[RosiesPaw]

Incredible!
Maybe some day, after we move home, dog # 2…

 

[Apex1]

Carmen is God's gift to the GSD and they to her. Also God's gift to the eyes of those who read and heed her words. I've never had the pleasure of meeting her but I know it would be my privilege. Incredible women. Read everyone of her post more then once. Such a wise and experienced women. Hope she knows how admired and thankful I am for her life's work. I could listen to her talk dogs endlessly 💓

 

[Carter Smith]

Carmen is God's gift to the GSD and they to her. Also God's gift to the eyes of those who read and heed her words. I've never had the pleasure of meeting her but I know it would be my privilege. Incredible women. Read everyone of her post more then once. Such a wise and experienced women. Hope she knows how admired and thankful I am for her life's work. I could listen to her talk dogs endlessly 💓

Completely agree Apex. Every time I call her, even for the simplest thing around nutrition or stool, calls regularly go on for 45mins to an hour. Her mind is incredible, she can recall exact conversations she had from the 80’s. She truly loves this breed. I shared some feedback from this thread with her and she let out a gasp of appreciation, I think she really valued this platform.

 

[SitUbuSit]

So nice to see a Carmen post! What a great photo. There is nothing better than a well bred GSD.

My girl is not a Carmspack bred dog, but she has a similar disposition. Biddable, discerning, preternaturally aware of where I am and where the kids are. (I will tell her to “go find your boy” when my young son is somewhere out in the yard or garden, and she understands what that means with zero training) She is the definition of “bomb proof”. I laughed when CarSmith described it as “preprogrammed” because that’s exactly what it’s like.

Please send Carmen my sincerest best wishes! I sure miss reading her on here, but am grateful for the wealth of knowledge that she has already shared (and that is searchable in this forum)!

 

[Carter Smith]

So nice to see a Carmen post! What a great photo. There is nothing better than a well bred GSD.

My girl is not a Carmspack bred dog, but she has a similar disposition. Biddable, discerning, preternaturally aware of where I am and where the kids are. (I will tell her to “go find your boy” when my young son is somewhere out in the yard or garden, and she understands what that means with zero training) She is the definition of “bomb proof”. I laughed when CarSmith described it as “preprogrammed” because that’s exactly what it’s like.

Please send Carmen my sincerest best wishes! I sure miss reading her on here, but am grateful for the wealth of knowledge that she has already shared (and that is searchable in this forum)!

It’s nice hearing all the nice things people have to say, I’ll have to call her again and let her know.. I called prematurely lol.

I say “where are your girls” to Ellie about my young daughters.. Ellie is especially fond of my oldest, every morning I go to wake her up Ellie books up the stairs with me and digs her from under the cover for kisses.. and then rams her head repeatedly threw the crib bars of our youngest 🤣

 

[Sabis mom]

It’s nice hearing all the nice things people have to say, I’ll have to call her again and let her know.. I called prematurely lol.

I say “where are your girls” to Ellie about my young daughters.. Ellie is especially fond of my oldest, every morning I go to wake her up Ellie books up the stairs with me and digs her from under the cover for kisses.. and then rams her head repeatedly threw the crib bars of our youngest 🤣

You know, It's sort of funny. Long before I found this forum I found Carmspack. Unfortunately when I reached out to ask about her dogs she did not respond. Then I lost Sabi, lost my mind, got wrapped up dealing with Shadow and well, life goes on.
I think it's a bit sad that Canada has so very few decent breeders.
I miss Carmen's knowledge and her no crap way of communicating on this forum. We disagreed on about everything but she was fun to debate with!
I will be getting a pup at some point and if you speak to Carmen you can let her know that I will get that obedience title that I promised her I would. She was complaining that this breed is under represented in obedience and they shouldn't be.

 

[Carter Smith]

You know, It's sort of funny. Long before I found this forum I found Carmspack. Unfortunately when I reached out to ask about her dogs she did not respond. Then I lost Sabi, lost my mind, got wrapped up dealing with Shadow and well, life goes on.
I think it's a bit sad that Canada has so very few decent breeders.
I miss Carmen's knowledge and her no crap way of communicating on this forum. We disagreed on about everything but she was fun to debate with!
I will be getting a pup at some point and if you speak to Carmen you can let her know that I will get that obedience title that I promised her I would. She was complaining that this breed is under represented in obedience and they shouldn't be.

