Tails I can see, but what function does docking the ears have?
Aren't dog clubs in Europe banning the practice now?
Aren't dog clubs in Europe banning the practice now?
Smith3
I believe they do it to them to make their ears stand, and i think it's called cropping. They have to have it done too if they are shown, same with great danes.
OK, but why did cropped ears become the standard. I have a neighbor with two Cane Corso's. One with the ears cropped and one without. Frankly, I think they (the Cane's) look better with natural ears.
they look better, more alert. I had a gorgeous Doberman yrs ago, he had a show crop *harder to get to stand* he was stunning.
We had 2 up the street who both have their ears cropped. Just beautiful dogs
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Very loving, too.
We had 2 up the street who both have their ears cropped. Just beautiful dogs
The doberman was bred to be a protection dog, the ears were originally cropped so an attacker would not be able to grab and hang onto them.
A doberman does not need to have cropped ears to show in AKC.
ETA: Ear cropping and tail docking is banned in many countries in Europe as it has been deemed to be for cosmetic purposes only and unnecessary.
A doberman does not need to have cropped ears to show in AKC.
ETA: Ear cropping and tail docking is banned in many countries in Europe as it has been deemed to be for cosmetic purposes only and unnecessary.
The Doberman was created by a tax collector to use as a guard dog (since people did not like tax collectors so much). I believe the docked tails and cropped ears were so that anyone trying to rob or harm the tax collector (Louis Dobermann sp?) could not grab onto the dog as easily.
Since it was part of the original breed standard, it stuck in some places.
My Doberman had a docked tail but not cropped ears. Not because I dont like them, I do LOVE the look of properly cropped ears, but because she was 10 weeks old when I got her and it has to be done when they are young - I think 10-12 weeks is the OLDEST they recommend it be done at, and since I never had a dog with cropped ears, I was too afraid I would mess them up. The other reason is becasue we had just moved into a house with a lot of kids inthe neighborhood and I did not want a "mean" looking dog and an uncropped Dobie looks like an eternal puppy. I always referred to her as my giant "weiner dog". lol
Since it was part of the original breed standard, it stuck in some places.
My Doberman had a docked tail but not cropped ears. Not because I dont like them, I do LOVE the look of properly cropped ears, but because she was 10 weeks old when I got her and it has to be done when they are young - I think 10-12 weeks is the OLDEST they recommend it be done at, and since I never had a dog with cropped ears, I was too afraid I would mess them up. The other reason is becasue we had just moved into a house with a lot of kids inthe neighborhood and I did not want a "mean" looking dog and an uncropped Dobie looks like an eternal puppy. I always referred to her as my giant "weiner dog". lol
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
Preface: i think...
it is called cropping. dobermans were bred as working dogs primarily used for guarding and patrol. by cropping the ears, not only do the dogs look more alert, intimidating, "ferocious" etc, but when chasing down a suspect / intruder - it would be no good for long floppy ears to get in the way of the dogs vision. what i dont understand is that its illegal in europe (as is docking the tails) but the breed was originated in europe, so one would think (well, not that america doesnt have an insane record for altering just about every breed) that if erect ears and docked tails served a real purpose - that would have come to pass when the breed was created. i do know that the standard doesnt cal for excessively long ears, but the conformation circle breeders like this because it leave more ear to work with to achieve the desired "show crop" as sashmom mentioned.
ETA: yes, i forgot to mention the possibility of the ears being grabbed by attackers.
i'll admit, i do prefer the look of dobies with cropped ears (aethetically they are my favorite breed). my mother raised a litter of 5 (the mother shunned them) and ended up keeping them all. 3 black females left uncropped... 2 red males (Big Sam & Little Sam
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) both cropped.
of the other cropped breeds (boxers, danes, schnauzers, etc) - i do like them uncropped.
ETA2: so cropped ears and docked tails were part of the original standard? when/how was it outlawed?
ETA3: 10 weeks is not too old to crop a dobies ears, depends on the vet and their "guarantee". it may however limit your options of the style (length) of crop. my friends female was cropped at 4 months and stood perfectly. they did have to stay taped longer than usual because of the interference of the teething stage.
i also have to mention how sickened i was once by a gorgeous doberman that was in the animal shelter being held as "evidence" he was 10mo old and his ears were STILL TAPED. dried dirt, blood and swelling. animal control "claimed" that since it was private property, they could not remove the tape or administer any medical treatment to the dog. the dog was eventually surrendered and taken by dobie rescue after much protesting from the public and the owners cooperation.
