Sieger show 2007 West German Show Lines- Please tell me this is being bred out 
They can hardly walk.
They can hardly walk.
Horrifying roach backs
Nurse Bishop
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What would Colonel von Stephanitz say?
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there can't be a "to each their own" . There is a written and a historical standard.
that conformation is far ooutside of the standard , . It is not functionals.
"they are the right colour" -- well not really because there is no right colour.
there are colourS -- sable , black, bi-colour , black and tan (schwarz braun)
find me any colour that is not black and red in the show lines.
the SV agenda will not change . Attempts have been made .
There was even a legitately elected SV president who promised big changes.
That was dr Helmut Raiser .
the message of the SV and the commercial agenda is clear
that conformation is far ooutside of the standard , . It is not functionals.
"they are the right colour" -- well not really because there is no right colour.
there are colourS -- sable , black, bi-colour , black and tan (schwarz braun)
find me any colour that is not black and red in the show lines.
the SV agenda will not change . Attempts have been made .
There was even a legitately elected SV president who promised big changes.
That was dr Helmut Raiser .
the message of the SV and the commercial agenda is clear
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There will always be a 'to each their own' for the same reason the expression 'there is no accounting for taste' is true ... pretty sure that in the same statement I also said 'crippling conformation' ... I don't like it or think it's right or acceptable, but the people who are in charge and are awarding the conformation trophies don't seem to give two hoots about the written standard ... I'd love to see that change, but when I look at other breeds that have been bred to point of barely being able to function in normal life, much less in a working role (dogs whose conformation barely lets them breathe normally, or eyes that are practically falling out of their sockets) my faith that anyone in the show community is going to do anything but continue to exaggerate the extremes kind of wanes.
As Cliff said, as long as people LIKE them nothing will change ... there's no accounting for taste.
As Cliff said, as long as people LIKE them nothing will change ... there's no accounting for taste.
actually money represents freedom.
you have some , you can do thngs, go places, take care of yourself, be charitable and take care of others.
it is the love of money that is thre root of evil.
yes the dogs with that exaggerated conformation are crippled.
they have become the source of international scorn and humiliation - not allowed to
even exhibit because the conformation is deemed cruel and inhumane.
I advocate for the dogs. It is not the dogs fault .
Breeders? The GSD death of a legend --- the system knows full well what they are doing .
They are all complicit . They rely on the potential for eager , largely foreign , members who
want a piece of the $$$ action and the "prestige" of proximity or ownership of "the best in the
world " the accepted SIEGER's value in the scheme of things.
if those foreign markets -- USA , China with its asertive emerging economy , pet owners dried up
because they demand better the dog would change to meet the demands of the market .
you have some , you can do thngs, go places, take care of yourself, be charitable and take care of others.
it is the love of money that is thre root of evil.
yes the dogs with that exaggerated conformation are crippled.
they have become the source of international scorn and humiliation - not allowed to
even exhibit because the conformation is deemed cruel and inhumane.
I advocate for the dogs. It is not the dogs fault .
Breeders? The GSD death of a legend --- the system knows full well what they are doing .
They are all complicit . They rely on the potential for eager , largely foreign , members who
want a piece of the $$$ action and the "prestige" of proximity or ownership of "the best in the
world " the accepted SIEGER's value in the scheme of things.
if those foreign markets -- USA , China with its asertive emerging economy , pet owners dried up
because they demand better the dog would change to meet the demands of the market .
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Yes of course money equals freedom. It’s one of the first things teenagers learn. It’s a healthy part of the motivational equation. It’s not what the phrase equates to though. Yes love of or obsession of money. Where there is lot of money to be made greed is often the struggle in all aspects show or sport.
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I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but that video is 11 years old.... and I am so tired of seeing it.
The general public has already bit down and won't let go of the stereotypes and extremes that exist within this breed.
If we (GSD enthusiasts) keep rehashing this video, and the Crufts video, and the rest, we are not helping ourselves or public perception and we certainly aren't helping the dogs.
I'd rather see current video of strong, sound GSDs of good character being shared far and wide. The dogs are out there.... plenty of us see them or own them.
