I am not sure about the hormones....however. Kaos reacts completely different to Sherman when he is in pain. In fact last time he slipped and fell in the kitchen, after he got up he went over and tried to pick a fight with Sherman. Luckily I shut it down pretty quick. When he has issues with pain, I limit their time together quite a bit, because he is downright grouchy.

ETA....our vet told us she thinks it has more to do with the fact that when he is in pain he is more insecure about his "position" as CHIEF so he acts up.

 

We're studying endocrinology and hormones right now. . . yes it can

 

Emily - can you please explain how it all works?

This is not a case of Jax reacting to pain caused by someone messing with her leg or Sierra bumping her. It was completely unprovoked. It may have been related to Sierra being near a toy but is still out of character for Jax to react so strongly.

 

Are you referring to the endorphin hormone?

 

I don't know! I don't think I ever knew anything other than a hormone increases because of a fight (stress related, fight or flight response) and it takes a few days for it to return to normal.

 

hmmm....that's interesting...our "chief" if Banshee. Any dog that tries to challenge that post has to deal with me! lol But there is a pack issue between Sierra and Jax. Typically, it's Sierra that starts the fight. It's very, very rare for Jax to do it and that is usually within a couple days of Sierra starting a fight in that time period where their hormone levels need to come back to normal.

WHAT is the name of the hormone that increases!? Is it a stress hormone? Is it even a hormone?

 

hmmm....that's interesting...our "chief" if Banshee. Any dog that tries to challenge that post has to deal with me! lol But there is a pack issue between Sierra and Jax. Typically, it's Sierra that starts the fight. It's very, very rare for Jax to do it and that is usually within a couple days of Sierra starting a fight in that time period where their hormone levels need to come back to normal.

WHAT is the name of the hormone that increases!? Is it a stress hormone? Is it even a hormone?

Not sure what the name of it is...
Thing with our house is Sherman has NEVER tried to challenge Kaos at all. When Kaos is in pain he doesn't always act out immediately like he did after his slip, he is just generally much more reactive. You can always tell when his meds start to wear off, he just gets a "look" and Sherman knows the look, because he avoids him like the plague

 

Presuming that dogs release similar hormones as humans - which may be a big stretch - they release a number of them. Pro‐opiomelanocortin (metabolized into ACTH & endorphin), vasopressin, glucagon, growth hormone, prolactin, all designed to increase metabolism and stimulate immune responses.

 

Sure, it will help me study.

First, you need to keep in mind that the fight-or-fight reflex is kind of crude. It doesn't know the difference between being chased by a bear and being chased by your boss to meet a deadline. It only knows you are under attack. So for humans or dogs, negative stressful events are going to be reacted to with more or less the same response.

Much of the stress response is controlled by the nervous system and is short-acting. The hormonal effects of stress are longer lasting because hormones are released into the blood stream and it can take a while for them to be cleared out again. If she has an injury that is causing her pain or to feel like she's vulnerable, she's getting a steady supply of epinephrine, norepinephrine, and glucocorticoids like cortisol which are keeping her in kind of a constant state of "emergency". The thing to remember is that hormones are longer-acting than the nervous system because the hormones are actually carried around in the blood for hours and even days.


Did you want more details?

 

Yes, Jamie, it's entirely possible that I missed something. I think Sierra was 'near' a toy but they aren't toys Jax plays with.

Oddly, Sierra didn't fight back. She headed for cover, which is really, really out of character for her. She is the one that will not stop even in a choke hold.

We want all the details!!! lol Thanks so much Emily!

How long does do the hormones generally stay in the body?

My thought is that Jax is in pain and reacting similar to when they have fought. I wonder if the 'toy' (that she normally doesn't care about) was the trigger. And can Sierra sense her pain or her increased agitation somehow? Or is Sierra's reaction completely unrelated?

I love puzzles!!!!

 

We want all the details!!! lol Thanks so much Emily!

How long does do the hormones generally stay in the body?

Depends on how long she's in pain. If a dog (or human) is under long-term chronic stress, the hormones will just keep circulating in the body. Especially if the pain makes her feel vulnerable about her position in the pack with the other dogs, she's likely to lash out to defend herself.

 

That makes perfect sense, Emily. Thanks so much! I'll just make sure she's closely monitored so we don't have a fight.

 

Candice - I think we don't perceive a threat but they do. So I don't think we can say there is no threat.

 

Candice - I think we don't perceive a threat but they do. So I don't think we can say there is no threat.

Yes I agree with that. I perhaps stated wrong. I think the fact that Sherman is here is a threat to him. Where I stand though, I "logically" know there isn't one by observing their actions and Shermans constant almost sickening deferrence to Kaos all the time. But logic was the key word, Kaos sees it as threatening, that is true.

Absolutely.

Think about it-- when I have a migraine, I know that I am more likely to lash out verbally at my husband. I know he's not causing the pain and I know he'd rather cut off his left arm than hurt me, but if I've got a migraine he knows the best thing is to leave me alone in a dark room. Same thing with him. If he's sick or hurting, he's more likely to say hurtful things. He knows I didn't-- and wouldn't-- hurt him, but he's still incredibly defensive.

Pain makes bullies of us all.

How true that is. I have struggled with 2 herniated discs over the years, I am surprised my husband still loves me after some of the attitude I've thrown his way Question then.....if a person is in constant pain that is controlled with meds, are those chemical reactions still present? It would make sense they are, since the pain is not necassarily gone only masked.

 

Jax08....just forgot to add. Sorry about hi-jacking your thread:blush: I was just so excited to see a good thread that didn't reference pit-bulls or food aggression, it peaked my interest! Emily thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, I appreciate it.

 

No problem! Glad I asked a question that interests other!

 

Bump. . .

I talked to my Anatomy & Physiology prof about this. . . she's also an MD. She said that if an injury is present, there will still be a pretty significant stress hormone response, even if the pain is blocked with medicine. Could explain a lot.

 

"Cortisol" is what I've heard of being studied to examine stress levels in dogs.

An injury can, in addition to making a dog "grumpy", make a dog feel insecure, and an insecure dog is more likely to react in (perceived) defense, too.

 

"Cortisol" is what I've heard of being studied to examine stress levels in dogs.

Cortisol is the major glucocorticosteroid but there are other minor ones, as well as epinephrine and norepinephrine. Working together these stress hormones can make feelings of stress very real, even if the animal/person isn't in physical pain.