[Jax08]

Nobody should be breeding outside the standard. And Panda's are outside the standard.

 

[Kathrynil]

@Jax08

The Panda German Shepherd

bradfordsk-9corral.com

it took me one minute to find this. I can't stand places like this. They had a liver/panda shepherd there!!! Livers are considered very bad when it comes to German Shepherds, but you probably already know that.

 

[Whiteshepherds]

The Panda German Shepherd

bradfordsk-9corral.com

it took me one minute to find this. I can't stand places like this. They had a liver/panda shepherd there!!! Livers are considered very bad when it comes to German Shepherds, but you probably already know that.

Not suggesting they should be bred, but do you know why they're considered bad?

 

[Jax08]

Why are Livers considered very bad? Yes the color is not in the standard but they do pop up in good litters. Nothing is "bad" unless you are breeding out of the standard purposely. The breeder of my male had a liver in one of her litters. That dog is doing sport and living a good life. He just won't be bred.

 

[Kathrynil]

@ Jax08:

Blue & Panda German Shepherds for Sale in Florida

Ruskin House of Shepherds is proud to be an AKC registered Breeder of purebred Blue & Panda German Shepherds in Florida. Click here to view our handsome adult males!

www.ruskinhouseofshepherds.com

AKC White & Liver German Shepherds for Sale in Florida

Check out our current AKC registered, purebred Female Adults here at Ruskin House of Shepherds in a variety of colors including White, Liver & Panda. Click here to see more!

www.ruskinhouseofshepherds.com

The first few look okay, but scroll down and you'll get blues, husky colored ones, SOLID LIVERS, and total panda everywhere. Not to mention to the prong collars so loose that you could take it off the dog's head with two inches of room to spare. Talk about unprofessional!

(this drives me really nuts.)

Whiteshepherds: "Coat Colors that are: "Pale or Washed Out, Blues, Livers are Serious Faults" -http://vonkazmaier.com/?id=689 (a professional GSD site)

Marked as "other" in AKC registrations. Don't know why liver is bad, it just isn't recommended or liked among good breeders or the AKC.

 

[Kathrynil]

I think it's crazy, but I'm very opinionated when it comes to breeding of GSDs.

 

[Jax08]

I think before having an opinion, you need to understand the why.

First, I keep my prong collar loose depending on what I'm doing. Second, I don't need to look at the links. I know what colors are standard, what is not and why. The only reason liver and blues are not accepted is the leather on a shepherd has to be black. Liver and blues have faded leather. Their noses are either grey or brown depending on the color. LIver and blue come from a dilute gene. Liver is a dilute. Blue is a double dilute. Some people think the blue comes with skin issues but that is not true. It may in other breeds but not in the GSD.

Again - anyone that breeds purposely for dogs not of the standard is not a good thing. Color, size, working ability, etc. However, the colors can pop up on litters from good breeders because those are recessive genes that are part of our breed. It doesn't make the dog bad. Just means they shouldn't be bred. My male's father has had a liver pop up in a litter. He's the 2015 WUSV champion. It happens sometimes and good breeders put those dogs in homes that won't breed them.

 

[Kathrynil]

I've heard that they have to have black noses. Is this what you mean by leather?

 

[Jax08]

I've heard that they have to have black noses. Is this what you mean by leather?

Nose, paw pads are "leather"

 

[Kathrynil]

I kind of thought so.
I'm not saying dogs who are not within breed standard should be disposed of or anything, I'm just saying that the people that breed those pop-ups are really unprofessional and that I do not believe that is good.

Also, if you have a prong collar on a working dog that is so loose that it is lying on the shoulders with inches to spare, that is someone who has not learned how to used a prong collar, or who is not taking it off after a training lesson. That. Is bad.

 

[Jax08]

Breed Standards | United Schutzhund Clubs of America

The United Schutzhund Clubs of America (USCA) is a German Shepherd Dog Breed Organization guided by the rules of the organization of origin of the German Shepherd Dog, the “Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV)” in Germany. USCA is a member of the “World Union of German Shepherd Dog Clubs” and...

www.germanshepherddog.com

 

[Kathrynil]

Read it. Does the USCA go my the AKC standards, or do they have their own?

