[KootenayMutt]

In my area it's standard practice for competitors to bring new pups to trials, but non-competitors would most likely be asked to leave -- even at outdoor venues.

I'm part of a small nosework club and our club policy for trials is that if you are not entered in the trial, you are not allowed to bring a dog onto the show grounds.
Trials are chaotic and busy enough (even the small ones), without the added chaos, liability, and distraction of non-entered dogs.

What I'm sure you'll find is that as you get involved in classes etc., and as your local dog people get to know you, that more socialization and fun match opportunities will start to present themselves.

 

[Liesje]

I brought two non-entered dogs to the last outdoor agility trial I attended (to watch and photograph, not compete), however I have trialed with these people in this venue before, with one of the dogs I had with me. I kept my dogs crated back in the parking lot, didn't bring them ringside, but sat with friends ringside. My experience is that it's sort of a don't ask, don't tell kind of thing. If your dog is healthy and well behaved and you're keeping it away from the ring and other dogs, there's probably no problem (unless the premium is very explicit about no non-trial dogs).

I also do flyball and our tournaments are often at large county fairgrounds so the events are public (often there are 2-3 events like horse shows or gun shows happening at the same time) and we see random people walk over with their dogs all the time. Flyball is so crazy with barking and the chaos of racing that it's a lot easier to bring non-entered dogs even if they are *not* quiet and that well behaved No one will notice or care as long as the dog is not aggressive and not getting in the ring.

The two biggest issues I've noticed with people bringing non-entered dogs are 1) they are using "equipment" that is explicitly banned (for example AKC does not allow prong collars, not saying I agree, but that is their rule so they cannot be used at an AKC event) and 2) the dogs look so distracted and overwhelmed I can see the owners are frustrated and not able to concentrate on learning about the sports and the dogs are not really having fun because it's overstimulating.http://www.germanshepherds.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[Majolica]

One thing I would point out is that if you are going to do this, at the very least please be knowledgeable about the venue. The last two obedience trials I went to (and trialed in) were so small that there really wasn't enough room for even the dogs that were actually entered. It really isn't fair to stuff dogs into those events that aren't even entered making it even tighter for the people and dogs that actually paid the money to be there. (Plus, that wouldn't be the best socialization environment for a puppy anyway. It was tough for my shy, adult dog who goes everywhere with me.)

 

[wildo]

So really this thread has highlighted two different schools of thought:

1) People who actually do agility, trial their dogs in agility, and know what they're talking about in regards to agility trials (specifically in the fact that this is an extremely common practice for competitors)

and...

2) People who clearly don't do agility and have never been to an agility trial (in which they would have seen at least a few puppies being passed around and socialized).


As stated- totally common thing for competitors to do this. YOUR difference is that you're not a competitor. If your dog is really well behaved and chill, as Lies said: "don't ask, don't tell." And she's very right about the use of banned equipment. Or, like I said- see if you can sit in at a class. If your dog is a crazy fool that you can't control- then obviously shame on you if you brought them out to such a situation. Just use some common sense.

 

[selzer]

I've trained in agility, and I have been to agility trials. The Cleveland Classic has agility trials, as well as conformation, rally, and obedience. They want you to take you competing dog and go when you are done. There are too many dogs and too much chaos, and there is no reason for extra dogs, especially those whose owners are not enetered in anything.

Follow the rules. I really don't understand why people feel that they are deserving of an exception.

The thing is, just like the mods here are volunteers, most of the stewards and people at the dog shows are volunteers. They have done a considerable amount of work to put together the show. Part of that entry fee goes to insurance they have to purchase for the event. Those who enter the show with their dogs sign a paper saying they absolve the club of any liability if there is an accident, I believe it is part of your entry form. It also says something about being responsible for damages caused by your dog. Unentered dog owners sign nothing.

Club members, guests, competitors understand that the liability of the dog show is reduced by not allowing unentered dogs -- these are all dogs who have been trained to a certain level and around other dogs. They also understand that accidents are always possible with animals. Some of them understand the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes for these shows, by the volunteers.

Volunteers do not WANT to ask you if your dog is a competitor, they do not WANT to ask you to leave. That is confrontational and at least with the AKC, we want people to have a good experience at shows, so they will come back. They will train their dogs and enter their dogs. No one WANTS to tell you to take you dog and leave. Don't put them in that uncomfortable position. Leave your dog at home if you are not competing. I would leave a non-entered dog at home too. There is enough to deal with with the one or more that are entered.

It just isn't a great place for an outing with your pet. You have stressed out people trying to get to their rings and do good. You have way too many dogs, you have way too many sights and sounds and stuff going on. Go without your pet and when your pet is ready, enter your pet. You will get a big enough dose of shows with your pet once they are entered. There really isn't any hurry.

