I had signed on with Bark Busters. I was pleased with the first two visits but am left wondering if I am too much of a "softie" and a failure at being the "Alpha" in certain ways orare my feelings about some training method or assessments of myself or my dog are correct or not. Before I get into that, I would like your unbiased opinions on what you really think, pro or con about the Bark Buster methods.:help:
GSDMUM
Personally, not a fan. They are too heavy handed for me and I am not a subscriber to Alpha non-sense. I think there are much better ways to have a respectful relationship with your dog than to constantly try and show them who's boss.
I am also a big proponent of going with your gut. If it doesn't feel right, it usually isn't.
I am also a big proponent of going with your gut. If it doesn't feel right, it usually isn't.
I met a Bark Busters owner/trainer a couple of years ago at an event. He seemed like a nice enough guy, I did not get any info about training methods. I did, however, hear about their business model a bit. From what I gather they seem to want to sell people on these big packages, or even lifetime training things, but have tracked it and learned that a huge percentage of the people use on average 3 lessons, sometimes up to 5 lessons and then never use the rest. So their goal is to sell at somewhat of a discount and then assume they won't actually have to do all that training. So their per lesson rate is actually pretty high if you base it on what really gets used.
The guy was telling me this as a "fellow" trainer, I guess assuming that we get the same rate of use.
I don't like the fact that you can get a trainer who has put out a shingle based on their training criteria, a short course and away you go. Some of the franchise owners have years of experience, while some just took their course. It's a crap shoot I guess.
The guy was telling me this as a "fellow" trainer, I guess assuming that we get the same rate of use.
I don't like the fact that you can get a trainer who has put out a shingle based on their training criteria, a short course and away you go. Some of the franchise owners have years of experience, while some just took their course. It's a crap shoot I guess.
Don't like them.... AT ALL!!!!!!! Personally, I want my trainer to be invested in the dog and actually care not worried about some "scheme" Also, we have called one out a long time ago (before knowing about them) and the idiot kept baaaaa'ing like a sheep at the dog as a form of correction. Tehn he would throw things on the floor to scare the dog and use them as "corrections" just a bunch of stupid stuff thankfully I had a pretty solid dog that just looked at him like he was crazy then looked at me like "mom do I have to" we asked the guy to leave after that. Also, as Jamie said, they are big into "everything is an alpha issue" which drives me nuts. If my dog didn't sit it was because he was declaring himself alpha, if the dog didn't heel it's because he was trying to be alpha and didn't know his place etc... They may have a few good trainers among them however for the most part have not been pleased with what I've seen and heard.
Don't like them....AT ALL!!! See the vans emblazoned with logo and promotion zooming around , strut around like some puffed up experts - but some have zero experience in training and rely on a handbook with instructions . Very mechanical , poor timing. They are people who bought in to the franchise scheme.
It is not about isolated barking but the overall relation and obedience that the dog has.
Carmen
It is not about isolated barking but the overall relation and obedience that the dog has.
Carmen
Okay, I appreciate all of your input. I have a few more questions. I was told and I disagree with these (from BB's):
1. Your dog is hiding under the table because he respects me. Iy is not fear but a sign of respect. Really? I see dogs being trained very strictly but positively and they never hide, they look up with strong attention to the trainer or owner and are happy, wide open mouth, tongue hanging out, ears erect.
2.If one aspect of Alpha behavior is not done my the owner, the whole training can collapse. Really? I choose to have one aspect very lenient as it works best for ME.
3. Is letting a curse word out at your puppy by the trainer, calling it a nasty name, being positive. in positive training. Where is the patience by the trainer.
4. Because I admitted to having a hard time with one aspect of training ( see #2), I was told that I was spoiled the dog and that I will never be able to train him in any of it, that I was the problem. What a vote of confidence.
This trainer started out sweet and helpful but we are only a few lessons in and although I didn't train my pup as much as I could have this week due to illness (I did do many of the exercises but not to the best standards) that I was wasting her time.
