[Riley's Mom]

Re: Help needed with bloat

I don't think there's anything we can do whatsoever to guarantee our dog will not bloat. We can take precautions and do our best to prevent it and it could happen anyway.

What we do to help prevent it:

1) Feed in raised bowls (although the e-vet said this is controversial apparently not totally proven to be either good or bad). To me it makes more sense to feed in raised bowls because the dog doesn't have to do so much gulping and ya know how some dogs do that "grab & catch" the food? They pretty much *have* to be taking in more air this way it seems.

2) No exercise 1hr before or after meals and this includes walks as my vet said walks are considered mild exercise.

3) We're feeding dehydrated raw now but going back to when we were feeding dry ... I did my own test of putting a few kibbles of grained dry in one cereal bowl and a few kibbles of no-grain dry in another and added some water. The grained food puffed up to like double it's size as it soaked in the water. If the no-grain puffed it was so little that you couldn't tell. The grained food got spongy the no-grain did not, it stayed solid.

I started to think if this stuff was going in my stomach, I would not want something going down that was going to expand and fluff up. I thought how uncomfortable that would feel and how a dog could eat 2c of dry food and have it wind up being more like 4c's after it expanded. It comes to mind that food expanding like that might just be taking on gas or perhaps creating gas??? Either way after about 30min there's way more in the stomach than there was in the food bowl. It makes me think that feeding dry grained food might just be an invitation to bloat.

I don't know if the food I tested had citric acid in it or not. I didn't know about the citric acid possibly being a contributor at that time or I would have checked this.

4) When we fed dry we mixed canned w/it, which is supposed to be another way to help prevent bloat per our e-vet and some articles I've read.

5) Watch the water consumption especially before/after exercise.

5) Initially I was concerned about feeding dehydrated because I thought of it swelling in the stomach as it re-hydrated. I mix their meals one meal ahead of time. In other words after they eat breakfast, I mix dinner, let it soak for no less than 30 min and then it gets covered and goes in the fridge until meal-time. I take the food out when I give them their thyroid pills one hour before it's time to eat. Same routine for every meal. Their dehydrated food has every opportunity to complete the "puffing up" process before it's given to the dogs and I've found in testing 3 varieties of dehydrated raw, there really is very little if any puffing up at all in any of them. I feel confident my dog's food is not going to grow in their stomachs.

In response to the original post, I thought the only way to know for sure if the stomach twisted was thru xray and it sounds like this wasn't done. I would insist on it.

I now keep GasX caps in the cupboard.

Marjorie, I agree with you but I've seen lists that have GSD's on them, too so that's like a double whammy. I don't know why Purdue would not have included GSD's. I've also never heard of smaller dogs bloating and I do believe a dog's size has something to do with things.

Like Tracie said, I'm not a vet so this is not medical advice but what I do with my own dogs.

 

[Riley's Mom]

Re: Help needed with bloat

Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereIt was either the Purdue study or something in WDJ that said excersize before and after eating wasn't a contributing factor.

Your dog bouncing around with or without food in it's stomach seems like a good way to open the door for bloat. I don't need a scientific study to tell me that my dog's stomach is being jostled around when he's running around the back yard. That's plain old common sense, no scientific study needed.

If you've ever seen a semi driving down the road that's carrying what they call "swinging meat" that's a real good visual for what I see as a dog with a full stomach romping and stomping around. Truckers carrying loads that shift (tankers etc ... another good comparison) have to be *additionally* careful because their loads shift and there's no way to prevent it. A full stomach = the contents of a tanker sloshing around just asking to "tip over."

 

[Riley's Mom]

Re: Help needed with bloat

Originally Posted By: angieroseHe thinks I am being overly paranoid. I figure that even if I'm wrong, I'm setting us up for habits that we'll need to continue when she's bigger, so no harm done. So does anyone know if puppies can succumb to bloat?

I don't think there's any such thing as being to paranoid about bloat. Plain and simple it's a killer and a fast one. I've been told if you suspect bloat you MIGHT have an hour to save your dog. My e-vet is 45min way ...

