Sorry, I don't understand. "Our trainer has got this poor guy on rails" What does this mean?
What's happening to make your little guy unhappy?

 

Rails means like.. he has no choice to move even a little bit or deviate from a path that is preordained for him.

It's supposed to be a three day "get his focus back" and get him fizzing to be around us. 3x5-10 minute training sessions a day. That's it. All NILIF. No Kong in crate. 4x exposure walks a week. Toilet break in night but that's it.

He's digging all of a sudden and chasing his tail. He's more into the training but I feel it's more NILIF than anything else and actually just time.

I'm not really sure.. I honestly just think he wants to be right next to us. He never whines out of crate. We've had him three weeks.

I feel like if we are watching him or at least are outside and can be with him he shouls be out of his crate.

How can he possibly form a bond with us or see the world and be exposed if all he's seeing is 30 minutes a day?

Sorry but I'm quite upset. I'm so perplexed by this trainer as the respected breeder recommended her and I'm all for boundaries and structure but he's poohed his crate twice now in 24 hours and I feel like there is some validity to what this trainer is saying but also, it's just too hard.

I need a hug haha

 

Ask a moderator.

 

Hug!!!! Your puppy is 11 weeks approximately isn't he? Poor baby, he needs a hug too. You both are supposed to be having fun. Have a look at what David Winners is doing with his puppy Valor, and check out Stonnie Dennis on youtube.

Carmspack puppy inbound!!!

Tentative name is Valor

www.germanshepherds.com

 

Cheers bro.
I think I'm going to emulate a lot of what David is doing, yeah.

I can actually put up with significant amounts of stress and discomfort but I just.. it makes me so triggered.

I got a GSD to have a shadow.

 

Gsd pups are a lot of fun! Especially in the summer get rid of your trainer and enjoy your pup!

 

It's winter here. It hasn't stopped raining for days.
I actually enjoy the crazy chaos with him but the whining 😭😭😭

 

Whining in the crate? Where is the crate? I would imagine if you spend more the 30 minutes a day with your pup you might see that decrease. Pups need exercise and stimulation 30 minutes outside the crate a day is cruel. Google crate games. I had two crates one in the bedroom next to the bed and one downstairs. Make sure the crate is large enough to for the pup.

 

Lounge. I'm working on the couch next to him while he's in the crate a lot of the time.
30" crate but it looks low. We will have him in 48" with divider tomorrow.
We did a lot of crate games with him - he isn't resistant to going in it. He will sleep and everything but I agree.

We were spending substantially more time with him before and less issues but less engagement. I think we just need to marry a few things up.

Is this a common thing? Where people restrict their pups/dogs to crates to build frustration that looks like "drive?"

 

I think your instincts are right on the money! Your trainer isn't "technically" wrong, but job one with a young puppy is forging a connection! Forget NILIF, forget Rails, spend time with your puppy and connect on a deeper level.

It's difficult to explain, but consider that you're trying to connect/communicate with an animal of an entirely different species. He doesn't have a language, **** he doesn't have a clue what those noises you make are all about. So connect mentally, or psychically, or subliminally. Whatever you want to call it, spend the time and make that connection! Care enough to take the time, you'll feel it when it happens.

Afterward, everything you do with your puppy will be so much easier! But understand, it's as much on you to "learn your dog" as it is on him to learn you!

Anyway, hope that helps a bit... Good Luck!

 

No it’s not common. I would certainly hope not. A 30 inch crate is to small. A crate for a large to extra large dog with adjustable panel is ideal and needed Frozen Kong’s help with teething also keep the brain busy while in the crate make it enjoyable. What’s this “trainers” name?

 

Well, we have a 30" crate because he's 11 weeks old. Transfer to 48" tomorrow as 30" seems too low.

I probably shouldn't be sharing her details.

 

I believe this deprivation style puppy rearing is more common in the sport world. Forgive me if I don’t remember, but what are your goals with this dog?

