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Just remember these are all only 'stats' & not 'cides' when it comes to Giardia & Coccidia, so if your dog is not 'immune competent', the G & C may persist despite repeat treatments (generally at levels that are likely non-detectable in fecals - tho G SNAP should still 'work').
Treatment is then based upon improving the overall health of the dog & hopefully boosting the immune system so that the G/C is finally 'eradicated' (I suspect that intestinal sampling would reveal that G & C are always present in the gut of otherwise healthy dogs, just numbers are very low due to immune competence).
 
Discussion starter · #82 ·
That sounds like what the internist was telling us on Tuesday, and it completely makes sense to me. When he's done with the course of zithromax, we're going to keep him off all meds for a while and just use the probiotics and see if we can get him feeling better just by being patient.

The TLI came back within normal range, so we're not dealing with EPI (which I almost wish we were). I faxed the results to the internist, so we'll see if there's anything else he wants to do, or if he thinks we should try to wait it out and find a diet that works for him.
 
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No you don't wish it was EPI - in a dog this young it is almost always a death sentence.

I would bet you are dealing with coccidia, especially since you are in San Diego and we have had a bunch of rains recently. Most of the people I know with pups have been battling this lately. If it were my pup I would treat him for coccidia anyway.
 
Discussion starter · #84 ·
I know, it's just my frustration speaking. We just want to know what's going on with him. =(

We can give him albon and see if that does anything I suppose. I'll talk to the doctor on staff at work today and see if she'll prescribe it for me.
 
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Hi PuffinGirl

can you do a timeline summary for Jones (I think that's your pup's name) since you got him?
List:
Date/Time/Age
Food
Poop Status
Interventions - food changes, probiotics, vet visits, meds etc
Effect of Intervention - eg, even more liquid pooh, itchy ears, sleepy etc

I'd do this in MS etc so that I could dump it into a graphing program & see if there are any correlations that aren't visible when it's just words. Of course poop etc status is just objective so you need to start rating it as you pick it up
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eg, 1-6 with 1 being solid, & 6 being liquid, explosive diarrhea (where dog has no control over when/where & there is a spatter pattern) gets a 10!

A journal like this can visualize trends & possible allergies - I'm surprised if none of the vets have suggested it
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Do you have a holistic vet on board? or a 'regular' vet that's intrigued ...

I would not jump into the Albon Tx.
 
I suggest it because I am in San Diego and it is a huge problem here, especially it seems after we have rains. Many vets don't test for it and I had puppies tested that I knew had it and the fecals when first run were negative. They ran them again and called me up telling me I had to come back and get meds because they did find coccidia in the stool.

I know alot of breeders and rescues who have had problems with it. The OP also frequents dog parks so I would be that the pup is picking something up there.
 
Discussion starter · #89 ·
Originally Posted By: GS MomI suggest it because I am in San Diego and it is a huge problem here, especially it seems after we have rains. Many vets don't test for it and I had puppies tested that I knew had it and the fecals when first run were negative. They ran them again and called me up telling me I had to come back and get meds because they did find coccidia in the stool.

I know alot of breeders and rescues who have had problems with it. The OP also frequents dog parks so I would be that the pup is picking something up there.
He only started going to the dog park 6 days ago, so I know that that's not the root of the problem.

Because we've run so many fecals, I don't think he could possibly have it. If it does show up in fecals, then it would have shown up in one of the many that we had done.
 
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Discussion starter · #90 ·
Originally Posted By: AltoHi PuffinGirl

can you do a timeline summary for Jones (I think that's your pup's name) since you got him?
List:
Date/Time/Age
Food
Poop Status
Interventions - food changes, probiotics, vet visits, meds etc
Effect of Intervention - eg, even more liquid pooh, itchy ears, sleepy etc

I'd do this in MS etc so that I could dump it into a graphing program & see if there are any correlations that aren't visible when it's just words. Of course poop etc status is just objective so you need to start rating it as you pick it up
Image
eg, 1-6 with 1 being solid, & 6 being liquid, explosive diarrhea (where dog has no control over when/where & there is a spatter pattern) gets a 10!

A journal like this can visualize trends & possible allergies - I'm surprised if none of the vets have suggested it
Image


Do you have a holistic vet on board? or a 'regular' vet that's intrigued ...

I would not jump into the Albon Tx.
Oh my gosh - I don't know that there's any way I could go back and recreate that type of timeline with enough certainty that it would be helpful. This has been such a long process and so many things have been done/tried, that I wouldn't even know where to start. It would have been helpful if someone had suggested it, but I don't think anyone expected us to still be having these problems.

We don't have a holistic vet, but my personal vet I work for is pretty enlightened, and the internist we recently brought on board is highly respected and an excellent doctor.
 
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Originally Posted By: PuffinGirl
Originally Posted By: LisaT
Originally Posted By: PuffinGirl.....
The TLI came back within normal range, so we're not dealing with EPI ....
What was the actual value?
It was 7.5. Low end of normal, but normal.

I would think that a puppy should have a higher end TLI, much like younger dogs should have higher thyroid hormones. That TLI may change. For example, Max's first test was about 16, and 2 years later it was about 10.

We have someone on the board whose dog was low normal (5.9 - ish?) and they treated for EPI and the dog responded. So, a couple of thoughts. You could try, for a few meals, some pancreatic enzymes (capsules) and see if it makes a difference. The second thought, is that this most likely is something you will need to monitor. I think that *in susceptible dogs*, over time,these GSDs lose TLI function, and your pup is starting at low normal. You won't know for awhile whether your dog is one of the susceptible ones.
 
Discussion starter · #92 ·
The vet I worked with today suggested that we could try the enzymes just on the off chance that they might work. I think once we get him off the antibiotics and give him a little bit to rebound, we might try them.

And that's good to know that we should monitor his TLI. It's an easy enough test to do on a periodic basis.
 
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What about rice and cooked ground beef/turkey? I know my dogs will pick out any chicken and leave the rice if I don't use ground meats and mix in. I also add in some broth occasionally as well - or juices from when I cooked the meat.
 
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Discussion starter · #96 ·
He actually seems to be doing a bit better on the latest food we have him on - Pinnacle Trout and Potato. He had a normalish poop this morning and a semi formed poop this afternoon, which is a big improvement. We're giving him the last of his zithromax, giving him probiotics, the food, and that's all. We're going to leave him on this food for a couple weeks (assuming no major problems) and see how he does. Hopefully his poop continues to firm up and maybe he'll even put on a little weight.
 
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Discussion starter · #98 ·
Hahaha...that's our plan. =) Poor puppy has been through so much in the past couple months, that we're hoping the right food and a break from all meds will be a step in the right direction.
 
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Discussion starter · #100 ·
Thank you! =) We do too! Though I must admit, if the past couple months are what he's like when he's not 100%, I can't imagine what it's going to be like when he's completely healthy. He's already such a handful! =)
 
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