[Chloé&Buck]

I have used the Good-command but I haven't noticed that my dogs had really paid much attention to it once they had learned the command. It was only during the phase where they were trying to figure out what I wanted that I noticed them really paying attention to the Good-command talk.

Sounds so logical to me. That's precisely because they are trying to figure it out that you repeat/praise. Exactly the same as when you "work on duration" as Bearshandler said.
Just telling your dog he's doing something right, and that thing is (sit, stay, or about anything).
Of course the command gets associated with praise and the good feeling that comes with it. It is motivational.
That's probably why my dogs have two styles of heeling. One is like working-mode heeling, where they're trotting all proud, tail up, and watching me (the thing that looks pretty if you want to do a little show lol), and a more "off" heeling where they'll be walking in a relaxed, slow mode with ears flattened, tail lower, and a soft gaze forward.
That is because one mode is associated with a lot of praise and motivation, whereas the other style is associated with "moderation".
And still, for some reason, they totally get what "heel" means and adapt according to context and the tone in my voice.
They do not seem the least confused about what I expect.

 

[Chloé&Buck]

It's more a vehicle word conveying excitement about ... whatever.

Yep, exactly.

 

[Chloé&Buck]

Isn't it precisely what we have been using for hundreds of years to communicate "intention" and "more like this/less like that" to our working dog partners?
Whether it's a whistle, high pitch, low pitch, vehicle word, praise, etc. these are just modulators influencing motivation and intensity level.
Now I understand how you may think it's superfluous for positions, because they are very clear-cut and restrictive.
But praise is like the most intuitive way of communication our mood and intention. You can use praise and/or just intonation, they'll know what mood you are in "about something"
(sorry for like a dozen edits but more thoughts come to mind)
I was reflecting on the "leave it" command just now, and similarly, my girl Mo has two different ways of "leaving it".
Because I worked so much on that command in high motivation mode, she'll most often leave it in a happy, "yes!" mode when I say "Hey Mo leave it?"
For those harder configurations, though, we also have "Leave. It.", by which I'm not leveraging her motivation but more applying pressure, in moderation mode.
All of this to say of course the way you work stuff, and associate praise OR moderation to stuff, allows you to make sure you can generate the right state of mind and energy in your dog when asking stuff.

 

[Chloé&Buck]

To be honest, at this point I could tell Mo to "pineapple" when she looks like she's looking for trouble, and I'm pretty sure she would actually pineapple.
She'll infer what I mean from that given situation and from my attitude if I utter it with enough intention.
I'm pretty sure for instance that she'd pineapple when we reach a crossroads. Because my pineapple command would definitely be "charged" enough.
So no, associating praise/command isn't going to confuse them much.

 

[Chloé&Buck]

I’m almost positive that if good is used as a reward marker the word used after it doesn’t even register to the dog.

What? lol
How could you possibly not be positive it does register. Just depends on intention...
Beware next time you "look happy" before you utter the command then. It may not register.
Or maybe it'll just make your dog more eager to perform what comes "next".

 

[Bearshandler]

What? lol
How could you possibly not be positive it does register. Just depends on intention...
Beware next time you "look happy" before you utter the command then. It may not register.
Or maybe it'll just make your dog more eager to perform what comes "next".

Once I give them the reward marker I’m pretty sure the only thing they are worried about is the reward, usually the ball. As for the rest of that, I’m not sure how it relates.

 

[Bearshandler]

What? lol
How could you possibly not be positive it does register. Just depends on intention...
Beware next time you "look happy" before you utter the command then. It may not register.
Or maybe it'll just make your dog more eager to perform what comes "next".

I actually just tested it with my dog. Based on his reaction, it didn’t register.

 

[Chloé&Buck]

Once I give them the reward marker I’m pretty sure the only thing they are worried about is the reward, usually the ball. As for the rest of that, I’m not sure how it relates.

Here's how it relates: praise, smile, the owner just being in a good mood, etc. are rewarding pee se. And not necessarily "reward markers" (as in throw a ball every time you say "good")
I encourage my dog every time he's making efforts, whether it's swimming to the other shore overcoming a hesitation, persevering in a tracking game, stopping at crossroads without even me asking, good anticipation, etc.
Of course he won't be expecting a ball every time I say "good"... he will feel good when I praise, because praise means good stuff, all kinds of good stuff.

 

[Sabis mom]

I think some of you are grossly underestimating your dogs. Lol.
Shadow is not the brightest bulb on the string and she has a huge vocabulary, understands tone and sarcasm.
Have a seat, sit, park it, butt down all mean sit. But that's my seat means something different. Thank you means you did something right unless you just dropped a ball in my coffee or puked on my shoe. In which case it means I really could have lived without that. Good job also has different meanings and good girl and bad girl might both mean good girl. She has about ten names and understands that when she barks at me to play and I hold up my coffee she should lay and stare at me until I put it down. No treats in my bed means run very fast to my bed. Don't make me beat you means you should keep doing all of that, even more. Any phone call that starts with I'm calling about my account means bark and climb all over me, but ones that start with hey whats up mean lay down and watch TV.

Sabi learned to nod and shake her head, frown, snort and flip me off. Also commands in English, German, French and Turkish, signs, whistles. Massive vocabulary and the only dog I have met that used mirrors to watch people.

Every dog in recent memory that has lived with me learned what my middle finger means.

Pretty sure sit, good sit is not a stretch.

 

[Chloé&Buck]

I never do that. I don't think they understand the concept of feedback and I consider it anthropomorphism.

Feedback can be anything from the sensation of water splashing on you skin to an ear scratch, to a sheep charging you or backing away from you, to a cat hissing, to that nausea you feel in your gut after having to much cake.
Any sensation is actually feedback .
The environment is constantly "talking" to you that way.
So it's nothing-o-morphist. More something that naturally comes with having a nervous system.
Do you realize just looking into your dog's eyes can generate a rush of oxytocin for both of you?
Feedback to your dog can be look, touch, voice... Anything.

 

[David Winners]

Feedback can be anything from the sensation of water splashing on you skin to an ear scratch, to a sheep charging you or backing away from you, to a cat hissing, to that nausea you feel in your gut after having to much cake.
Any sensation is actually feedback .
The environment is constantly "talking" to you that way.
So it's nothing-o-morphist. More something that naturally comes with having a nervous system.
Do you realize just looking into your dog's eyes can generate a rush of oxytocin for both of you?
Feedback to your dog can be look, touch, voice... Anything.

I don't think anyone is affecting that praise is not an important thing.

The question is whether a very specific form of praise is better than non specific praise.

I don't use the <good, command> syntax. Most everything I teach is either lured or captured so I'm not giving commands until the dog is fully aware and performing the behavior. At that point, I will use "good" to communicate that the behavior is right and I want it to continue. The "good" is low key and drawn out. Just a bit of "nice job, keep it up" until the reward marker.

The only place I use <good, command> is for break. When a dog pees, I say break, good break. Break, good break.

I see trainers use this method and I don't see any harm in it at all. It may increase understanding a little faster. It may just be a habit or something that makes sense to them. I agree that positive feedback helps increase duration.

 

[car2ner]

I personally think that our dogs use so many more cues than just our voice. When our dogs does a command properly our face changes, our posture changes, even our breathing changes. Our words are only part of the picture and perhaps an even smaller bit than we think. There have been enough times when I set ourselves up for a behavior, said the wrong word but the dogs did the right thing.

 

[David Winners]

I personally think that our dogs use so many more cues than just our voice. When our dogs does a command properly our face changes, our posture changes, even our breathing changes. Our words are only part of the picture and perhaps an even smaller bit than we think. There have been enough times when I set ourselves up for a behavior, said the wrong word but the dogs did the right thing.

I shot a video years ago where I changed pitch, tone, inflection and posture and could basically use any word I wanted and still get the response I was looking for.

I'll see if I can find it. It was part of a class I was teaching new handlers.

 

[tim_s_adams]

So I can't remember offhand where my son was coming back from, but he returned after being gone for awhile and in conversation asked what new stuff had I taught the dog.

Well just the prior week I realized that my dog could be directed with my eyes only. So I said eye commands. Of course he didn't believe and demanded a demonstration. So demonstrate we did!