 

[Jax08]

The USCA goes by the SV standard. The SV is the German Club who sets the standard. I have no idea what the AKC standards are. They aren't the breed club so it's irrelevant to me but I have heard they differ from the SV standard.

 

[Kathrynil]

oh. I thought the AKC was the main club. I guess it's not.

 

[Whiteshepherds]

Marked as "other" in AKC registrations.

The AKC registration form has a section for color. I guess someone can write down "other" (??) but the AKC does provide data for the following colors in the GSD breed; Bi-Color, Black, Black/Cream, Black/Red, Black/Silver, Black/Tan, Blue, Gray, Liver, Sable, Tan, White

They are very slack with their standards compared to USCA and SV.

The content of the SV vs AKC breed standards aren't all that different, they're just formatted differently.

 

[Jax08]

Nope. AKC is ONLY a breed registry in the U.S. GSDCA is the GSD club in the U.S. SV is the breed club in Germany. USCA is a sport club that follows the SV standards and regulations.

And then there is the FCI which is a whole other story.

In Germany, all sables are called gray. Black/tans and bi colors are just black and tans. The Americans seem to feel the need to add a ton of variations (cream, red, silver, tan. red sable, black sable, grey sable).

 

[Whiteshepherds]

Nope. AKC is ONLY a breed registry in the U.S. GSDCA is the GSD club in the U.S. SV is the breed club in Germany. USCA is a sport club that follows the SV standards and regulations.

And then there is the FCI which is a whole other story.

For Kathrynil -
Lots of differences between these organizations.
The AKC is an all breed registry more similar to the German Kennel Club, Canadian Kennel Club etc. than the SV.
Both the GSDCA and SV are breed clubs but only the SV has a registry. (for GSD's)
The FCI is made up of national kennel clubs, not a registry at all.

 

[Kathrynil]

The AKC registration form has a section for color. I guess someone can write down "other" (??) but the AKC does provide data for the following colors in the GSD breed; Bi-Color, Black, Black/Cream, Black/Red, Black/Silver, Black/Tan, Blue, Gray, Liver, Sable, Tan, White

The AKC disqualifies any white dogs in their competitions. The USCA strictly condemns dogs who are any of these colors and states that clearly in their standard.

"Pale, washed-out colors and blues or livers are serious faults. A white dog must be disqualified." AKC breed standard

http://images.akc.org/pdf/breeds/standards/GermanShepherdDog.pdf

Take a look at the standard for the USCA too, and you'll see the same thing. No Pandas, no livers, no blues, no anything but the norm.

 

[dogma13]

Since white is a disqualifying color under the German Shepherd Dog standard, why would I want to own one?
As with any German Shepherd, responsible ownership is called for. However, once you have chosen the German Shepherd as your breed, unless you are specifically purchasing your German Shepherd Dog for AKC conformation competition, there is no reason not to own a white. As stated herein, the white German Shepherd is fully eligible for AKC and CKC registration and for all AKC and CKC obedience competitions and awards. The color of your dog is a matter of personal preference. Many people who are not influenced by the prejudice against the white coated dog would actually choose a white dog for its sheer beauty and presence.

 

[Kathrynil]

Since white is a disqualifying color under the German Shepherd Dog standard, why would I want to own one?
As with any German Shepherd, responsible ownership is called for. However, once you have chosen the German Shepherd as your breed, unless you are specifically purchasing your German Shepherd Dog for AKC conformation competition, there is no reason not to own a white. As stated herein, the white German Shepherd is fully eligible for AKC and CKC registration and for all AKC and CKC obedience competitions and awards. The color of your dog is a matter of personal preference. Many people who are not influenced by the prejudice against the white coated dog would actually choose a white dog for its sheer beauty and presence.

@dogma13:
i'm not saying there isn't. Sure you can own a white dog. I'm not condemning that. The AKC is not showing them however, so if your dog is in a show home, that's a different ballgame.
White dogs are very beautiful and I really like them, but I wouldn't own them if I was going to show them at all. That's where the standard starts to matter.
Liver dogs are kind of ugly though, unless they are English Setters. Then I think they look pretty. But a liver GSD? Yuck!