When we took Riley a few months ago suspecting bloat they told us about a 3mos old pup that had bloated the week before. He survived but he was only 3mos old and so yes, puppies can bloat. Riley didn't bloat he did have an obstruction and he's fine now. Your hubby would prolly call me paranoid but better paranoid than to not be prepared and at least try to keep it from happening.

 

[kkalligher]

Re: Help needed with bloat: a must read for GSD owners

I don't think we will ever get a straight answer to this question. I lost a GSD to gastric torsion when he was only 9 years old. I also kept tropical fish and goldfish since I was very young, not to mention other animals. Had cats all my life. By now you are wondering, OK so what! I started feeding that GSD kibble at the advice of our vet, (too many reasons to list, but he advised it). He developed gastric torsion and died, too late to be saved. I kept and bred many varieties of tropical fish and goldfish. Had so much success that I was suppling local pet shops and even a local chain. Cats when I was young were fed scraps and all the mice they could catch. The vets that I have come in contact with will encourage kibble over wet. Fish food has had a remarkable change. Dog food has had a long evolution of change and mega-producers.
After 40 years of raising and breeding fish I just ran out of time with family and work so I stopped. After some years in hiatus I started with my fish again. Set up good facilities and bought some really great specimens. But I was not having much success, my fish died and some really great specimans would be well one day and swimming in circles or floating upside down and then continued to die slowly. After several years of futile attempts I decided to quit. I did. As I got to thinking about it and why I could be so successful and yet fail so miserably. After much thought I got one of those AAAHA moments. I recalled that with all my fish I fed flakes, brine shrimp, worms of all sorts, even bits of liver. My recent failures found me feeding these little pebbles of dried food. So, I started to think about dried kibble and all the problems with animals. We had multiple cats. Our vet always recommended kibble. The males all had urinary tract plugging. This required extreme measures and kept recurring for years. So we stopped feeding kibble and turned to wet food and some table scraps. Never again had urinary tract problems. Well, I wonder, I said to myself, so I set up another aquarium with a few varieties of fish and goldfish, went back to shrimp, liver bits, flakes and frozen worms. My latest foray into fish and all are alive now for 6 years and counting. Well, since I bought my latest shepherd and the memory of the last one, I decided to feed raw and no kibble. Chicken backs, necks, parts, beef ribs, eggs, some prepared raw diets, etc. NO DRY FOOD! This is not a scientific study, but it is a 6 decades of animals and thinking about the successes and failures. All of the problems I had were with animals on dry food diets. Just take kibble and rehydrate it for a couple hours and see what it turns into. So the animal gulps its food, fills up slowly because it is so small and when it re-hydrates in the stomach and intestine it forms a massive bolus of concrete. I will feed nothing that will re hydrate as it enters the stomach and intestines. I am convinced that what I fed was the cause of all the early and tortuous deaths of all these animals.

 

[fkeeley]

Now that's interesting observation. I'm wondering if I was to moist the dry food prior to giving it to my dog, would that work as well? I believe, at least on my situation, that i need to give kibbles because I want to make sure that my dog gets the right amount of protein, carbs, vitamins, etc. I don't have time to be preparing food and I'm not familiar with raw. But I never want to go through what I went through with my dog. He didn't die of bloat, but i worried so much for the rest of his life, bless his heart. It's so painful to see it happen.

 

[kkalligher]

It certainly will help. But you really don't have to worry a lot about vitamins and minerals. If you are feeding multiple protein sources: Beef, Chicken, Lamb, Buffalo, Rabbit whatever is available in your area, plus organs and some table scraps you don't have to worry much about balance. They will do fine. Problem is the pet food companies have us all fearful of imbalance. They keep throwing all that junk at us. It's the old Hitler strategy: If you lie often and repeat it often, people will believe it. It's baloney! Don't eat baloney at all, too many chemicals.

 

[LisaT]

Now that's interesting observation. I'm wondering if I was to moist the dry food prior to giving it to my dog, would that work as well?

A number of dog owners do just that, for just that reason. There is probably mention of it somewhere in this thread.

