and feed them to my cat. :tongue:

OP, I think I remember you now. Didn't you post a similar thread a few months ago?

 

Yep. And quite a doozy too.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/306570-cesar-millian-dog-terms.html

My philosophy is that kids should... Naah. Never mind. I don't want to start a cyber storm.

 

I love my dogs dearly, I do everything and anything I can for them. They are NOT however people. They are not wired like us, can't think like us and sure don't act like us(thank heavens). They live in a human-centric world yet by design do not act like humans, so some guidance is needed. Heavy-handed jerking around isn't necessary as dogs are pretty well endowed with social behavioral traits, but a firm hand is needed. The more a dog understands that you(owner) is in charge the better off the dog will be, IMHO.

 

@bremo

Be open minded being wrong. The majority of humans thought world was flat. Minority knew the world was round. Who was right and who were wrong? Humans aren't dogs don't have the capabilities or intelligence to understand them more like dogs can. Dogs understand themselves and us more than humans do dogs. The more you respect and are kind to who he is the better off dogs will be. Seems kind of selfish phrase and silly "dogs are not humans". So how do you know you are right cause of silly books? You need plenty of personal experiences.

 

this is a youth romanticizing about dogs.

 

I think I see what the OP is talking about in a way. Mainly because of my own spiritual path, sometimes I see animals as something....more? I don't know if that is the word for it really.

I don't see my dogs as people, and they of course need to be taught what they should/shouldn't do, etc.

However, while some people see a dog as a dog is a dog, I see them as more. Perhaps it's something I got from my Native American Grandmother, I'm not sure, but I do think on a more spiritual level there is an amount of give/take in regards to respecting an animal for what and who they are. I think part of that respect is about not treating them as something they are not. (ex: treating dogs as people)

My dog is my dog, legally I own them, I have to teach them what I want them to do, but on a different level they are my brother and they teach me as much as I teach them.

Maybe that made sense. lol

 

This has nothing to do spiritually.

 

doggiedad, you are correct of course, but this is a gsd forum.

 

I love my dogs. I respect them for being everything dog (not human) and enjoy a working partnership with them and understanding how they see the world from a whole different view. I do not consider them my "friends".

A friend is going to bop me on the side of the head if I do something stupid. Is going to console me if I am in pain and talk with me about important things. A dog will simply "be there" and not judge, because it does not have that kind of discernment, but there is a place for that, too.

 

Everyone sees the world at a different view, every individual dog, human, dolphin, wolf, cat, cow, pig, chicken, fish, etc. they are aware of this world we live in and feel pain emotions, etc alike humans.

 

maybe a different take

I was taught, and believe that when you accept the responsibility of careing for an animal, you have entered into a covenant with God. You have agreed to take care of one of his creations to the best of your ability. You will recieve in return, in proportion to your care and training, the best that creation can give. It does not mean I treat them as people, nor do I go overboard with suplerfious extravagence.

As one who must deal with some of the less than desireable influences of a thirty year career in the US Army, I can say that the gift I recieve is sanity and comfort.

Just my two cents.

 

5 years ago i would have been all over this! dogs are friends but i would not count of the respect thing because they just naturally realize it. I gave my rescue nothing but love and respect up until 7 months ago, she bit me, ripped food out of my mouth and hands and would not come to me unless i went to get her..it could have been the fact i treated her like a total baby and she got everything she wanted from me. I set some rules and within a week things changed for the better..instead of a dog that bit me when i came to her, i have a dog that i go to for love and she has not bit me since. They are friends and they are always in your hearts, they should be treated dearly and taken care of. They dont operate like people though.

 

I think one of the biggest mistakes pet owners make is that they humanize their dogs way too much. So many describe their dogs as their "babies" and that's fine until they actually believe it, literally. Dogs are not humans. They don't rationalize like humans do because they're not wired that way.

Set rules, be fair, consistent, and respect the animal.

 

When i was growing up i had a mixed mutt that ment the world to me, his name was chip and he was a rotti/dobe ..my memories of him are pretty strong, i had the flu and i remember he let me sleep on his tummy for hours without so much as moving, i used to come home from school and make him pb and jam toast. I painted his toenails bright pink and dressed him up, he tolerated everything i did with him. I went to my sisters house with him and she would not let him sleep in my room so i stashed him in the closet when she was not looking and he slept in my room without her knowing. Chip too me was my best friend, he was everywere i was, he shared ice cream cones with me, he is the only dog that i still cant think about without bursting into tears out of sheer sadness that i dont have him here with me anymore and its been 21 years. Chip was that special, i remember treating him like a best friend but a human best friend. I cant remember anything he ever did wrong, i am sure my parents would beable to name a few things

 

Lobobear. Have an open mind. It is ok for you to have your own opinions. It is not ok to decide everyone who does not share YOUR opinion is wrong, then tell them so.

 

I love, respect and cherish my dogs for exactly what they are: dogs. My dog has rules and boundaries, and is a working partner and trained regularly from 8 weeks of age and on. My dog also sleeps on my couch and my bed... he is my canine companion, my non-human best friend, my "furkid", my beast.

Not everyone will agree with the fact that my dog truly is a non-human member of my family, and takes part in my family's daily life as much as the next person in my family... but it works for me, it makes me happy, and it doesn't matter what others think. What is "wrong" for some (sleeping on couch, bring dog everywhere, allowing my dog to fill the space a human child would [I will never have children]) is "right" for me.

I think as long as the dog and family is happy and thriving, people shouldn't be so quick to judge or condemn.

 

I do not treat my dog like a child. A child is naive, innocent, ignorant about many things and needs to be nurtured, cherished, and protected. My dog is an adult with years of experience and training. He has put in 110% into many things we've done. He's bred and trained to protect me with his life. I do not think of him like a little child that is innocent and helpless in many situations. He is deserving of MY loyalty and respect, probably more so than his loyalty and respect toward me. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

My dog is a part of my family, but he is NOT my child. He is NOT a human. He is a dog, and I treat him as such, he is spoiled, yes I put human emotions on him, but I do not treat him the same I would a human being.

My dog is my companion, my best friend, but I still need HUMAN relationships. I respect him for everything he is as a dog, and I love him more than most people know.

That said, my dog has to obey me, respect me, and learn from me. I am in charge, not him, and if I didnt set rules and boundaries I would have a very unruly dog. I am the one who feeds him and takes care of him, not the other way around. I don't think you can say every creature is equal, cause they are not. As beings, yes we are all beings, but some have higher intelligence. My dog is not gonna be going to work and paying my bills....so we are NOT all equal. It is not fair to humanize animals to that extent. Respect them for what they are.

And before you jump on me for being 'cruel' or whatever, I am dedicating my life and education to animals so obviously I do care about them.

 

To me, valuing the dog for what it is, and not demanding it be something it is not, makes for a happier dog and owner.

 

100% agree with gsdsar.

Also, if we want to get technical, octopi are a species that is SCARY intelligent, and just may be the most intelligent creatures on earth. They are so aware of their surroundings that it's kinda scary, but would you say that an octopus has feelings? (they don't).

 

Lolobear....

You are young and have the whole world to learn in years to come. Some lesson will be easy and some hard. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking your done learning, we are never done learning.
You do a wonderful service by volunteering and helping dogs, that is one experience that will be a part of who you are as you grow and mature. When you say you can handle any dog, you are saying you are done learning. I have "owned", yes owned dogs longer than you have been alive and I challenge myself to learn something new everyday. Let me tell you that as I get older I find it that much harder to change my ways and sometimes harder to understand new ways. My dog Gus has been a new chapter in my life, one filled with new training techniques that have had me saying "omg why didn't I try this or research it years ago".
Your ideas are young and some are hard for many of us to understand, thats ok...they are yours and we don't need to understand. They will change as you mature and learn.
I do hope that one day you learn and accept that dogs are dogs. I feel they can be a member of your family and something you cherish more than words can ever explain but they should not replace or be confused with human beings.

I think you need to find a strong knowledgeable mentor who is accessible to you on a regular basis. It doesn't have to be a GSD breeder, it could be a professional trainer. It could be a Labrador breeder, just someone who is willing to share their knowledge with you.

 

My dog Gus has been a new chapter in my life, one filled with new training techniques that have had me saying "omg why didn't I try this or research it years ago".

Hmmmm... like the pushing on his tongue with your thumb to get him to release the ball trick?

 

Really to me dogs don't have personalities as much as different sets of behaviours.

You nor I can't even begin to understand the complexity of thier behaviours. It takes alot of experience with different dogs to begin to understand.

If I'm reading you, you're implying dogs should be free to do as they want at all times. This is a dangerous philosophy for the owner and the dog.

My philosophy is to train your dog and have them obedient for your safety and thiers. GSD's need the training. It fills a necessity. It gives them a direction. They will be just as happy trained as untrained.

If you lived with my dog for about one day, trust me, you would have a much different outlook. A confident, fearless GSD with no training is like having a firearm without a saftey. It's just a matter time before an accident occurs.

So, what do you do with your dog if a situation like dropping an open bottle of pills on the floor happens? Since your dog has not went through any formal training, I guess he would gobble up as many pills as possible as he has never been trained to "leave it". ???????