Obviously some commands are too difficult to transmit with only your eyes, and even when you think you're doing that there are probably other subtle unconscious body cues thrown in, but yeah, predominantly with my eyes I could get several things across.

It's amazing what they pick up on and understand! I'm sure David has many stories of amazing connectedness with Fama, as they progressed, working as a team in the field. Dogs are amazing!

And people should be aware that EVERYTHING YOU DO WITH YOUR DOG HAS AN IMPACT ON EVERYTHING ELSE YOU DO WITH YOUR DOG!

Sorry, didn't mean to yell, but it's true and too often either not understood or overlooked!

Peace!

 

[jarn]

I think some of you are grossly underestimating your dogs. Lol.
Shadow is not the brightest bulb on the string and she has a huge vocabulary, understands tone and sarcasm.
Have a seat, sit, park it, butt down all mean sit. But that's my seat means something different. Thank you means you did something right unless you just dropped a ball in my coffee or puked on my shoe. In which case it means I really could have lived without that. Good job also has different meanings and good girl and bad girl might both mean good girl. She has about ten names and understands that when she barks at me to play and I hold up my coffee she should lay and stare at me until I put it down. No treats in my bed means run very fast to my bed. Don't make me beat you means you should keep doing all of that, even more. Any phone call that starts with I'm calling about my account means bark and climb all over me, but ones that start with hey whats up mean lay down and watch TV.

Sabi learned to nod and shake her head, frown, snort and flip me off. Also commands in English, German, French and Turkish, signs, whistles. Massive vocabulary and the only dog I have met that used mirrors to watch people.

Every dog in recent memory that has lived with me learned what my middle finger means.

Pretty sure sit, good sit is not a stretch.

There was a point when I’d had Luc for awhile, I rarely used commands with him - he’d do the wanted behaviour based on how I said his name. Our current three get commands (sometimes with “good command” because it just came naturally), but, since we mix up all their names all the time they need the specific command haha

 

[REEHGE]

I've noticed a trend in online trainers advocating for a repeat of a command during praising or rewarding for said command. An example would be, tell your dog to sit, when she/he complies you say "good sit"!

Do you do that? Have you ever? Is it helpful?

I'm familiar with the practice as it's been used in early childhood education circles for years, and they say it shows significant improvement for lots of kids (and also that you should repeat that 3 times).

But up until recently, had never seen anyone use this with dogs. I'm curious if you all use or have seen improvement using this with your dogs/puppies?

Interesting topic! I have recently been considering this since seeing different opinions on this around. I have been of the thought that there is generally no benefit to re-inserting the command after the praise or marker for general short commands. I do however tend to do this on re-enforcing a longer exercise thinking that it may help if their mind has wandered to remind them what the praise is for. On heel I may occasionally say a calmer more drawn out 'goood heel' or I might just say 'goood'. Seems to have worked this way for me, can't say I can prove one way or the other if it has helped or hindered from my relatively small samples to evaluate. Always open to a better way!

 

[selzer]

Sometimes. Sometimes I say, Good girl! or What a good girl you are. Sometimes I say Good SIT! And if the dog did something I wanted them to do but did not command, Good Down, or Good Come, and Certainly I use the word Gentle for being easy on my fingers and Outside for pottying outside at nauseum, because I am teaching the actual words so I can remind, "be gentle with the baby," or just "Gentle" and ask, "Do you need to go Outside?"

 

[WildWolves]

Yes I do it! With all breed of dog we’ve ever had. I definitely find it works, because you say it, and they do it maybe a bit after you say it, and you say it again and they’re like “oh, so that’s what that means!” I especially use it with potty training. “Go potty” and the puppy walks around for a bit finding a spot, then uses the bathroom, so I repeat it as they’re doing it and say good boy/girl, so they understand what I’m saying

 

[finn'smom]

Not a "good ____ " command, but I tend to use "YES" without repeating the command. It's more habit than anything, I'd have to train myself out of it if I thought it were detrimental to the end result. It's faster than delivering a reward (treat, toy) and in a pinch it's something I always have on hand to deliver.