I have done this blood work on my dog....the EPI was negative. Her b12 was the lowest number possible in the still normal range if that makes sense. She is on b12 injections now.

 

Does the vet do her injections or do you give them? Are the injections going to be long term thing for you both now or just until her condition improves?

 

I do them at home. Sub q injections on a dog are really easy if the dog cooperates, mine will let me do it while she just lays on the couch. Barring that if you have someone who can restrain the dog.

Her instructions were once a week for 6 weeks then once every other week for 6 more doses, past that I don't know, I didn't ask.

 

@Thecowboysgirl thank you <3

 

OR... do we start with a CBC and go from there based on results? After reading and re-reading symptoms of both, I feel like we may need to take the next step with the vet in ruling this out as Ghost's GI issues continue.

I've been dealing with mysterious GI issues in my dog as well and I had CBC, TLI, Cobalamin and Folate tests done... All normal except now that Thecowboysgirl mentions it, my dog is also on the low end of normal. I may look into that...

Anyway the TLI test should tell you if your dog has EPI. If I remember correctly I paid $330 for what Idexx calls Spec cPL, TLI, Cobalamin, and Folate together. The CBC was an additional $180 but I would definitely have that done if you haven't had routine blood work checked out yet.

What are your pup's symptoms? I may have missed the thread if you have already posted about it, sorry!

 

@Liffey thank you for the test and cost info.

Ghost is 4 1/2 months old and she has had these same recurring symptoms ever since we brought her home, which include:
- diarrhea that consistently returns every 2-4 days
- poop is of "pudding" or "cowpie" consistency and is yellowish and foul-smelling(though what poop doesn't smell foul :rofl
- poop sometimes appears greasy or oily or sometimes appears to have a bit of mucous/slime
- possible PICA - sticks, dirt/mud/clumps of grass, pinecones, pine needles, chew toys/Nyla bones, cloth/bedding(we no longer leave her alone with clothor stuffed toys)
- flatulence/gassy
- coprophagia - thought this might just be a 'puppy' phase thing but she will try to eat it every time if we aren't quick to pick it up out of the yard

Vet feels she is "thriving" and she is not actively losing weight - which I feel is a good sign for it NOT being EPI. But peace of mind simply won't let me rule it out because of that.

 

I would just get the TLI test and just rule it out. If she has it, you know what to do next - if she doesn't, you know more info about her in general and you can start working on other possibilities. There is some good advice about diet and giardia in the other posts here (GypsyGhost)

It sounds like you have been keeping very detailed notes. I do the same thing but have not figured out a pattern... In any case, it's a lot easier to go back through notes rather than trying to remember what her poop was like on what day. I have an album on my phone that's all pictures of my dog's poop and vomit. Awesome right!?! :grin2:

 

Honestly, that sounds a lot like giardia. I would have her tested for that, too. Ask for the ELISA test, as it's often missed on a regular fecal. My boy had giardia when he was a puppy, then severe mystery GI problems for about another year until we finally found a commercial raw food that he does really well on. In that time, we tested him for EPI and pretty much everything else under the sun. He was negative for everything, and luckily he seems to be doing well now. It was simply a matter of finding the right food for him. I hope you are able to get definitive answers after further testing...

 

@GypsyGhost she has been tested for giardia twice, both negative. I believe they are testing her a third time today, so we will see. I agree the symptoms seem very similar, which is why in the beginning, we kept assuming it was most likely just a bad bug, giardia, coccidia, etc etc... however nothing has significantly changed with or without de-worming/antibiotics/probiotics. So I'm literally just going down my list of things to eliminate and EPI and SIBO still haven't been ruled out.

I presented my vet earlier today with 2 pages of notes and brainstorming thoughts, including the Fecal Scoring system "poop picture" with some notes on that page. When he called me earlier, we laughed together about it and I told him I wasn't trying to "VetMD" internet diagnose my dog - but that by reading and researching several sites I just keep coming back to the things I had on the list for us to continue to check off, one by one if necessary. He said he was proud that I was taking a true interest and not just dropping her off and picking her up without any thought process to it or questions. So I am heading there now to discuss more with him. Fingers crossed we can get this tackled.

 

@Liffey I have a "poop journal" on my phone also. LOL
How are you easing your dog's GI issues now that you had negatives on the blood work?

 

I switched him to canned food but that was mostly because he had very little appetite and canned food is enticing... I'm still working on it, honestly. I want to get him off canned because It's REALLY expensive. Right now he eats 4 cans a day and that's not even enough. He's 78lb and should be about 80. I add boiled white potato or sweet potato, and he eats a scrambled egg every so often. He's still on Baytril for another 10 days but he gets a probiotic in the morning. It's a work in progress. I want to feed him freeze-dried raw but I'm not sure how he'll handle it. I have a bag of Sojos waiting to try as soon as I get home from my parents' place for the weekend so I can let you know how he handles that. I just ordered Perfect Form from THK just in hopes that if he has IBD (which it's looking like) it will soothe his GI system.

He was doing great for 8 days and then had a day of not eating, lethargy, and loud tummy noises. But for whatever reason was much better the next day and didn't throw up or have diarrhea. I'm hoping it's just a matter of getting his diet right. I think that low-fat foods might help. Feel free to PM me if you want to bounce ideas around.

There is also a possibility that he ate a contaminated bag of Taste of the Wild. I met this guy randomly in a parking lot with his GSD and said his dog got sick from that food and was sick for 3 months (!!!) but is fine now. Since my dog never had a problem and then all of a sudden was really acutely sick for 2 weeks and lost 8lb but things seem to be tapering off now, 2 months later, it could have been that? There have been quite a few complaints about that food lately in the area where I live. Ugh... It's all I think about these days.

 

I was recently divorced and didn't have a lot of money.