JMHO.
The general public has already bit down and won't let go of the stereotypes and extremes that exist within this breed.
If we (GSD enthusiasts) keep rehashing this video, and the Crufts video, and the rest, we are not helping ourselves or public perception and we certainly aren't helping the dogs.
I'd rather see current video of strong, sound GSDs of good character being shared far and wide. The dogs are out there.... plenty of us see them or own them.
JMHO.
If you want to see the current crop of dogs, videos have been posted on the PDB: 2017 SV Bundessiegerzuchtschau in Ulm video - Page 1
The problem is these dogs are SUPPOSED to represent the pinnacle of the breed, the best of the best. THAT'S why this needs to be talked about!
The problem is these dogs are SUPPOSED to represent the pinnacle of the breed, the best of the best. THAT'S why this needs to be talked about!
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True wibackpacker. There is corruption in the animal world with breeders enjoying their extreme animals in whichever venue they are deeply vested into. Such as extreme Arabian horses that look nothing like a horse. There are breeders who goal is to breed for balance so it is important to stress that and mention that also. I have run into a few people that are non german Shepherd people who believe the breed to be crippled, neurotic, or aggressively insane by only via internet. They are sure a breed unto their own but is upsetting to see people view them in such a way. More disturbing is people within the breed just to line bash for their own personal issues which is only digging the hole deeper. Even though I like this forum if I was a person who was unfamiliar with the breed I would stay awAy from the breed from reading all about the crippled, unbalanced aggressive dogs and dogs riddled with heritary illnesses that lived to be 5. I do read all this more often then not. If i did not know any better I just may stay away from dogs all together.
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Here is a video of Rumor winning Westminster. You can see her at the beginning and the end (push the button to the right so you don't have to view the all the ridiculous breeds). You can see she really goes downhill topline while pulling on the leash, although it looks like her trot is hitting right. But when she is standing, not stacked, you can still see that downward slope. She might just be anticipating being stacked again at the show. Does anyone have a picture of her standing and relaxed?
Here is a vid of dogs built the way God intended - a joy to watch.
Here is a vid of dogs built the way God intended - a joy to watch.
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Honest question... do you (general you) think breeders who don’t breed to SV standards (titles, breed survey, show rating) have any right to complain about the Sieger winners? Can you, as a buyer, complain about structure when you buy from breeders who don’t breed to standard?
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Gypsy, we all have the right to not purchase or support breeders who breed exaggerated angulation.
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Of course we do. And that was more where my comment was pointed. Let your money do the talking. Support breeders who breed for correct structure, correct temperament and health, not what is fashionable right now. But don’t go to a breeder who doesn’t put in the work, doesn’t care about proper structure, doesn’t train/work/title/understand their dogs and then complain about where the breed is at.
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Ridiculous breeds or ur opinion that they are- which is ridiculous. Super enjoyed watching Rumor and the crufts video again - great teams! I’m sure god enjoyed watching them both to!
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Was it Helmut Raiser or the new guy that said some stuff along the lines of roach backs are a serious problem, the Crufts situation was disgraceful etc etc.
Then when he goes into detail of how to fix it & what his thoughts on a proper top line are, it becomes very clear if youre paying attention that he likes the roach & isn’t going to do anything about it. Except maybe stop the most extreme examples?
It was macabrly hilarious. It put some heavweight politicians to shame on their doublespeak skills.
The below is embarrassing, but it’s got its defenders. Plenty on this forum as well, that’ll tell you not only does it look good but it’s useful as well.
GSDs are supposed to be shaped like hyenas, so they can drag their owners to safety like a carcass I guess.
![Image]()
Then when he goes into detail of how to fix it & what his thoughts on a proper top line are, it becomes very clear if youre paying attention that he likes the roach & isn’t going to do anything about it. Except maybe stop the most extreme examples?
It was macabrly hilarious. It put some heavweight politicians to shame on their doublespeak skills.
The below is embarrassing, but it’s got its defenders. Plenty on this forum as well, that’ll tell you not only does it look good but it’s useful as well.