I used NIFL for about the first year with my pup. I always had food with me and was able to mark behavior I liked. That got me the shadow I wanted and really nice automatic behavior/positioning that I needed.
This trainer probably has a lot of experience, but I think you can build engagement by being the best thing in your dogs life rather than being the only thing. I crated when I couldn’t watch my pup, before and after training sessions and during scheduled nap times.

Good luck!

 

I believe this deprivation style puppy rearing is more common in the sport world. Forgive me if I don’t remember, but what are your goals with this dog?

I used NIFL for about the first year with my pup. I always had food with me and was able to mark behavior I liked. That got me the shadow I wanted and really nice automatic behavior/positioning that I needed.
This trainer probably has a lot of experience, but I think you can build engagement by being the best thing in your dogs life rather than being the only thing. I crated when I couldn’t watch my pup, before and after training sessions and during scheduled nap times.

Good luck!

this is what i was thinking too, but couldn’t recall if i was mixing up new members. OP was this the dog you were hoping to do sport or protection work with?
honestly, the way i look at it, you’re a first time gsd owner and this dog has been your dream for 20yrs... raise him as a family member first and if you decide to dabble in sport or something later, do so. sure there is foundation work you could/should be doing now if that was your primary goal for him but it sounds like you mainly want a companion to hang with and play with and explore the world with. do that. the amount of whining doesn’t sound normal, nor does the level of frustration that either of you are experiencing. there will be growing pains but having a puppy should be fun.

 

Maybe he is whining so much because 1) he has to do his business and 2) he is radically underexercised which creates tons of frustration and anxiety AND is horrible / damaging especially for growing bones and joints.

 

I do more "training" by 9am than 30 minutes.

Yes, Valor will be a sport dog, but he's my partner first and foremost. He needs to know what daily life is. In my case, that means basically hanging out with me all day and night. He may go in a crate for a few hours here and there when no one is home, but he is a family member that spends his days and nights with the family.

 

Is this a common thing? Where people restrict their pups/dogs to crates to build frustration that looks like "drive?"

No. No it's not....
It's common to crate young pups when you are not actively engaged with them and when they need to sleep to aid in both crate training and house proofing/training. But you should be actively engaged with them for hours and hours per day, or certainly with them in your sight as you are able.

And I started my last pup in a 48" crate (always 40" previously). They have never, not even once soiled in the crate. If you're pup has done it twice in one day, you're definitely not crating appropriately and could create further house proofing issues.

There's zero reason for a pup to whine for hours on end to your distraction. I'm frustrated for you to hear of this situation

 

I kept my puppy in the crate too much and I feel guilty now that I’m a more matured gsd owner. I’d keep him out of the crate as much as possible. Or atleast help him love the crate. My dog actually enjoys the crate and goes in it by himself. But I’d keep him out as much as humanly possible. I only crate my dog when I’m leaving the house and that’s really just for his own protection so I don’t come home finding him eating bleach or something

 

I feel a lot better about being able to have him out a lot.

Thankfully, it's only been two days of the "hard rules" but that was enough.

I'll be asking a lot more questioms here.

Will update more later. Cheers guys Xoxoxoxo

 

A lot of people do things to enhance drive but doing things so as not to suppress drive can also be very effective.

 

“He's digging all of a sudden and chasing his tail.”

This is all I needed to read. You gut instinct is right and you have great responses that validate how you feel and will get back on track to a good relationship with your pup. Get your pup and go have some fun.

That tail chasing was a definite sign that things were wrong.

You’re a good owner and good advocator.

 

Thanks so much for the kind words. I was just trying to do what was best for him and get his attention onto us.

How someone could run a dog that way for even a month is beyond me.

Instead of doing more research and watching more Stonnie/Leerburg/Kroyer etc videos in the final weeks leading up to our puppy I ended up painting the house to get the place ready to start a family. I was totally cooked and didn't have time so I panicked and got a trainer. Have ended up relying far too much on her.