 

[Liesje]

Depends on the club and event. I have done volunteer work at events I was not entered in and had one or two dogs along. If I can't bring my dog(s), then I can't be gone from home that long and won't be helping. When I got my first GSD I was trying to join the local agility club. You had to have a "sponsor" and a certain amount of volunteer time before you could join. There were no issues with me bringing my un-entered dog along, even crating indoors with competitors (had permission) and I was helping all day. A little common sense goes a long way. If the dog can't handle that environment, don't bring it. If the premium is very clear on no non-entered dogs or mentions limited parking and/or crating space, don't bring the dog. When in doubt, ask the host club.

 

[selzer]

Well, my dogs can handle show environments without being socialized to them as a puppy, and they can handle being at home while I am gone all day.

We don't have to bring our dogs every single time.

If you are working the show and have an incontinent dog, well sheesh, there never seems to be time to run a dog outside over and over again when you are stewarding or volunteering. But I think someone working at the show, a member of the hosting club is not the same as someone who has to google dog shows to find one.

 

[Liesje]

You don't have to make mountains out of molehills. I travel with my dogs on a monthly, sometimes weekly basis so I know plenty about how to train and socialize dogs and title in a dozen venues. I have no incontinent dogs but most events I attend are at least 1.5 hours away and we all know that there's no such thing as a short or normal length day at a dog event. Leaving at 6am and coming home 12-14 hours later...no I'm not going to leave a young dog home that long, not fair.

Plenty of clubs allow non-entered dogs at their events. All the OP has to do is check the premium or ask. I can't remember the last time I was at an agility event where people with non-entered dogs were being turned away. Or, come to a flyball tournament. We love seeing new people that might be interested (and meeting/evaluating their dogs). There really is no way to know what it's like or to know how a dog will react than to try it out.

 

[selzer]

Lies, my irritation is with the "don't ask, don't tell," and "everyone does it" encouragement. It is irresponsible. Someone that is asking this question on this site is not a dog show veteran/steward/volunteer/club member.

As a competitor, I arrive before but near the time my class begins, and I leave when my dogs are done. I have no problem with stewards having their dogs crated at ringside, because they are there from beginning to end. Typical competitors should not bring unentered dogs, and spectators should not bring their dogs there at all. And yes, most of the events are an hour or more away. If I was volunteering, my dogs would be at home -- but they can go outside on their own to relieve themselves.

 

[wildo]

As a competitor, I arrive before but near the time my class begins, and I leave when my dogs are done.

Oh. You're one of those people. Well in that case, no wonder you're such a stickler. Maybe if you stick around for a bit and actually volunteer your time to bar set, scribe, gate steward or something- you'd have a more friendly opinion on why this is really a nonissue. I guess if you're not willing to put in the time with the community, then I wouldn't expect any rules to be bent either.

Competitors bring unentered dogs to shows where the premium disallows it all the time == FACT.

 

[Liesje]

LOL yeah what Willy said. I'm often one of the first people there and last to leave and I'm talking events I don't even enter. Same is true for training. Legend's last agility session, I would arrive and watch the last 15 minutes of the class before him and then stay to help the instructor pack up and chat for 10-20 minutes. I'd feel awful if stewards are the only people actually sticking around an event. In flyball it's really rude and poor sportsmanship to leave early (and to not come over when they pause and hand out major awards).

 

[Persinette]

Regardless of what people who train and compete their dogs in the shows/volunteer do in regards to bringing their their un-entered dogs (the assumption is these people can train their dogs to behave reasonable well anyway and know the accepted etiquette) I think the point is that the general public should not be bringing 'Fido' to these events where the dog will be walking around the grounds--not crated--and a potential safety risk to the other dogs/competitors and an overall hazard in an already over crowded venue.

I believe Selzer's point is if someone is novice enough--and I don't mean that as a slight, I just mean new--to not already be a seasoned competitor, it is not good practice to be encouraging people to bring their un-entered dogs just because actual competitors who just happen to not be competing in that event do it.

 

[selzer]

I finish the class. I have the ribbons, and usually, I watch the rest of the obedience/rally because I enjoy it. But at some events, it says right on the premium list, dogs not needed for further judging are excused -- because there are way too many dogs there. The Crown Classic says this on their premium. So we stay until the dogs' classes are finished, awards are given, a new leash or whatever is bought and then we go.

I am not a member of the clubs that sponsor those shows. I have closed down shows before, driving round and round the Canfield fairgrounds in the dark trying to find any gate that was open. Been there, done that.

It helps that there is ALWAYS a blizzard in December on the days of the show, so yes, getting out of there when it is still light enough to maybe see until you are free of the city is a plus.

