This is just from what I can find on them. Looks like one of these pet type breeders "Old Fashioned", "Straight Back", "Large bones" breeding more for size and mixing lines. I don't see any pedigrees, no hip/elbow ratings, nothing showing they do anything to prove the dogs are breedworthy. These are all marketing phrases used to target people that are not real knowledgeable about the breed. They are not as bad as some I've seen like this, but they would be a pass for me.

Prices range from $2,000-$3,500! Why such a range? You can get a nice well bred GSD for $2,500ish from a reputable breeder that tests their dogs & does something with them.

Just an fyi there is no such thing as an Old Fashioned GSD. GSDs are supposed to have some rear angulation, the stack pose exaggerates the rear angulation & when the dog is standing with both back feet together they can look totally different. I just see a lot of catch phrases. They mention testing, but don't see what is done or anything specific.

 

Thank you so much this is really helpful. I was also worried about how little information she lists on her website, but when I spoke to her she said she does PennHip and her dogs have to pass a complete embark panel, and she checks elbows, etc -- it sounded good, but the closer I get to placing a deposit, the more wary I feel, for the exact reasons you mentioned. And It's hard to believe someone has been in the business 30 years and isn't known by the community. I like so much about her breeding practices, but that's all based solely on her word... I had kind of assumed the "old fashioned" thing was a personal choice on her part, some part of her branding or something, but you're right that it's a buzzword that doesn't really mean anything... Dang, I guess I'll keep looking, better to go with a breeder I'm 100% on anyway.

Thank you for being an objective eye!

 

Try to select a breeder on the quality of their dogs rather than location. We tend to want to buy close to home but sometimes there aren’t any in a convenient location.

 

Oh, wow, yes. I'm prioritizing location without realizing it. This is such a simple thing, I feel silly for not making sure I was doing this to begin with. Thank you so much.

 

I don't know the breeder, but there is a group of breeders that specifically breed large flatbacked"old fasioned GSD's. They are also bred for temperament. I got mine from Black magic GS and had 13 amazing years with him. I am getting a five YO from royal aire breeders to re home. I've had many GSD in my life but the specifically bred " Old Fashioned" has been the best and calmest GSD.

 

Not breed standard and there is no such thing as an Old Fashioned GSD. Sorta looks like a GSD, but not one per the standard.

 

If you go on google and research old fashioned German shepherds you will find Black magic , royal air, salhaus and others. All these breeders are interlinked and share studs to keep the line from being inbred, You will also notice there dogs only have around five litters in there lifetime, The puppies are all handled by people while they are very young and stay in homes. Introduced to other dogs and training early before being picked up. They are socialized very early. The adult dogs are around 120-140 pounds and 30 plus inches at the shoulder.

 

so more like an offshoot of the breed-standard GSD with its own kind of "breed standard" that's maintained by the people within that circle. really interesting, thank you for clarifying this!!

 

Hi @ghostbaby, I live in Maine and just put a deposit on their current Ember/Glock pairing. I've been following them on Facebook for years waiting for the time to be right, and it seems to me like they are an ethical breeder. She's been breeding for years, (Previously in Houlton, Maine I believe). She does guarantee hips and elbows and does embark testing on each dog before they are bred. She doesn't breed for overly large dogs, although she does have a couple of large ones. The females seem to be on the small side and the males seem to be the larger ones. There are many people who have gotten their dogs from her and continue to visit and put pictures on Facebook. She also does not have all of the breeders on the premises. She does co-owning, I believe mostly with the females. This allows all of the breeding dogs to have families and live normal lives. Then when it's time to breed them they come to her place, and go back home to their family afterward. When I visited, Ember was at her place, since she was going to be bred, and Embers owner was there visiting her. Hope this makes you feel better

 

That sounds more like a "Guardian home", they keep the breeding rights and take the female back for breeding and producing more puppies, without all the upkeep.

 

You can call it co-own or a guardian home, but it is a responsible breeding practice

 

Just know anyone that gets one of these type dogs you are not getting anything close to a GSD. I have met more of them than I care to talk about. Not one was anything close to the GSD breed standard. They might as well be a another breed.

 

There's obviously a market for these dogs as they've been breeding for 36 years and 6 generations. It's interesting that they choose to flaunt the departure from breed standard as some sort of advantage in order to breed larger dogs that buyers seem to want.

"What are Black Magic German Shepherds?
- Large. Oversized compared to the AKC standard. Not huge, just the way they were in the 70's."

I've never heard it said that GSD were bigger in the 70's but OK. "Never bred for sloped hips" is another curious turn of phrase that appeals to buyers that know GSD are susceptible to dysplasia so they're using this wording for a reason.

Breeding 90-100 males would be one thing but promoting 120 pound males and 100+ pound females is a giant red flag. Friendly and "our dogs are fairly soft, low drive" ....

And this:
"Q. Is it recommended to get two puppies at a time, or wait till one is grown?
A. We always, always keep two pups at a time. Highly recommended unless you have an older dog also."

Well, thank goodness they're low drive. Speechless....

 

WOW, there are so many Red Flags...If you want a GSD with the temperament of a Golden, just get a Golden, and don't support people calling themselves breeders, that are doing nothing positive for the breed.

 

It's like they are the opposite of what a GSD is supposed to be & opposite advise from trainers that know the breed. All this appeals to people with little knowledge of the breed & just goes to confuse those trying to learn.

This is just for reference what the breed standard calls for in size. BTW, this was the same breed standard in the 70's so not sure what the heck they are talking about dogs were bigger in the 70's. Yes, there have been outliers in size, but that has never been a trait to breed for.

Males at adulthood.
24-26" tall at the withers
66-88lbs

Females at adulthood.
22-24" tall at the withers.
50-70lbs.

GSDs are not supposed to be soft, not low drive, not 100+ pounds, not friendly to all, yes aloof & neutral to strangers & should be neutral to strange dogs.

No 120lb dog will be able to work all day & how quickly will that body break down, though I doubt any will be doing that since they have no working drives. GSDs are supposed to be agile & athletic. Low drive is also harder to train. It's just sad to those of us the love the breed as the GSD is supposed to be a working dog. When those traits are abandoned we no longer have the strong, noble breed that brought many of us to it in the first place.

 

It may be similar. I was offered to co-own and she said that she would want the female on some supplements that she would provide and pay for. I decided to get a male, so didn’t go that route

 

This breeder only puts out two litters a year, I dont see that as large scale commercial breeding. I can see how you could think that, but for Vom Stevens it isn’t applicable

 

This breeder has "co-owners of females throughout the country" which are all producing litters according to their website. You may be thinking that they have only one or two litters in their own personal kennel.They have contracts with the co-owners to receive a percentage of $.It's a fact not a personal opinion.

 

 

It doesn't say "all over the country" on that page.I did see it possibly on their FB.Anyway, whomever is interested in this or any breeder it's not hard to dig up facts about the breeder,titles,health testing, pedigrees, and so on.The adorable puppy pictures can hypnotize you;-)