If that’s still accurate I’d agree, they are so smart.. i did some trick classes with my GR, it was fun.. I bet Ellie would just crush it, and enjoy it. I love seeing GSD’s in venues that show off their versatility.. like cava in flyball or ozzy dock diving.
The first time I spoke to Carmen she told me about an obedience trial she did and it was near perfect but she lost points for some lactation issues.

 

[Sunsilver]

My first GSDs were rescues and did not have pedigrees.
Since prior to getting my first dog, Lili, I'd only ever worked with horses, I signed up for an obedience class with Scarborough Dog Training Associates.

After 4 weeks of obedience with them SDA had a fun match. It was at the Novice level while we'd be working at the Beginners' Level. I decided to enter anyway. Lili had never done the 3 minute long down before, and there were SO many dogs in the class that there was barely room for my feet between her and the dog beside her! She put her head down on her feet, and never budged for the whole 3 minutes! We scored and awesome 275 out of 300 points!

Then there was Ranger. If you showed him something two or three times, he had it cold! I trained him as my Hearing Ear dog, and I had to hire someone to teach him to respond to the door appropriately. His previous owner had kept him outside, tied to his kennel with an 8 foot chain, so he had no idea what a doorbell or knock on the door meant.

Within 15 minutes, the trainer had him responding to the door. She then said, "Well, you've paid me for a full hour. What else do you want to teach him? How about the kitchen timer?"

We did two trials with the timer. I'd hold a treat in my hand and when Ranger heard the timer, he had to nudge me to get the treat. After two trials, I said, "You know, I use that timer once in a blue moon. Let's make sure he's proofed on the important stuff, like the alarm clock and smoke alarm."

A couple of months later, I was timing some fish in the oven, and had the timer right next to me, to make sure I could hear it. As soon as it went off, Ranger came and nudge me. I looked at him in astonishment, having totally forgotten about those two trials with the timer. I thought he was generalizing between the timer and other things that went 'beep'. It took me awhile to remember what the trainer had done with him! No papers, no pedigree, just GSD smarts! I asked Clifford what he thought his breeding might be, and he said he looked like old American lines, prior to Lance of Fran-Jo.

Just some of the reasons I love this breed... 😍

 

[Carter Smith]

My first GSDs were rescues and did not have pedigrees.
Since prior to getting my first dog, Lili, I'd only ever worked with horses, I signed up for an obedience class with Scarborough Dog Training Associates.

After 4 weeks of obedience with them SDA had a fun match. It was at the Novice level while we'd be working at the Beginners' Level. I decided to enter anyway. Lili had never done the 3 minute long down before, and there were SO many dogs in the class that there was barely room for my feet between her and the dog beside her! She put her head down on her feet, and never budged for the whole 3 minutes! We scored and awesome 275 out of 300 points!

Then there was Ranger. If you showed him something two or three times, he had it cold! I trained him as my Hearing Ear dog, and I had to hire someone to teach him to respond to the door appropriately. His previous owner had kept him outside, tied to his kennel with an 8 foot chain, so he had no idea what a doorbell or knock on the door meant.

Within 15 minutes, the trainer had him responding to the door. She then said, "Well, you've paid me for a full hour. What else do you want to teach him? How about the kitchen timer?"

We did two trials with the timer. I'd hold a treat in my hand and when Ranger heard the timer, he had to nudge me to get the treat. After two trials, I said, "You know, I use that timer once in a blue moon. Let's make sure he's proofed on the important stuff, like the alarm clock and smoke alarm."

A couple of months later, I was timing some fish in the oven, and had the timer right next to me, to make sure I could hear it. As soon as it went off, Ranger came and nudge me. I looked at him in astonishment, having totally forgotten about those two trials with the timer. I thought he was generalizing between the timer and other things that went 'beep'. It took me awhile to remember what the trainer had done with him! No papers, no pedigree, just GSD smarts! I asked Clifford what he thought his breeding might be, and he said he looked like old American lines, prior to Lance of Fran-Jo.

Just some of the reasons I love this breed... 😍

That’s pretty cool, there are some really remarkable dogs in this breed.

 

[WNGD]

You know, It's sort of funny. Long before I found this forum I found Carmspack. Unfortunately when I reached out to ask about her dogs she did not respond. Then I lost Sabi, lost my mind, got wrapped up dealing with Shadow and well, life goes on.
I think it's a bit sad that Canada has so very few decent breeders.
I miss Carmen's knowledge and her no crap way of communicating on this forum. We disagreed on about everything but she was fun to debate with!
I will be getting a pup at some point and if you speak to Carmen you can let her know that I will get that obedience title that I promised her I would. She was complaining that this breed is under represented in obedience and they shouldn't be.