Preface: i think...
it is called cropping. dobermans were bred as working dogs primarily used for guarding and patrol. by cropping the ears, not only do the dogs look more alert, intimidating, "ferocious" etc, but when chasing down a suspect / intruder - it would be no good for long floppy ears to get in the way of the dogs vision. what i dont understand is that its illegal in europe (as is docking the tails) but the breed was originated in europe, so one would think (well, not that america doesnt have an insane record for altering just about every breed) that if erect ears and docked tails served a real purpose - that would have come to pass when the breed was created. i do know that the standard doesnt cal for excessively long ears, but the conformation circle breeders like this because it leave more ear to work with to achieve the desired "show crop" as sashmom mentioned.
ETA: yes, i forgot to mention the possibility of the ears being grabbed by attackers.
i'll admit, i do prefer the look of dobies with cropped ears (aethetically they are my favorite breed). my mother raised a litter of 5 (the mother shunned them) and ended up keeping them all. 3 black females left uncropped... 2 red males (Big Sam & Little Sam
of the other cropped breeds (boxers, danes, schnauzers, etc) - i do like them uncropped.
ETA2: so cropped ears and docked tails were part of the original standard? when/how was it outlawed?
ETA3: 10 weeks is not too old to crop a dobies ears, depends on the vet and their "guarantee". it may however limit your options of the style (length) of crop. my friends female was cropped at 4 months and stood perfectly. they did have to stay taped longer than usual because of the interference of the teething stage.
i also have to mention how sickened i was once by a gorgeous doberman that was in the animal shelter being held as "evidence" he was 10mo old and his ears were STILL TAPED. dried dirt, blood and swelling. animal control "claimed" that since it was private property, they could not remove the tape or administer any medical treatment to the dog. the dog was eventually surrendered and taken by dobie rescue after much protesting from the public and the owners cooperation.
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
my first dog (Roxy-thus my screen name) was a doberman without cropped ears, and i wouldnt have wanted it any other way. i may get another dobe again and there will definitely be no ear cropping.
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my first dog (Roxy-thus my screen name) was a doberman without cropped ears, and i wouldnt have wanted it any other way. i may get another dobe again and there will definitely be no ear cropping.
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
It is purely for cosmetic reasons in most cases. I never understood the whole "oh they needed to be cropped/docked for their job" when there are plenty of other breeds that had the same original job, have similar ears and/or tail types and were NEVER docked or cropped!
It is purely for cosmetic reasons in most cases. I never understood the whole "oh they needed to be cropped/docked for their job" when there are plenty of other breeds that had the same original job, have similar ears and/or tail types and were NEVER docked or cropped!
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
I was under the impression that the ears had to be cropped for showing, my bad, I guess it's personal preference.
I was under the impression that the ears had to be cropped for showing, my bad, I guess it's personal preference.
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
i always figured the change would of occurred back when the breeds originated - but i suppose its easier to chop a dogs ears and tails off rather than spend the years of selective breeding that it would take to get a dog with erect ears.
just a guess, but perhaps the breeds you're referring to are older breeds and the more recent preference of cropping & docking were seen as an improvement.
i always figured the change would of occurred back when the breeds originated - but i suppose its easier to chop a dogs ears and tails off rather than spend the years of selective breeding that it would take to get a dog with erect ears.
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
It recently became illegal in South Africa to dock tails, ear cropping has been illegal for a long time. I have to agree, I don't see the necessity of cropping ears but docking tails is an entirely different story. Boerboel and Rottweilers are two breeds I can think of that definitely need docked tails. They're sturdy dogs with thick, big tails that hurt not only their owners by wagging but also themselves. It is a part of the body that bleeds a lot and you find it difficult to stop the bleeding if the tip of the tail is injured. And since it's their way of showing emotion the tail doesn't have enough time to heal as it wags every minute (if you have a happy dog). So I think the notion that it's cruel and for cosmetic purposes when it comes to tail docking is nonsense! Ears, as I said, different story, or maybe not...maybe they also have good reasons we just don't know about.