He's on raw today and out when we're out. Will post a lot more here guys - I'm kind of emotional now 😂

I want to do some sport but at what cost, hey?

✌

 

IMO A sport, any sport should always compliment and enhance the partnership. We did NoseWorks had a blast. Always fun even when I dq’d in the last trial.still came out feeling like my boy is a champ cause ya know what, he is ;-).

You got this.

 

Am I understanding this correctly?
The dog is in the crate all the time except for three 5 to 10 minute training sessions a day?
And the dog is 11 weeks old?

 

Am I understanding this correctly?
The dog is in the crate all the time except for three 5 to 10 minute training sessions a day?
And the dog is 11 weeks old?

It was. I just told the trainer this morning that I'm not doing it and I don't care and that it was killing us both inside. She said that's all good and respected it so that's great.

We are having him out far more often/longer now and continue exposing him to this wonderful world. Off to see some sheep and horses and the train station today.

💕💕💕

 

In my sport, you have 8 dogs off leash in the ring at the same time, plus at least 12 humans, sometimes more. Dogs are running and barking, people are running and yelling, sometimes there's loud music. At outdoor tournaments in public parks, there are also usually spectators standing right next to the ring. The crating area is near the ring, where all the dogs not currently racing will be, some of which are also barking with excitement. If you don't have your dog's complete focus and attention in that kind of situation it can be a problem, lol. That's why we do as much with them from as young an age as possible, taking them new places and playing tug, desensitizing them to sights, sounds, and general chaos. Leaving them in a crate most of the time and only bringing them out for short training sessions a couple times a day just won't cut it if you want/need to build that kind of willing and enthusiastic engagement.

 

you need to explore more trainers. Once you find one that fits your needs and expectations, then you can stay with the program longer. But listen to podcasts like The Canine Paradigm and read blogs over on The Collared Scholar and check out things like GRC dogsports. And for the next few weeks let your puppy be a puppy, Keep an eye on him. for the first few weeks my pups were crated or tethered to me.
My dogs give me focus because they enjoy what happens when they do. Working with me is pleasant not because it is the only thing that lights up their life but one of the better things in their life.

 

Pic of the boy getting some room to be a munter 😂👍

 

We had trouble with Duke crying when we first got him until we told Alexa to turn on white noise at night. Peace and quiet! It may take a few tries with Alexa - she likes music from a group called White Noise but once you find it, it seems to soothe pup. Sounds a little like rain.

 

Sounds nice 💕 He doesn't cry at night! Just during the day.

And there are only bandaid solutions to poor socialization that didn't take place during the allotted window.

So far he has been to:

Construction site.
Busy beaches with people around and dogs around.
Been in water/sea.
Been in native broadleaf forest.
Been around.homeless.
Playgrounds and stuff.
Town centre streets.

He's definitely been out quite a bit but still not as much ws some of you but this week I'm taking him through the local schools at lunchtime, to pet store, to hardware store, airport and the CBD/university campus and other spots.

He gonz be so stable 🐕

 

Have you read the early socialization thread?

 

You got it.

Another thing to work on, particularly in your case, is rewarding engagement.

 

I agree. The trainer seems to think we have a relatively independent pup - he does seem this way.

Apart from his "formal" training we are going to pay him for checking in with us when we're out doing stuff.

Presumably this creates a pattern of thinking in pupdog that is proactive/hey, I can chew this stick or hump this mandarin tree but everytime I go over to this big grumpy owner of mine he gives me a TREAT AND A TUG AND A CUDDLE AND HOLY COW.

 

i’m just saying, be reasonable. your post reads as if you got the green light and are now running out to make up for lost time.

distance and engagement are your friends.

learn how to read dog body language and recognize the signs of your puppy being tired or uncomfortable or fearful or overwhelmed. have a plan as to how you’ll react (tip: act but don’t react) should one of these things crop up.

 

I find not reacting pivotal.