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Discussion Starter #1
Sieger show 2007 West German Show Lines- Please tell me this is being bred out :( They can hardly walk.

 

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in my opinion - single word -- NO

this is what Linda Shaw tried to bring to attention by education to move to a reasonable and funtcional topline.\The Illustrated Standard for the German Shepherd Dog - first and second editions

deaf ears?

she often said , I hope I am not too late?

Time will tell.
 

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Here's how much a dog with this sort of conformation will have to distort its legs in order to trot: Imagine the wear and tear on the joints over time!

The tight leash doesn't help, of course...
 

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Same thing happened with the AKC Showlinegsd. I blame the judges at these shows.
Absolutely 100%! Stop letting dogs with flawed or non functional structure win. For that matter stop letting them be shown. Do the judges not have the right to simply award to no one?
 

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Absolutely 100%! Stop letting dogs with flawed or non functional structure win. For that matter stop letting them be shown. Do the judges not have the right to simply award to no one?
I had this conversation with a friend of mine who shows her Belgian Shepherd in AKC. I said I would be a cruel judge because I would not award dogs with this extreme conformation. My friend said judges do have the right to not choose a "best dog/bitch" in their class, it's just oftentimes, they feel they have to or aren't willing to be as "firm" (or maybe they do like the extreme)
 

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The current SV president has plainly stated that the working line is not his vision of the German Shepherd Dog.
The politics of the AKC conformation ring is just as bad. An ASL breeder and judge explained exactly how thst really works.

Bottom line....don't expect any changes. Lots of money involved.
 

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the video represents one stud progeny group - Zamp vom Thermodos .

He was a SIEGER "the" representative of the pinnacle of achieving a type
a breeding goal , a perfection.

Zamp had many many litters . Progeny list for VA1 Zamp vom Thermodos SCHH3

Now I may be wrong here but was Zamp not the topic of a very recent post on this forum - one of those
check out this pedigree ones, and did someone not say that his hips were not good?
Help me out there .

In any case Zamp had a short life . He died at 8 . There was never any explanation.

Being one who answers a lot of "what is wrong with this dog's walk, the legs, the cow hocks , the
looseness " threads , I do know that Zamp is on the pedigree .

that video is from 2007 .
What has happened in the following 11 years?
That is the important question.
Did we see an improvement to a natural , functional topline .

Are you kidding . I don't see any change and if any it is not in the right
direction . I bet you if you were to look at a more recent video of the BSZS
you would see more exaggeration of a fault.

the system supports and rewards this .

who will call a spade a spade?
 

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The current SV president has plainly stated that the working line is not his vision of the German Shepherd Dog.
The politics of the AKC conformation ring is just as bad. An ASL breeder and judge explained exactly how thst really works.

Bottom line....don't expect any changes. Lots of money involved.
Benevolent dictatorship. It's really about the fattest pockets. Reminds me of FIFA scandal.
 

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Benevolent dictatorship. It's really about the fattest pockets. Reminds me of FIFA scandal.
Nothing benevolent about it. ☺ I think it was the same rant about Deb Z using an ecollar and he tried to punish people worldwide. And the working world stood up and said "uhhhh....just no."
 

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Nothing benevolent about it. ☺ I think it was the same rant about Deb Z using an ecollar and he tried to punish people worldwide. And the working world stood up and said "uhhhh....just no."
Really sounds like fifa then! Come across about bringing the world together, but they really are just corrupt.
It's a shame. The showlines will suffer.
 

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To each their own, but to my eye the way these dogs move just looks completely unnatural. It boggles my mind why anyone would breed for such extreme and practically crippling conformation ... but then I think of all the other breeds that have been essentially ruined by the show ring and it makes more sense (though I still think it's an abomination).

The show lines have been suffering for many years. It is truly sad what has become of the show line GSD in the 50ish years between beautiful dogs like Bernd, Mutz, etc and today in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
They have made them looked stacked when they're not.
 

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To each their own, but to my eye the way these dogs move just looks completely unnatural. It boggles my mind why anyone would breed for such extreme and practically crippling conformation ... but then I think of all the other breeds that have been essentially ruined by the show ring and it makes more sense (though I still think it's an abomination).

The show lines have been suffering for many years. It is truly sad what has become of the show line GSD in the 50ish years between beautiful dogs like Bernd, Mutz, etc and today in my opinion.
So very true!, but people LIKE them!
 

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Do these dogs even match the breeds standard?
They're the right color.

If not then shouldn't the judges be replaced if they allow bad dogs to pass?:confused:
I would guess that every handler and owner associated with the dogs in the video thinks those dogs are great. They aren't going to replace judges who share the same mindset.

In an ideal world, judges would be impartial when entering the ring and base their assessments on how well the dogs standing in front of them conform to the standard, unfortunately, that's not always the case. A lot of handlers/owners avoid or choose to only enter certain shows based on who's going to be judging and/or what other dogs are entered because they understand how the game is played. :(

The leash is mainly to blame for the distortion in the above photo. but even on a loose leash or no leash, these dogs cannot do a proper 2-beat trot. The hind leg will always hit before the front leg.
I've yet to hear anyone with roached back dogs explain why they would intentionally stack a dog to distort the top line into a roach or allow a dog to pull so hard on a leash that it distorts movement, but these are excuses people give when questioned about the roached back, wonky rear assembly etc. Basically they deny the problem exists...it's all an illusion caused by stacking and leashes. Right.
 
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