The trainer interjected a few misplaced compliments after a number of bad comments as if trying to repair what he said.
As I am locked in ( no they will not refund, the main office refuses it to everyone) and no other trainer is in the area), I am not throwing my money away but we are going to have a sit down discussion with the trainer with all of our concerns and boundaries that should never be crossed again.
I researched far and wide for trainers to handle fear agression and other issues not handled in other classes and this seemed to be the best option with great reviews from our area. I was happy with the first few sessions but darn, I am steaming.
1. Your dog is hiding under the table because he respects me. Iy is not fear but a sign of respect. Really? I see dogs being trained very strictly but positively and they never hide, they look up with strong attention to the trainer or owner and are happy, wide open mouth, tongue hanging out, ears erect.
2.If one aspect of Alpha behavior is not done my the owner, the whole training can collapse. Really? I choose to have one aspect very lenient as it works best for ME.
3. Is letting a curse word out at your puppy by the trainer, calling it a nasty name, being positive. in positive training. Where is the patience by the trainer.
4. Because I admitted to having a hard time with one aspect of training ( see #2), I was told that I was spoiled the dog and that I will never be able to train him in any of it, that I was the problem. What a vote of confidence.
This trainer started out sweet and helpful but we are only a few lessons in and although I didn't train my pup as much as I could have this week due to illness (I did do many of the exercises but not to the best standards) that I was wasting her time.
The trainer interjected a few misplaced compliments after a number of bad comments as if trying to repair what he said.
As I am locked in ( no they will not refund, the main office refuses it to everyone) and no other trainer is in the area), I am not throwing my money away but we are going to have a sit down discussion with the trainer with all of our concerns and boundaries that should never be crossed again.
I researched far and wide for trainers to handle fear agression and other issues not handled in other classes and this seemed to be the best option with great reviews from our area. I was happy with the first few sessions but darn, I am steaming.
OH no, they didn't.
Please report them to the Better Business Bureau.
They will refund your money.
Don't go there again.
There is worse things than NO training at all (professional) and this qualifies.
There's a ton of training vids on youtube. Please use them if you cannot find a training buddy or helper.
Please report them to the Better Business Bureau.
They will refund your money.
Don't go there again.
There is worse things than NO training at all (professional) and this qualifies.
There's a ton of training vids on youtube. Please use them if you cannot find a training buddy or helper.
just for the record if they had my fear aggressive dog (or any dog) hiding under the table from them heads would be rolling. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read up on training print out if you have to and sit down with them and give them the lecture. Let them know that no longer will you be using such harsh methods that this is the manner in which you will be training and they will NOT be doing these things to your dog and they are to be respectful to you and be professional. HOLD THEM TO IT! If they choose not to come back then great they stopped training and owe you your money back if they don't small claims court them for breach of contract. Do not allow them to screw up your dog and if its already fear aggressive your dog is going to get much worse with these methods you need to work on confidence not scaring the heck out of the dog.
This person knows nothing about dog behavior and training. You're not only wasting your time with him, you've wasted your money. I agree - report to the Better Business Bureau.
BBB will mediate and you may well get your refund.
If they refuse still, at least you've saved your dog from the idiot and there's now a complaint on file against their business.
If they refuse still, at least you've saved your dog from the idiot and there's now a complaint on file against their business.
You mean the training place?
I complained to BBB a few yrs. ago just before a local furniture company went out of business and we successfully got our money back. The company was going under badly and they lied to us about a shipment (our chairs were in), so we raised the complaint. Luckily we got out when we did.
They stiffed a lot of people when they went out of business and I don't know if those people got their money back.
I complained to BBB a few yrs. ago just before a local furniture company went out of business and we successfully got our money back. The company was going under badly and they lied to us about a shipment (our chairs were in), so we raised the complaint. Luckily we got out when we did.
They stiffed a lot of people when they went out of business and I don't know if those people got their money back.