Just wondering how we know there are so few decent breeders in Canada? There are what, a few dozen Canadian GSD owners on this site and how many (tens of?) thousands representatives of the breed are in this country?

As an example, I have only heard of a single one of these breeders in the link (Dei Precision, who I think had kind of a bad rep) on this site and have no idea if the rest are fantastic or questionable. But wouldn't there be hundreds of small breeders that few have heard of....it's a pretty massive country

German Shepherd Dog Breeders - Canada's Guide to Dogs

German Shepherd puppies. German Shepherd breeders in Canada - BC, Alberta, Sask, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, PEI, Newfoundland

canadasguidetodogs.com

 

[Sabis mom]

Just wondering how we know there are so few decent breeders in Canada? There are what, a few dozen Canadian GSD owners on this site and how many (tens of?) thousands representatives of the breed are in this country?

That list is published every year. Registered breeders pay to be on it. As we all know purebred and well bred are worlds apart.
I just took a quick glance through some Canadian breeder websites.
-Only suitable for working homes
-finest bloodlines in Germany, but no titles
-breeding at 16months
-reg numbers missing from pedigrees
-11 litters in two years

With the litter swapping that was done throughout Alberta I would need a rock solid recommendation from some I knew and trusted before I would even consider any of them. One of the very vocal IGP clubs in Southern Alberta is run by a breeder who just a few years ago was flogging her unregistered pups on Kijiji, and another one is trading of a history that I know is bogus, because according to his bio he was trained by my former employer AND handled the patrol dog that was assigned to me.
Two breeders in Sask are also guilty of litter swapping.
Ontario is full of "FB famous" breeders. I know several people who went down that road.
I have been checking into breeders and groups in the Maritimes and it isn't looking good. A decidedly BYB-ish look.
The good news is we have Bullinger on the west coast, and a few good ones holding steady in Ontario and Quebec. As you said, it's a big country and the small number of ethical and knowledgeable breeders is crazy. Think about it, from Nova Scotia to BC a majority of the working line dogs I see came from Wendelin or the US. A guy I work with here in Dartmouth has a Bullinger dog.

 

[Sunsilver]

The problem with the show lines is all the backmassing on a very small number of dogs. Star was half German show line - even she had Palme vom Wildsteigerland 14 times in her pedigree! I have heard far too many times of show line dogs dropping dead unexpectedly at a young age. X-Box dei Precision was one such dog. He passed at age 8 or 9, and the cause was never stated as far as I know. X-box Dei Precision

 

[Carter Smith]

The problem with the show lines is all the backmassing on a very small number of dogs. Star was half German show line - even she had Palme vom Wildsteigerland 14 times in her pedigree! I have heard far too many times of show line dogs dropping dead unexpectedly at a young age. X-Box dei Precision was one such dog. He passed at age 8 or 9, and the cause was never stated as far as I know. X-box Dei Precision

I cannot believe how exaggerated the slope got.. I wonder if the powers that be have any interest in making it one breed again and not have such drastic differences amongst the breed.

 

[Carter Smith]

@Sabis mom I really think it just depends on what people are looking for.. @Hineni7 works her dogs and just got a working prospect from a breeder in BC. I think you need to find a breeder you like, talk to them and see if you align, build a relationship, and ultimately if you trust that person then go for it. Finding people with dogs out of them obviously helps, No one should be able to pick a breeder off the internet, unless you are someone with loads of experience and you know the pedigree.. then you’re probably not looking on the internet for a breeder.

 

[Sabis mom]

@Sabis mom I really think it just depends on what people are looking for.. @Hineni7 works her dogs and just got a working prospect from a breeder in BC. I think you need to find a breeder you like, talk to them and see if you align, build a relationship, and ultimately if you trust that person then go for it. Finding people with dogs out of them obviously helps, No one should be able to pick a breeder off the internet, unless you are someone with loads of experience and you know the pedigree.. then you’re probably not looking on the internet for a breeder.

I did not say those were the ONLY breeders, but think of the thousands of GSD's across the country. I also did not mention @UnlimitedGSD, who is very active in her area. Ask her how many dozens of breeders she screened trying to allow only reputable ones to list litters. I initially searched out well over 20 Canadian breeders to contact. They all LOOKED good. Guess how many did any health testing. Twelve. Of those twelve, seven only did hips. Not one was testing for DM.
If I did that same search now I could maybe find a dozen in the whole country. How many of those would meet MY other criteria?
Keep in mind that I was not looking for show lines, which fare slightly better and I have zero interest in sport dogs. I was looking for a companion with work ability since my initial plan was to remain active in detection work.