Or, a young relative comes to visit and your untrained dog knocks them to the floor and they get injured because your dog has not been taught to keep four on the floor?????

Then there is always the times we all are out on a walk and a stranger approaches or a jogger runs by in close proxcimity and your dog lunges and either playbites or grabs ahold of them? All because they have not been taught proper obedience.?????

Really the word "personalities" is a loose term to use when it comes to dogs behaviours. Different dogs have different temperments, thresholds, nerves ect. Better train your dog, because in the end, it's your dog who will pay the ultimate price with thier lives because you decided not to train them. That is doing them more a disfavor than making them sit, lay or staying down.

 

Dogs are NOT self aware. They do not have a concept of self.

How do you know this?

((Dolphins, chimps, elephants and gorillas ARE self aware. Those animals see themselves in a mirror and understand they are looking at a reflection.))

A dog attacks or tries to play it.

Not in my experience. I've seen dogs looking at their reflection in the mirror. Does that mean they are self aware, i don't know. How to prove an animal is self aware is difficult i would think.

A dog is a dog is a dog. Ask my dog.

 

My philosophy is dogs don't need to be "dominated" or "shown who's boss" they do need to be trained and taught your 'house rules', but domination is not necessary to have a well behaved dog who responds and does what you ask.
Dogs don't work just because they "respect" you, they work for you because it is either rewarding to do so, or there are unpleasant consequences for not doing so, or both. It's up to the dog's owner to decide what methods to focus on and whether your dog is going to be working to avoid the consequences for not doing so or because it's more rewarding to work for you or both, and/or to what extent.

 

well said.

>>>>> My philosophy is dogs don't need to be "dominated" or "shown who's boss" they do need to be trained and taught your 'house rules', but domination is not necessary to have a well behaved dog who responds and does what you ask.<<<<<



Dogs don't work just because they "respect" you, they work for you because it is either rewarding to do so, or there are unpleasant consequences for not doing so, or both. It's up to the dog's owner to decide what methods to focus on and whether your dog is going to be working to avoid the consequences for not doing so or because it's more rewarding to work for you or both, and/or to what extent.

 

Lol priceless.. The OP, and that people are taking his junk seriously.

 

My philosophy is every dog like humans have their own individual. Respect them for that and be kind. Dogs will realize this and in return respect you and be really happy. Also dogs accept who we are so in return we should accept who they are. Trust me if they are not allowed to be who they are then anybody will miss out. I hate it when people tell me to shut up when I'm jumping around. Not going to disguise myself as a lazy couch potato unenthusiastic person. Same goes for dogs who are also persons. Dog are my friends, they are not property.

Will go back and read through, but you're wrong. Dogs are property. They are property in the law. And I own my dogs. I am not their guardian, and while I love them very much, they are neither my children nor my friends.

I do not have children, but if I did, I would be preparing them for the future, where they will act responsibly on their own, and provide for themselves and not need me. This is NOT what I do with dogs.

As for friends, I respect dogs for the beautiful individuals they are, but I do not tell my friends what to do, I am not responsible for my friends' actions, nor for everything they need to survive. Maybe they are friends of a sort, but they belong to me. I am totally responsible for them, for their behavior, forever.

Dogs are pets. Pets are property, but like livestock they are living beings. They CANNOT exist in the human world without a human being responsible for them. They may go back into the wild and manage to survive after a fashion as a stray scavenger for a while. But a dog is a dog. And our rights with respect to our animals are strengthened when the dog falls under property/ownership.

I think that you are right that dogs are individuals with different strengths, weaknesses, areas that they excel and enjoy, and areas that they really do not sparkle in. During training and bonding we can learn what things our dogs will be good at. And to be truly a dog-person, we will be able to set aside our own aspirations if our dog doesn fit in that mold. And we will be able to assess our dogs and find the avenues to travel down with them.

 

@selzer

You are wrong yourself. Just agree to disagree. Just because of a silly law doesn't make it true that dogs are in reality property. Btw I feel sorry for your dogs they won't love you as nearly as much since you think of them as property. In the open eyes reality world dogs are as same value as a human. Between a dog and a human child hanging off a cliff or in some hostage situation or fire I would go for the dog and the human child behind if that was the only option. The world was flat, the majority thought that was right. Minority of humans knew it was round and nobody believed them. Be open minded being wrong selzer. I love dogs more than humans. Nothing personal, however care for them as much as I do my High School friends, except for family. Dogs have eyes, ears, tongues, teeth, nails, chest, legs, back, private parts, walk, run, make noise, jump, love and care like we do, make babies like we do, etc. Honestly think dogs have a stronger love and care than humans do.