Well they helped us settle the matter where we paid for two chairs and never got them, around $600 I think it was.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read up on training print out if you have to and sit down with them and give them the lecture. Let them know that no longer will you be using such harsh methods that this is the manner in which you will be training and they will NOT be doing these things to your dog and they are to be respectful to you and be professional. HOLD THEM TO IT! If they choose not to come back then great they stopped training and owe you your money back if they don't small claims court them for breach of contract. Do not allow them to screw up your dog and if its already fear aggressive your dog is going to get much worse with these methods you need to work on confidence not scaring the heck out of the dog.[/QUOTE]
I will read the training print out, Thanks. You are absolutely right about building confidence and that is not what is happening with her under a table.
I will read the training print out, Thanks. You are absolutely right about building confidence and that is not what is happening with her under a table.
We do work with fear/aggression and social issues on a daily basis, but we are probably a bit far for you (depends I guess on your schedule). Let me do some checking around, I seem to recall a trainer in your vicinity that I've heard good things about, just need to check my bookmarks.
bark busters
Ok I guess Im going against the grain here, Im thinking bark buster trainers must be diffrant in diffrant areas.
Im using bark busters, Bandit came along way with what they taught me.
hes only been here once so far but what he taught me that is working for me is,,,
Bandit doesnt chase the cats, wants to still but in time he will totaly ignore them.
I had a repair man come and at first bandit went crazy barking, growling and so on, told him to leave it, and he went and sat on the couch! I was amazed.
the trainer isnt harsh or mean. he gets there attention and taught me how to communicate what i want with bandit, everythings not perfect yet but so far its good, the trainer used to train militery dogs. He doesnt beleive in pain or aggressive training, so maybe trainers very in state to state,
Ok I guess Im going against the grain here, Im thinking bark buster trainers must be diffrant in diffrant areas.
Im using bark busters, Bandit came along way with what they taught me.
hes only been here once so far but what he taught me that is working for me is,,,
Bandit doesnt chase the cats, wants to still but in time he will totaly ignore them.
I had a repair man come and at first bandit went crazy barking, growling and so on, told him to leave it, and he went and sat on the couch! I was amazed.
the trainer isnt harsh or mean. he gets there attention and taught me how to communicate what i want with bandit, everythings not perfect yet but so far its good, the trainer used to train militery dogs. He doesnt beleive in pain or aggressive training, so maybe trainers very in state to state,
Never heard of BB myself?? Personally I would write the dollars spent, up as a loss and chalk it up to a hard lesson learned!
If uncontrolled barking is a serious problem?? Get a quality Bark Collar and put it on the dog, dog will teach it self! Not the sented thing an electronic bark collar is what you need!
If you can't controll the "fence fighting" with a 'NO" then the dog can't be allowed into "that" area unsupervised! Leashed only until that situation can be controlled, period! As long as that behaviour is "allowed" to continue...your wasting your time!
My standard links can be found here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html
Unfortunately "apparently" The who pets thing goes to far, the first part the actual walks is the only part I recommend...'Keep people out of your dog space" that part is the same advise given in the fearful dog blog!
In essence the walks are how show your dog you have there back, they can trust "you!"
These will also help:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/6818801-post4.html
You have to live with this dog BB does not! Weight that into your descison making...good luck!
If uncontrolled barking is a serious problem?? Get a quality Bark Collar and put it on the dog, dog will teach it self! Not the sented thing an electronic bark collar is what you need!
If you can't controll the "fence fighting" with a 'NO" then the dog can't be allowed into "that" area unsupervised! Leashed only until that situation can be controlled, period! As long as that behaviour is "allowed" to continue...your wasting your time!
My standard links can be found here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html
Unfortunately "apparently" The who pets thing goes to far, the first part the actual walks is the only part I recommend...'Keep people out of your dog space" that part is the same advise given in the fearful dog blog!
In essence the walks are how show your dog you have there back, they can trust "you!"
These will also help:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/6818801-post4.html
You have to live with this dog BB does not! Weight that into your descison making...good luck!
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