I think you need to find a breeder you like, talk to them and see if you align, build a relationship, and ultimately if you trust that person then go for it.

The big problem with this is that loads of them talk a really good game. Does the buyer have the knowledge to see through the talk?

 

[Carter Smith]

I did not say those were the ONLY breeders, but think of the thousands of GSD's across the country. I also did not mention @UnlimitedGSD, who is very active in her area. Ask her how many dozens of breeders she screened trying to allow only reputable ones to list litters. I initially searched out well over 20 Canadian breeders to contact. They all LOOKED good. Guess how many did any health testing. Twelve. Of those twelve, seven only did hips. Not one was testing for DM.
If I did that same search now I could maybe find a dozen in the whole country. How many of those would meet MY other criteria?
Keep in mind that I was not looking for show lines, which fare slightly better and I have zero interest in sport dogs. I was looking for a companion with work ability since my initial plan was to remain active in detection work.



The big problem with this is that loads of them talk a really good game. Does the buyer have the knowledge to see through the talk?

I’m not disagreeing I think you’re probably right, I’m just saying I think getting to know them helps, well in advance of when you actually want a puppy. I think you could tick off all the boxes you want on a breeder.. and end up with something you didn’t set out for.. unless you have forums like these to share your experience.

 

[Sunsilver]

I cannot believe how exaggerated the slope got.. I wonder if the powers that be have any interest in making it one breed again and not have such drastic differences amongst the breed.

Carter Smith, nope. I have to confess - that's the reason I bought a dog that was a mix of German and American lines. I was told there was absolutely NO way she'd ever win ribbons in either show ring. I'd have to breed her to either a German or American dog, then show the offspring in whichever venue the father was from.

Another thing that really bugs me - I attended the obedience trials at the Canadian GSD nationals. Very few German shepherds were competing. It was mostly other breeds, and the GSDs competing were not being shown in the show ring. So, we are breeding dogs that may have no working ability at all, except to know how to run around a ring, trotting as fast as they can... 🤬

At least the Canadian club now has the requirement that a GSD must have passed a temperament test, and have at least one working/obedience degree in order to go Select. Carmen and a few others fought long and hard for that, against considerable opposition!

 

[Carter Smith]

Carter Smith, nope. I have to confess - that's the reason I bought a dog that was a mix of German and American lines. I was told there was absolutely NO way she'd ever win ribbons in either show ring. I'd have to breed her to either a German or American dog, then show the offspring in whichever venue the father was from.

Another thing that really bugs me - I attended the obedience trials at the Canadian GSD nationals. Very few German shepherds were competing. It was mostly other breeds, and the GSDs competing were not being shown in the show ring. So, we are breeding dogs that may have no working ability at all, except to know how to run around a ring, trotting as fast as they can... 🤬

At least the Canadian club now has the requirement that a GSD must have passed a temperament test, and have at least one working/obedience degree in order to go Select. Carmen and a few others fought long and hard for that, against considerable opposition!

I didn’t know the last part, that sounds like a good thing to me. It’s to bad the demand for most breeds not just GSD this day is “lazy couch dog good for TikTok videos”. No one wants the dogs for what they were bred for.

 

[Carter Smith]

@Sunsilver as a continuation of my reply, even my GR.. their is no more joy I get then seeing him retrieve things out of the water, it’s such a good feeling fulfilling a dogs deep innate desire. Ellie this morning, because of all the rain we’ve had I threw her ball into a a puddle and it skipped out and went rolling across some asphalt, I watched her scent the water!! And then the asphalt after, I was blown away and so happy all at the same time.. good feelings.

 

[UnlimitedGSD]

It's my opinion (and people won't like this) that it isn't the fault of the breeders, but the fault of the buyers. I know from experience that people just don't give a sh*t what the producing dogs have accomplished, what health certifications they have or if they've even ever been taken off their own property! This keeps crappy breeders in business.
I gave up trying to put together a list of Canadian breeders who do what they should and now just have a webpage for litters who have (minimum) registration and certified (and I check) hips/elbows. My FB group is full of people trying to recommend breeders who do nothing or next to it before they breed and I just got tired of it.
Education and knowledge is key, but 90% of people ask after they buy