 

[LDB158]

After reading some of this, I really think Trixie may have bloated. She was a lab/border collie mix and was 10 years old. She hated meeting new people and dogs. Friends of mine had come over with their dog and she saw the dog in our yard through the fence and started going nuts. That night, she had thrown up about 5 times in a 1 hour time period and it was mucousy and clearish looking. After that she just kept dry heaving and nothing would come up. She also would not eat any of her food or treats. I took her to the vet and told them I worried about bloat, the vet said that she didn't display the distended abdomen and she would be in extreme pain if she was bloated. She just gave me something to help with her nausea.

A couple of days later, I took her back to the vet because she was still not eating and started having seizures. She also was having a hard time breathing if she was just sitting still. Found out, that she had lung cancer, which the vet believed stemmed from a brain tumor. I had to put her down, because the vet said the medication she would give me would kill her in a couple of days, since she wasn't eating (would cause stomach ulcers/bleeding). I'm just wondering if the throwing up was caused by bloat, or maybe just because she wasn't feeling good at all within her final days.


Just wondering, what all do you have in your cabinets to assist in preventing bloat? What would be the best type of dry food to feed? What homeopathic remedies do yall keep on hand? I've read some people say something about charcoal and Gas-x - Is this Gas-X and Charcoal for people, or is there doggy types? (Excuse my ignorance). I have two german shepherds now and they are my life. I just recently got a german shepherd 2 days ago and she's still skittish and nervous all the time, so she's the one I am most worried about right now.

 

[LisaT]

Dogs will throw up for lots of reasons - cancer will make them sick to their stomach, particularly when it is advanced. It sounds more likely that your dear Trixie was sufferering more from the cancer, though bloat can't be ruled out, sometimes tumors pressing the wrong way can cause some bloating.

Both the Gas-X and the activated charcoal that folks use are the types used for humans. They won't help if the dog has torsioned, if the stomach has twisted, but best to give it on the way to the vet, or at the first signs of discomfort. Charcoal will absorb nutrients and medicine, so that is best given away from food or meds.

 

[GSDLoverII]

Adding Kaiser's Bloat Thread for reference.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/134046-kaiser-bloated-tonight.html

Also, adding Gretchen's (Ania's dog)Bloat thread that may be on here already.
I was looking all over for it to find the soft ecollar info.
Thanks Ania, and how is Gretchen doing almost a year later?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/107711-gretchen-bloated-20-stomach-removed.html

 

[GSDLoverII]

"When the dogs have dental or veterinary appointments, the handlers are there right alongside their dogs. The U.S. Army Europe Military Working Dog Program is in the process of making sure all dogs have a gastropexy operation, a surgical procedure performed on large-breed dogs to prevent bloat, a life-threatening condition in which the stomach flips over and expands, trapping air and gases in the stomach."

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=51700

 

[Sharbel]

There was research done out of Purdue a number of years ago and all they found was elevating the food dish might increase the risk of bloating, yet there are a lot of people that swear by raising the dish. There isn't any evidence that wet food, dry food, water drinking, or anything really affects it, it is just a crap shoot as to who is going to bloat and who isn't.

My personal opinion is to not elevate a food dish above the point that the dog doesn't have his head all the way down. By this, I am talking about feeding the older dog that has trouble bending all the way to the floor to eat. I will put my dish on an upside-down icecream bucket to ease their necks but not elevate too much. I also am careful about exercise right before or after eating. I want my dogs to be calm with a resting heart rate and resting temperature.

Elaine you are absolutely correct. I feed Richie on stand that is 30 cm off the flloor. His neck while eating is slightly bend downwards as he is a tall dog. To eat from a dish on the floor is little hard due to his size although to serve him something extra like cooked meat on top of his meal which is ALWAYS for 6 1/2 years dry Royal Canin German Shepherd 24 (two full swallow dishes tiwice a day one in the morning and one after his walk at night) with a topping of Pedigree wet food .

The water is always nearby BUT he ( by himself and not because of me) NEVER eats or drinks immediately after a walk or exercise but waits for at leat 15 minutes to 1/2 hour before he drinks and 1 hour before he eats. Of course playing my part I will NEVER give him food 1 hour before going to walk or exercise. If I do then we will pospone walking and / or exersise.