My vet and I tested my dog for EPI by giving him enzymes. His feces improved and he started gaining weight immediately. Voila, EPI. 5 years later and he's still never been formally tested, but he gets enzymes with his food, his poops are solid, and he's in prime condition. If he happens to sneak something without enzymes, he gets diarrhea.

 

You have to fast the dog to get the epi bloodwork. I did have a dog that tested positive, and with the enzymes she gained back her weight. She was between 18 months and 2 and started dropping weight terribly. Before we got her diagnosed and back on track she was down to 49 pounds, and gaunt. But we got her back up to 70 with the enzymes. I took her in several times before we tried the epi test.

She was low on vitamin B and I gave those injections at home. Not hard. She did not have SIBO, though they go together I've heard. If the puppy is not losing weight, I would definitely try everything else first like giardia, and coccidia.

Also, some kibbles can be problematic. Some dogs do better on a mid-range kibble than they do on top shelf kibble. And vice-versa. You don't want to try to change too many times. When Dubya did not seem to do well on the kibble, I looked at the main incredients, this was years ago, and I went from chicken and corn, to lamb and rice. It worked for him. Dogs can be intolerant of meat sources as well as grains/fillers. What we did with Cujo was go with Duck and potato -- limited ingredient diet. Since his issue was not food-related, it did no good. But it is worth a try. The poop eating can be a bad habit, but it can also be the dog's body craving some nutrient that he is low on and senses undigested in the feces.

Good luck.

 

@Emoore I understand. We have already spent a pretty penny trying to figure out what's going on and I know there's more to come. What enzymes do you give?
@selzer we are starting her fast at 10pm. She goes in tomorrow morning. And as far as switching her food again, I feel like I might wait until we get the blood tests back - and I've decided on a good quality LID food someone from this forum suggested. Her giardia was negative again today for the third time. Sigh....

 

@Emoore I understand. We have already spent a pretty penny trying to figure out what's going on and I know there's more to come. What enzymes do you give?
.

I get the Pancreatin 6x from Enzyme Diane. I also switched him to grain-free because he seems to do better without grains, but even at the very beginning when he was getting food with grain, the enzymes made a difference.

 

@Liffey I remember all of that from following your other post last month - I really hope we can both get some answers soon!! Ghost is at the vet again today. Started her fast last night and she is having the blood work done this morning. I decided to go with the bundle and do the panel for both the EPI and the SIBO, figured might as well knock it out since she's already there and we are already spending the money. I am really hoping that everything is negative and maybe then we can just focus 100% on diet being the culprit next. There's got to be a light at the end of this poop tunnel!
I would love to hear how you and your boy end up liking THK and if Perfect form works out for you. I have been wanting to try it also, just focusing on these other things first. And I'm right there with ya... it's all I think about too.

 

My boy had several negative giardia tests, too... just something to think about. I ended up having to take a really, um... "fresh and symptomatic " sample in, and send it off for the ELISA test. Then of course we were given metronidazole and that just kind of made everything much worse for a while. That's another story for another time, haha. But if your puppy ever does test positive for giardia, I would strongly suggest Panacur instead of metro. We did seven days on, then seven days off, then another course of seven days to make sure all of it was gone. But I would just do what you're doing, get all the tests done, so you can have as many definitive answers as possible all at once. We did a diarrhea panel at the same time we did the EPI, folate/cobalamin tests just so we could have more answers.

I had to laugh because I too kept a poop diary for my boy. It was ridiculous. It got even more detailed once I switched to raw and started doing an elimination diet. I do not miss those days. I feel for you... it's incredibly frustrating.

I have used THK's Perfect Form on my boy with great success, fyi. I always have it on hand.

 

@GypsyGhost thank you so much for the suggestions! I feel like anyone else would think I'm a little too OCD about trying to figure it out or just plain weird. I can't imagine how I would be reacting to all this if she was actively losing a bunch of weight or lethargic or worse... The fact that she still seems happy, playful, and fairly healthy in all other aspects other than this constant diarrhea is the thing that I keep holding onto!! I love this dog and I am determined to get to the bottom of this.

 

Just updating this thread in case anyone else may have same issues and reads this.
Had the bloodwork done today and sent off for EPI/SIBO. Vet says we should get results by Monday or Tuesday at the latest.
Did another direct float - this is the third one and again, was negative for giardia and the rest. Whatever that "rare" tapeworm was had also cleared up.
Vet sent us home with Panacur - said that whipworm can be hard to detect on fecals. And though her diarrhea has never been bloody... since we are working on crossing things off our "list", that it couldn't hurt just to be sure.
We are going to continue the probiotics for now, and talk enzymes and whatever else after seeing the blood panel results.

 

Also just to add... when I picked her up yesterday vet tech said she did have a slightly formed poop but very soft. Then when I picked her up today she told me she had the pudding poop diarrhea twice. So at least they have witnessed it too... hoping we can figure this out soon.

 

@Emoore thanks!! When I was searching and reading all the different poop threads there was one way back where someone mentioned Enzyme Diane and I bookmarked it! Keeping that in mind.

 

I know this is a bit of an older thread but I am going through a similar situation with my Sherman. Had him tested for EPI, B12, folate. All are within normal ranges but other than the folate, values are on the low normal side. Stool sample also tested negative for parasites. Vet suggested B12 injections and Tylan for now which I will do. Also started over the counter plant enzyme/probiotic. He has been on Hills Prescription I/D for a week and I guess I will continue that for now.

How did everything turn out? EPI? Or something else?

 

this was a difficult case - but we did it !
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/689153-hallelujah-diarrhea-disappeared.html

 

Enzymediane.com is by far the best place to get your enzymes. I get the pancreatine 8x for my girl. EPI4DOGS.COM is a great place to learn about EPI. Good luck