It recently became illegal in South Africa to dock tails, ear cropping has been illegal for a long time. I have to agree, I don't see the necessity of cropping ears but docking tails is an entirely different story. Boerboel and Rottweilers are two breeds I can think of that definitely need docked tails. They're sturdy dogs with thick, big tails that hurt not only their owners by wagging but also themselves. It is a part of the body that bleeds a lot and you find it difficult to stop the bleeding if the tip of the tail is injured. And since it's their way of showing emotion the tail doesn't have enough time to heal as it wags every minute (if you have a happy dog). So I think the notion that it's cruel and for cosmetic purposes when it comes to tail docking is nonsense! Ears, as I said, different story, or maybe not...maybe they also have good reasons we just don't know about.
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
a lot of breeds had the tail docks because they were cart pullers. Such as the rottie. I have to admit, I have an english mastiff that I wish sometimes didn't have a tail!!!! It can be a lethal weapon. I was sitting in a chair, she walked by wagged her tail and gave me a corneal abrasion! hahahahah
a lot of breeds had the tail docks because they were cart pullers. Such as the rottie. I have to admit, I have an english mastiff that I wish sometimes didn't have a tail!!!! It can be a lethal weapon. I was sitting in a chair, she walked by wagged her tail and gave me a corneal abrasion! hahahahah
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
Personally, I LOVE the look of a cropped Dobe, whereas I think those with natural ears look a bit silly and more like a hound than a working breed.
I've also been told by several Dobe people regarding ears that not only is it tradition from a looks/intimidation/less to grab onto standpoint but also that Dobe's with natural ears are much more prone to ear infections than Dobes's with cropped ears. Their theory being that cropped ears stay more dry. Not sure if that is true or just justification for cropping.
As for tails, I've also been told by several Dobe people that docked tails are better for the dog. Their tails are so long, thin and whip like, and Dobe's are quite the tail waggers, that broken tails are not uncommon. Whereas with docked tails, obviously that's a non-issue.
Personally, I LOVE the look of a cropped Dobe, whereas I think those with natural ears look a bit silly and more like a hound than a working breed.
I've also been told by several Dobe people regarding ears that not only is it tradition from a looks/intimidation/less to grab onto standpoint but also that Dobe's with natural ears are much more prone to ear infections than Dobes's with cropped ears. Their theory being that cropped ears stay more dry. Not sure if that is true or just justification for cropping.
As for tails, I've also been told by several Dobe people that docked tails are better for the dog. Their tails are so long, thin and whip like, and Dobe's are quite the tail waggers, that broken tails are not uncommon. Whereas with docked tails, obviously that's a non-issue.
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
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then we need to telepathically connect with Mr Max von Stephanitz and ask what he was thinking because it was NOT a fun month when Gia sprained her tail. I've never heard a dog scream the way she did when that happened
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
See, this is where I don't understand it. If Boerboels and Rotties should be docked because they are prone to tail injuries (or causing injuries with their tails) then why aren't other breeds with similar tail types docked too? Shouldn't we dock all mastiff breeds, and Great Danes? They all have thick and strong tails and can be prone to injury due to this. So in this case shouldn't all mastiff breeds be docked at birth to prevent injuries too? Labradors as well, tail injuries are also very common to them. Additionally Labs are prone to a condition called "cold-water tail" or "dead tail" which can be very painful.
Again if this was the case why don't we crop more breeds ears? Labradors and Goldens are VERY prone to ear infections, and these can lead to serious issues like hematomas of the ears, loss of hearing, skin infections, etc... They are also prone to hotspots around the ears partially due to wetness accumulating underneath the ear flap. I don't know if you've ever seen a dog with a severe hot spot around the ear but it is pretty horrible. (If you're curious, here is a photo.) If ear cropping is so important for Dobermans to prevent ear infections than why aren't we cropping Labs and Goldens too? Oh and what about Cocker Spaniels? They have notoriously bad ears and many even go deaf due to chronic ear problems.
Again here, there are a number of breeds with long whip-like thin tails which are prone to breaking or injury. Why are they not docking those breeds as well? For example sighthounds have these sort of tails. I know Greyhound has a high instance of tail injuries. Other breeds have this type of tail as well and are not docked including the Irish Water Spaniel, Catahoula, Setters, English Pointers, Foxhounds, etc...
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
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Maybe they didn't think of it? Maybe, unlike with the Dobe, there were utilitarian reasons NOT to, whereas with the Dobe it also brought other advantages from a utilitarian standpoint.
Maybe it just wasn't an issue when the breed was developed. For example, sighthound tails... these breeds are 1000s of years old and were developed in desert/grassland areas. Not a whole lot to break a tail on. Whereas the Dobe, much more modern, developed in an urban environment... big difference there.