And a final note: for 6 1/2 years before his morning meal since I got him at the age of 2 months he drinks half a liter of fresh cow milk. No diarhea,no lose stools no health problems. Dry Food topped with wet food plus half a liter of milk in the morning and always fresh clean water by his dishes!! And some grilled meat and bones once a week.
Bloating occurs ONLY when FEEDING and EXERCISE are too near each other by less than 1 hour. The water is only dangerous soon after a walk or exrersice or soon after feeding.

These dogs if directed to a minimum and left to regulate by themselves are alwys self adjusting on everything they do!!!

 

[goatdude]

How about eliminating grain in the food? Would it be wise especially with any breed susceptible to bloat to eliminate grain?

 

[Samba]

Since, at least theoretically, grains can ferment and create more gas in the stomach, it sounds like a reasonable thing.

 

[Cassidy's Mom]

Bloating occurs ONLY when FEEDING and EXERCISE are too near each other by less than 1 hour.

Unfortunately, that's not true. Many, many dogs bloat for no apparent reason, there was even one dog here on the board that I recall bloated in the middle of the night on an empty stomach, hours after eating OR exercise, and plenty of others who did all the right things and their dogs still bloated. If it were so simple to prevent, bloat wouldn't be nearly as common as it is.

 

[Samba]

If only it were so simple! Both of mine had normal quiet household days with nothing out of the ordinary or exercise. I can not detect a "formula" as the darn thing seems multifactorial.

 

[kensbuns1]

Neither of those things happened with our dog. He did drink alot of water, but no heavy exercise. He was very stress however because our Grandchildren and their mother came to live with us. So I dont know what exactly we know about bloat other than if the dog gets it go to the vet fast and have a huge allowance on your CC.

 

[FuryanGoddess]

We don't know what caused Lady to bloat. Joe thinks that maybe she dug up on old bone and got impacted? She had dug a big hole under the porch the day before. We fed her like normal... she started making weird noises and my hubs tossed her outside on the deck in the middle of the night... thought she was just hot and restless. Lady preferred to be outside.... I got up in the morning, saw she was outside, thought somehow she ran away and was back w/ her tail between her legs, lookin' all guilty. I put her in her kennel. She died in their by noon. Poor girl It was a year ago on the 20th.

 

[3K9Mom]

Unfortunately, that's not true. Many, many dogs bloat for no apparent reason, there was even one dog here on the board that I recall bloated in the middle of the night on an empty stomach, hours after eating OR exercise, and plenty of others who did all the right things and their dogs still bloated. If it were so simple to prevent, bloat wouldn't be nearly as common as it is.

Worth repeating. My dog bloated at 4:30 pm. She last ate at about 9am. She was resting in the back seat of the car, snoozing on and off. She loved to go for drives...she grew up cruising around in a car: we were always travelling somewhere. So she wasn't stressed. She started to salivate heavily, then drool like someone turned on a faucet.

No water. No food. No exercise. No stress. Happy calm sleepy dog.

Not a GSD. Not even a breed predisposed to GDV.

I had Gas-X with me in my bag AWAY FROM HOME -- because dogs can bloat away from home. It does no good if it's in your kitchen or bathroom cabinet.

That Gas-X, having memorized the list of symptoms, and certainly some amazing work by my veterinarians saved her life that day.

In the end, months later, bloat took her life. But we had several good months, with great memories. And she taught me a valuable lesson -- anytime, anywhere under any conditions -- and ANY dog -- bloat can strike.

Once we accept this, we'll prepare for the worst. If it never happens, great. If it does, you'll know exactly what to do, where to go, and you'll have enough lots of current (unexpired) Gas-X to buy you time.

 

[JudynRich]

When my children were babies I worried about SIDS, now with my girls, I worry about bloat. Does anyone have any information on the rates of bloat with dogs eating the raw diet? Mia and Bella are getting spayed in June and I am considering asking my vet about attaching their stomach (like they do in the army). My other shephed lived to be 12. I never worried much about bloat with her since I knew very little about it. My neighbor lost her Irish Setter to bloat, my brother lost his Weinmariner last year to bloat.