GSDs are supposed to be shaped like hyenas, so they can drag their owners to safety like a carcass I guess.
"I'd rather see current video of strong, sound GSDs of good character being shared far and wide. The dogs are out there.... plenty of us see them or own them.
"
so would I . so would I.
are they represented by the SV's highly promoted premier SHOWCASE opportuinity which presents to the public, "unwashed" and experienced the true living examples of breed perfection.
No . No and that is the source -bad right to the very source.
one of the last shows Linda Shaw and I attended -- we were there at the beginning , saw exhibitors interact with theiir dogs and the dogs natural selves from the point of arrival.
We saw them assemble . We saw them out of the ring -- and then we saw them in the ring in their repsective
classes.
the dogs were awarded -- temperament ????? yeah . conformation -- extreme roach - front of the line
ONE good balanced , sound , visually stunning , CORRECT dog , a young pup either one of us would have been happy with - yes , show lines -- and that youngsters was dead last
the judge was a German SV guest
the will and desire to change things is not there .
this was recent - two years , three years tops --
any one can like what they like --- but there has to be a fairness to the animals affected
by breeding choices.
owners on this forum with essentially crippled , lphyically limited, animals in pain at a young
age , not going to get "better" because the side effects will manifest as the joints are used -
and owners in distress
it has to stop .
"
so would I . so would I.
are they represented by the SV's highly promoted premier SHOWCASE opportuinity which presents to the public, "unwashed" and experienced the true living examples of breed perfection.
No . No and that is the source -bad right to the very source.
one of the last shows Linda Shaw and I attended -- we were there at the beginning , saw exhibitors interact with theiir dogs and the dogs natural selves from the point of arrival.
We saw them assemble . We saw them out of the ring -- and then we saw them in the ring in their repsective
classes.
the dogs were awarded -- temperament ????? yeah . conformation -- extreme roach - front of the line
ONE good balanced , sound , visually stunning , CORRECT dog , a young pup either one of us would have been happy with - yes , show lines -- and that youngsters was dead last
the judge was a German SV guest
the will and desire to change things is not there .
this was recent - two years , three years tops --
any one can like what they like --- but there has to be a fairness to the animals affected
by breeding choices.
owners on this forum with essentially crippled , lphyically limited, animals in pain at a young
age , not going to get "better" because the side effects will manifest as the joints are used -
and owners in distress
it has to stop .
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Not Gypsy, but of curse you do. However, with that right come the responsibility to think critically, research, and choose intelligently. That means not rewarding breeders who are sloppy. That means choosing to support programs with people at the helm who actually care about titling their dog’s. That means asking your breeder not to lower the bar to suit them. It means not being a lazy buyer. Too many buyers are lazy and then complain about their dog’s they bought from lazy breeders. Too many breeders are lazy and choose to cut corners when it comes to what they put into their breeding stick.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Was it Helmut Raiser or the new guy that said some stuff along the lines of roach backs are a serious problem, the Crufts situation was disgraceful etc etc.
Then when he goes into detail of how to fix it & what his thoughts on a proper top line are, it becomes very clear if youre paying attention that he likes the roach & isn’t going to do anything about it. Except maybe stop the most extreme examples?
It was macabrly hilarious. It put some heavweight politicians to shame on their doublespeak skills.
The below is embarrassing, but it’s got its defenders. Plenty on this forum as well, that’ll tell you not only does it look good but it’s useful as well.
GSDs are supposed to be shaped like hyenas, so they can drag their owners to safety like a carcass I guess.
[/QUOTE![Image]()
Gsds are not to be shaped like coffee tables! You think that’s a good “then” photo.
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I refer to those breeds with face so flat they will suffocate while riding in an airplane, those who tend to have globe luxation (eye spontaneously pops out of socket), or have no hair coat except for a few hairs on their heads, and those bred to bizarre shapes and sizes. Surely, ridiculousness is in the eye of the beholder but you know it when you see it. German Shepherd breed 'going downhill', is the subject here.
***removed by moderator*** The farm dogs Col. Stephanitz used to create the GSDs were originally bred from Carpathian wolves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_wolf
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