Well, it is possible. My older dogs teach the puppy some bad manners.

Puppies always look up to the older dogs, but my "shepherds" also look up to me. Herding dogs are nice that way. I believe they have a stronger relationship with their owners than other types. I like how my new puppy has to find me if I don't go check on him often enough.

My dogs don't "demand", but when they want something, they can be persistent.

 

Is there anywhere nearby that you can get into some obedience classes with your current dog? That way you can learn to teach your dog and the two of you will learn together. It's generally a bad idea to get a second dog if you're having obedience problems with the first.

 

Never thought of it this way... good idea. The closest nearby is 70-100 kms.

 

Welcome jackshepard. That's really very nice of you to adopt the stray dog. Emoore made a good suggestion with the obedience classes. 70-100 km is far but perhaps you can take 2 or 3 lessons at one time.
The big advantage is you learn to train a dog, so when you get your GSD puppy, you already know how to train. There are also dog training DVDs that you can buy on the Internet, do a google search. Or you can ask this board for recommendations.
For the GSD to be a guard dog, you don't really need special training. What you should expect from the dog is to bark if any intruders come into your property without your permission. That's all. Don't expect the dog to bite people because your legal and financial liability will be higher and your dog can be killed. As long as you have a good relationship with your dog and he feels you are his family, GSDs are naturally protective of their territory. Find a good breeder and ask for a dog with very solid nerves.

 

Jackshepherd,
While it is true that most GSD's are naturally protective, for one to be truly effective at protecting the home you may need to have him trained by a professional. BUT, be very sure that is what you want and need. For most of us, the natural deterent of a GSD barking is more than sufficient w/o the added liability and expense of a trained protection dog. However, be very careful of picking a puppy - many many GSD's today would not have the proper temperament for this job. Make sure you select a suitable puppy - many on this forum may be able to help you with where to look and even some good breeders to contact.

 

may i ask why you want a gaurd dog?.

 

I understand... maybe I don't need a guard dog, I know GSD are very intelligent and protect their territory and owners, it's just the added feeling of knowing I am protected in case someone with ill-intent and organization decided to go through. It's not that my rural area is problematic (well I have one or two bad neighbors but...), it's more knowing I'm protected.

I'm in Portugal. I'm really not in the financial mood to leave the country and go seek a specific breed (if it's in Spain, maybe who knows), but it has to be the most amazing ever GSD line of for me to even cross the border.

I've also read some things about the GSD lower back is too low and that may cause some trouble and it's some genetic deviation from the higher lower back version.

It's hard digging through all the crap but I've found some websites of GSD (has pics):

Canil Daktari - Pastor Alemão
PASTOR ALEMÃO - VON HAUS MORES - Windows Live

I'm not sure though, I would prefer lines of work.

 

I've been to Portugal. I can read some Portugese and French.
The second link Von Haus Mores has some working line litters. The litter born January 13 has a sire that is from a well known French working line kennel. The dam is from a well know Czech working line kennel. The parents are also hip tested and have working titles. That is what you are looking for. It does look like all the pups are taken but you can contact the breeder and wait for a future litter.
The November 2009 litter is a showline litter.
The September 09 litter has the same sire as the January 2010 litter and a different Czech working line female. A future litter from this pair would also be what you may be looking for.
You do need to talk to the breeder and its also advisable if you can go see the litter in person. Not every puppy in a working line litter can be suitable as a property guard dog, only the breeder can pick for you if they have experience.

 

This is great advice Ocean.

I'm looking for a work line so I can have a really cool dog, with nerves of steel. Well done in being able to read through the site, it's pretty confusing even for me. So a good one would be that male and that Czech female? I'm open to more suggestions as well.

By the way I've found one more website:

Vom Haus Sylvus - Working German Shepherd Dogs

These 3 are probably the only ones to have decent working lines here (at least stuff I found online). And if I read that properly, I think the Von Haus Mores guys provide free basic training up to 12 months.

 

Yes, Vom Haus Sylvus looks like a working line kennel too.
Canil Daktari is a showline kennel, I would not consider them a working line kennel.
However, if you are not planning to play the schutzhund sport with your dog, a showline GSD may be fine for your needs.
Both working line and SV showline GSDs can make fine family companions and guard dogs. You chances of finding a dog with nerves of steel though would be higher with a pure working line litter.
If you are not interested in schutzhund sport, you should make that clear to the breeder so the breeder can find you a puppy with relatively lower drives who can be calm inside the house. I sense that you are the type of owner who would like your GSD to live inside the house most of the time, right?
I would go with the Von Haus Mores kennel and see if they have future litters planned from their French male and any of their Czech females.
But any puppies from these litters will need good training. They are not the type of dog to leave in the yard and forget.

 

I'm glad you brought that up. I'll be having my future dog outside, as I have my current one. He's always outside, and I walk him daily. Me or my father (usually me). You're right, I do prefer a working line, I want a calm, relaxed and strong male, the alpha male after me or my father for companionship, guarding the house and protecting us.

Thanks for the tip on the Canil Daktari, so it appears there are actually only 2 real and worthy working lines here. Your suggestion of the Von Haus Mores still stands up?

 

..... I'll be having my future dog outside, as I have my current one. He's always outside, and I walk him daily......I want a calm, relaxed and strong male, the alpha male after me or my father for companionship, guarding the house and protecting us. ......?

If the dog is going to be "always outside", please reconsider and don't get a GSD. They are too much of a family pack dog and should be an inside dog so they can be with their family. PLUS, how can a dog "guard the house" if they are stuck out in the yard?

 

It's common here for dogs to be outside of the house. We have a warmer weather, although winters are a bit cold, at least to my standards. I've seen UK people go around in shorts here.

People have dogs outside to protect their goods outside the house. It's much easier to steal something from the yard and farm than it is to break in the house itself. The way my house is, I have a gate that separates my property from the road. Granted the gate isn't tall enough, it's around 130 cms or so (4feet?).

From the gate inwards there is a wide terrain my dog, when he was a puppy could explore and go out. The problem is, my farm is linked with other people's farms and properties, so when my dog started getting older he started digging holes and he would destroy other people's work so I had to arrest him with a chain.

I could get the GSD inside, but won't that be unfair to my little one who is always outside? And what about the GSD hair, I'd probably have to vacuum the house every X amount of hours.

 

The problem is, my farm is linked with other people's farms and properties, so when my dog started getting older he started digging holes and he would destroy other people's work so I had to arrest him with a chain.

Perfect example of a dog that is being left outside without getting enough time and stimulation. I assure you if your dog was getting its needs met it would not have the energy to dig holes and cause trouble. This is exactly why you should not get a GSD, or reconsider keeping the dog outside. A working line dog ESPECIALLY is going to have high energy and drive. You need to find appropriate ways to channel this in dogs to prevent them from finding their own ways to occupy time and intelligence.

 

Are you saying that the dog you rescued is now on a chain?
That is terrible!
It is illegal to tie the dog with a chain in many parts of North America.
I know it is done in some countries but that is animal abuse.
Before you even think of getting a GSD, please buy a proper set of kennels or you can even make them yourself.
In Germany, the home of the GSD, many dogs do not stay inside the house but they have very nice kennels.
Look at these kennels at the von den Wolfen kennel, one of the top in Germany.
Deutsche Schaeferhunde "von den Woelfen" - Unser Zwinger
OK, you do not need to have kennels as nice as von den Wolfen but you can make something like this: Champion Dog Kennel - Dog Kennels at Dog Kennels

You should have something like that for the dog you have rescued to keep him from digging your neighbor's properties. also, can you build a fence separating your property from the neighbors so your dog can not go to their yards?

 

I forgot to add a detail. The chain is 5 meters long and he can walk around a long radius on the yard. I have an old kitchen, outside of my own house, where my dog sleeps. No tools or anything that he can get hurt with. At night, or during the day when he wants to sleep, he just walks inside and sleeps on some old carpets I've set for him so he doesn't have to sleep on the ground itself of the kitchen. The kitchen door is always open.

I know how that all sounded at first but I've seen dogs that are with 50 cms, or 1 meter chains and sleep and live in concrete kennels in a concrete floor like the one in the pic below. They eat and crap in the same place, rarely see the owner, never walk, don't get vaccinated, anti-parasites collars, nothing. My dog is the best and well treated dog in the neighborhood, I care a lot about him.

By the way, the way our properties are set, it's not possible and practical to build a fence to other people's neighbors.

 

He was always outside playing and running around loose. He only started digging some holes when he was maybe 8 months old, with the same level of exercise and freedom he already did, maybe they do those types of things at a certain age as the level of attention I gave him was the same. It's not just about the digging, it was also about, as he was growing up he got heavier and he would hurt other people's crops as they were being planted and still fragile.

He digs holes to find little lizards and moles. He sniffs or sees something running into a hole and goes after it. He doesn't dig dirt for the sake of digging, only to stash food (which he doesn't do anymore) or go after said lizards.

When I tell "where is it?" he starts looking into the horizon looking for something to look or go after (not necessarily related to lizards or digging), that's why I think one of his parents must have been a regular hunting dog (breed or no breed).

 

Once you talk about chaining a dog on this board, you will lose a lot of people who might be encouraged to offer advice. Do you live in such a bad neighborhood that you have to be constantly worrying about having your outside "stuff" stolen? My advice to you is not to get a GSD - they were bred to be WITH people, and need frequent interaction with their family. One hour a day won't do it - might do it for you, but not for the dog. Their ancestors were herding sheep, and were with the shepherd in the fields all day long. Get a Caucasian Mountain Dog - these big dogs were originally bred to live in the mountains, and while being extremely loyal to their people can be intimidating enough to drive off all but the most determined - or crazy.
________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge

 

If I wanted a big dog I would get a Cão da Serra da Estrela, it's from one of our mountains over here. Although it's an ok breed, the GSD is better. By the way one of my neighbours has a GSD and he is outside, although he has a fence in a small yard and that's where he spends most of his days, or in the garage. I rarely see them walking him.

How is chaining so horrible? I don't understand, even if that's a bad thing I treat my dog very well, and if you think I'm bad you should check out the crushing majority of dogs I see everywhere I go.

 

I think we have to remember jack is from portugal, while we may not agree or condone , and find it absolutely cruel to chain our dogs, people of other cultures/countries treat their animals differently.

 

I still don't understand it. The chain is 5 meters long, most dogs I see have half a meter and eat and crap in the same place all their life. I feel sorry for them and find THAT cruel and for the fact they do not have a better owner. I'm a good owner and I treat my dog well. How could I be hurting my dog by having him chained? There are people with kennels that NEVER walk them or show up to greet them. Is that better?

The chain doesn't choke him and he doesn't step on it. He sleeps inside the kitchen with some old carpets so he doesn't lie down directly on the floor and his 5 meter chain is LONG enough to come out outside to the dirt and do his physical relief if necessary. 5 meters makes it a 10 meter radius of exploration, with the exception that he doesn't take advantage of all the radius because of the kitchen and its wall.

This is cruel:

What I do is not.


*5 meters is 16 feet.

 

Jack,

What people are referring to is not the physical conditions that you have your dog in, but more so the mental. GSD's are people oriented dogs and like to be close to their family/pack. It is almost an emotional thing with most all GSD's.

 

Exactly! But people in many countries don't seem to take this into account. A dog is a dog is a dog. Not the family member we are referring to. Sorry Jack - I don't condone chaining, whether it is 5 ft or 30 ft. It's frustrating for any animal to be confined in this manner. GSD's (with some exceptions) are for the most part sensitive and ALL are intelligent. I don't even want to think about what the boredom and lack of mental stimulation is doing to your neighbors' dog....... I don't doubt that you care about your dogs - but people on this board look at their canine companions as part of the family, which will share in our activities and live in our homes with us. They are naturally protective, but they live fulfilled lives, not just purchased to sit in the garden and look fierce. Just a different culture I guess.
_____________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge

 

I would think that any responsible breeder would not sell you a puppy to be an outside dog, even more so with no method of containment except a chain. GSDs were bred for their intelligence and drive, so to keep a dog like that with no purpose and no mental stimulation is unkind. It seems that if your only reason for having a dog is protection, you could get a better security system or fence/gate instead?

 

Hey guys,

I grew up in a Portuguese family that happened to breed GSDs. For me, Ana, a dog is a family member. So I've been the ugly duckling as far as dog care is concerned. But not in Portugal and many other places in the world. In most places, actually, a dog is just that. An animal. The old adage out there is "People are people, dogs are dogs. To each its own." This concept of dogs in the house, having dog beds and dog toys is not world wide by any means. Dog breeders in those places don't think any different because they are in that culture. My dogs are my kids and I am still looked at by some family members as an extra terrestrial. In our culture here, in Canada and in Germany (from what I remember from living there in the 80s) dogs are with us all the time. Specially GSDs. But don't assume it's like that everywhere. The same way we cannot understand a chained dog, folks out there just don't fathom why we're fussing about it. Same way baked beans here are sweet. Folks in other bean-eating countries gag just thinking about adding sugar to their usually savory beans. See what I'm saying?
We might debate all we want but it boils down to the very deeply ingrained cultural root of the different people around the planet.
What we see as terrible living conditions for our GSDs are perfectly normal and trivial conditions elsewhere and no argument from either side will persuade either side to change its ways. We just have to agree to disagree...
Cheers,
Ana

 

Good post Ana

 

Perhaps you should consider other methods to keep away burglars, like motion activated lights or alarms. A dog on a chain won't keep away burglars. I mean, it's on a chain, the only thing it can do is bark.

 

A bark is good enough for alerting and if the chain is long enough a dog can reach the potential burglar to dissuade him of going further. Especially if he is trained to not accept food from strangers.

I understand your point view when people talk about cultural differences, it just doesn't mean I agree with it entirely, mostly due to practical reasons and the way my house and property is set up.

I treat my dog very well, and I've had this conversation in a PM, I provide him food, shelter and friendship and in exchange he gives me alertness, awareness and playfulness. He would probably be dead or starving if I haven't found him and took him with me, so that alternative would be far worse.

 

I read carefully through all these posts. I still do not understand why if the property is fenced the dog has to be tied up.

If there are trees or other obstacles like pipes or bars in the yard then the chain will be caught on them the dog will be immobilized away from his food or water and in a hot climate like it is in Portugal he may even be dehydrated to death.

Please do not refer to all European and Mediterranean countries as being treating the dogs as animals.

To us a dog and especially a GSD is born free , lives his entire life free and with the family and dies free.

Just to prove it .. In the picture to your left Richie is sitting calmly , loose, free on my veranda only 3 feet from our main gate which leads to the public road.

He will definitely protect us. This calm dog will be transformed into a guard if need arises!!