There are many breeds that traditionally have tails docked for utilitarian reasons (a whole slew of hunting breeds come to mind).
Besides, today it's not a question of "why aren't we docking/cropping those breeds", it's more a question of "will the breeds who traditionally have been docked/cropped for whatever reason still be able to be docked/cropped". Answer overwhelmingly seems to be no.
Who knows, might be happier, healthier Goldens and Labs and sighthouds out there if they did.
Maybe they didn't think of it? Maybe, unlike with the Dobe, there were utilitarian reasons NOT to, whereas with the Dobe it also brought other advantages from a utilitarian standpoint.
Maybe it just wasn't an issue when the breed was developed. For example, sighthound tails... these breeds are 1000s of years old and were developed in desert/grassland areas. Not a whole lot to break a tail on. Whereas the Dobe, much more modern, developed in an urban environment... big difference there.
There are many breeds that traditionally have tails docked for utilitarian reasons (a whole slew of hunting breeds come to mind).
Besides, today it's not a question of "why aren't we docking/cropping those breeds", it's more a question of "will the breeds who traditionally have been docked/cropped for whatever reason still be able to be docked/cropped". Answer overwhelmingly seems to be no.
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
Rotties are docked becuase they were bred to pull a cart. Tail got in the way and the dog got injured, not them injuring someone with the tail. Personally I like an undocked rott.
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
In that case why don't Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs have docked tails? I thought they were originally bred as draft dogs as well.
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
Don't know - possibly becuase they're much larger (or atleast the ones I've seen were) and the tail would have cleared the top of the wagon? Or maybe they didn't care about fur in the food?
Don't know - possibly becuase they're much larger (or atleast the ones I've seen were) and the tail would have cleared the top of the wagon? Or maybe they didn't care about fur in the food?
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
I'm with Chris, a Dobe just looks so much more elegant and refined when they have beautiful sculpted ears, ( IMHO) I had a Doberman years ago and had her ears cropped by a Vet who bred and showed Dobies, her ears were beautiful, she NEVER had any issues with the aftercare, they were in a little rack, she never missed a beat and if I ever had another Dobie, it too would be cropped, they look like big mutts to me if uncropped.
I'm with Chris, a Dobe just looks so much more elegant and refined when they have beautiful sculpted ears, ( IMHO) I had a Doberman years ago and had her ears cropped by a Vet who bred and showed Dobies, her ears were beautiful, she NEVER had any issues with the aftercare, they were in a little rack, she never missed a beat and if I ever had another Dobie, it too would be cropped, they look like big mutts to me if uncropped.
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
I like how the Dobies look with natural ears as well as cropped. If I had a Doberman puppy I would not get the ears cropped. However if I was getting one I would buy then whether the ears were cropped or natural, doesn't matter to me...of course if I was getting a Dobie it would most likely be from breed rescue and probably an albino. I don't support the breeding of albino Dobermans, they are prone to many health issues, but I would love to rescue one.
The only breed I think looks better with cropped ears is the Beauceron. I still wouldn't have the ears cropped if I was buying a puppy-- but I might buy one who was already cropped.
I like how the Dobies look with natural ears as well as cropped. If I had a Doberman puppy I would not get the ears cropped. However if I was getting one I would buy then whether the ears were cropped or natural, doesn't matter to me...of course if I was getting a Dobie it would most likely be from breed rescue and probably an albino. I don't support the breeding of albino Dobermans, they are prone to many health issues, but I would love to rescue one.
The only breed I think looks better with cropped ears is the Beauceron. I still wouldn't have the ears cropped if I was buying a puppy-- but I might buy one who was already cropped.
Swissies and Rotties are close to the same height range. Males can be up to 1.5" taller than the max height for Rotties but the range is similar.
Re: What is the point of docking a Doberman's ears
geez, the more i type, i seemingly feel more shallow and superficial, so i guess the good thing is that i'm not planning to get any of these breeds *whew*
i'm with you... perhaps even worse. a dobie i'd crop... a boxer i *might*... a great dane i might as well, but lean more towards not (i think the fawns look great cropped, but not so much a harlequin)... with schnauzers i'd take a mini cropped, but a giant uncropped... i basically like drop ears when they are more lab in nature - fly away or raised ears can look silly on some breeds. anything with a short crop, i'll pass (they remind me of little devil horns) but the tall crops i like.
geez, the more i type, i seemingly feel more shallow and superficial, so i guess the good thing is that i'm not planning to get any of these breeds *whew*
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