 

[selzer]

Oh. You're one of those people. Well in that case, no wonder you're such a stickler. Maybe if you stick around for a bit and actually volunteer your time to bar set, scribe, gate steward or something- you'd have a more friendly opinion on why this is really a nonissue. I guess if you're not willing to put in the time with the community, then I wouldn't expect any rules to be bent either.

Competitors bring unentered dogs to shows where the premium disallows it all the time == FACT.

And they shouldn't. Fact.

Sorry.
This is from the Crown Classic website:

Please come - but DO NOT bring your dog.
AKC rules DO NOT allow dogs that are not
formally entered into the show facility.

I am a little anal about rules being followed or not followed. I see a reason for the rules, and am not so grandiose to believe that they do not apply to me.

 

[Liesje]

I guess the obvious factor here is we're talking about agility and not ob/rally. When I did rally-o, the closest trials (50 minutes away) were in a tiny building used by the kennel club. There was *severely* limited space. I remember one woman had 3 GSDs and she would tie all three on 3' leashes to one anchor on the wall and not even bother crating them, but they were super mellow and well behaved. In these events we were encouraged to keep our dogs in our vehicles whenever possible (competitor dogs I mean), to save space for competitors trying to enter/exit. If we wanted crating space, we had to come down the night before the trials to try to find a space and setup. At one trial, the honor dog had to sit in the middle of the course because the ring was already so small there was no space on the edge of the course. It would be absolutely stupid to try to bring un-entered dogs to these events, even if it were allowed (or not explicitly *not* allowed).

My experience with agility, even AKC agility around here, has been much different. Plenty of space, competitors and host clubs open to allowing other dogs (especially if you ask) and very welcoming, wanting to get new people interested. An event is a good time to see how a dog initially reacts, so if you're in a club and teaching classes, it's nice to see that reaction before you convince the person to pay to join the club and enter a class maybe their dog cannot handle. And, most people learn real fast that it's simply not fun to have a dog on a leash for hours during an agility trial. I have never seen people actually sent away. Not all agility events I attend are AKC, so their blanket rules about un-entered dogs don't always apply. There are a dozen other dog sport venues than AKC (plenty more popular around here).

In my experience doing both, the agility and rally trials were very different, both in how they were run and the facilities hosting them and what those venues can accommodate.

I stand by my original suggestion...check the premium or ask the host club, bring your dog if it's allowed and you want to, use common sense and see how it goes.

 

[TwoBigEars]

Well, this escalated quickly.

There is definitely a difference between agility and obedience/rally. I have far more experience with agility, very limited with obedience. But it does seem that obedience trials are more strict about the no un-entered/no spectator dogs policy.

Agility trials overall are NOT strict about this. Even AKC trials. Yes we have a couple trials where they emphatically state and enforce no spectator dogs (particularly the annual cluster show). Most local weekend trials though? Nobody cares. As long as your dog's not pestering anyone. It can be tricky if you're just a spectator though and not a competitor that most people already know.

However, as far as socialization goes, I don't think it's absolutely necessary to visit trials. If you are diligent in visiting a lot of different locations and general socialization, a stable dog should have no trouble adapting to the trial atmosphere even if they've never been there until their first trial. Particularly after time spent in classes and hopefully some fun matches.

 

[selzer]

The crown classic is pretty specific about not bringing un-entered dogs and dogs not needed for further judging being excused -- it is on the agility premium list and on the website. But I figure that qualifies as a large annual cluster show.

That is the only show I go to that includes agility. The rest are all obedience or obedience and rally with or without conformation.

 

[Majolica]

So really this thread has highlighted two different schools of thought:

1) People who actually do agility, trial their dogs in agility, and know what they're talking about in regards to agility trials (specifically in the fact that this is an extremely common practice for competitors)

and...

2) People who clearly don't do agility and have never been to an agility trial (in which they would have seen at least a few puppies being passed around and socialized).


As stated- totally common thing for competitors to do this. YOUR difference is that you're not a competitor. If your dog is really well behaved and chill, as Lies said: "don't ask, don't tell." And she's very right about the use of banned equipment. Or, like I said- see if you can sit in at a class. If your dog is a crazy fool that you can't control- then obviously shame on you if you brought them out to such a situation. Just use some common sense.

I don't know if any of this was aimed at me, though I suspect it was since it was the first post after mine, and it specifically mentioned those doing obedience or anything other than agility. For the record, yes, I have attended agility trials, even trialed in a few years ago. And YES, some of them have also been very TIGHT! (Amazing that different venues might have varying amounts of room.) The OP specifically stated these are indoor trials. At the very least check out the venue before just showing up with an unentered dog. I'm not sure why that advice would be so unexpected. :rolleyes2: