[volumedown]

I think David hit the nail on the head with this statement:
"For me, it's about establishing engagement and relationship, and then backing that up with consistent rules."

This is critical in building trust. That trust has to go both ways so that the dog trusts you to keep them safe, to be consistent and predictable so that they can feel secure in all situations. Conversely the human has to learn to read the dog's body language and communication signals to be know how to diffuse or divert situations that may arise. It pains me to think that this 6 month old really hasn't been given a chance to grow into a relationship. Relationship building can take time and a lot of work with these dogs.

Yeah, it pains me as well because there is a great relationship with all of us, minus the recent food aggression.

 

[volumedown]

It's a puppy...that's how.

Not to mention, owner starts seeing some barking and reactive behavior at 4 months but is unwilling to consult a trainer. Now at 6 months the behavior is worse (HUGE SURPRISE right?!). Now, this puppy "has" to be put down because it is defective.somehow.

If this weren't a super common story it might be believable, but it is super common.

Obviously without seeing this puppy first hand it's impossible to say, but odds are greatly in favor of there being nothing at all wrong with the puppy that some training wouldn't fix. Hopefully the OP will realize that and get a good trainer on board! It's just a puppy...

Barking wasn't my major issue, and I hate when people miss my major points. I'm sorry, but I've said it over and over again in this thread that she shows pretty moderate/severe aggression towards small kids. This is "just a puppy" who's 45 pounds and unbelievably strong and getting bigger.

 

[volumedown]

I can sum up my training with this particular dog, but that doesn't mean that I would handle your dog in the same manner.

I put a drag line on him in the house and kept him from practicing bad behaviors. I taught him how to play tug and fetch with rules. I lured obedience with food and then transitioned to a toy. I worked impulse control with down stays and place commands. I ran his butt off at the hill twice a day, working on obedience and impulse control while having a blast. I instilled house rules, with rewards and corrections as needed.

I mean no disrespect by this but your posts show your lack of understanding of how to handle a dog in drive. My dog will work ultra hard for food when that's the most interesting thing available at the time. You throw in something more interesting and food is worthless as a reward. This is really common in the breed. Toys, or more importantly the games with the toys, are typically higher value than food.

For me, it's about establishing engagement and relationship, and then backing that up with consistent rules. I can't condense 45 years of dog training experience into a forum post, but I can say that I still learn about training dogs and I've trained hundreds.

I'm not saying you are wrong about your dog as I've seen genetically aggressive dogs that are beyond my abilities. I'm just saying that I hope you give this dog a shot with a real trainer.

Well hey, not everyone has access to 45 years of training or the money it takes to correct behavior like this. That's obviously not a jab at you, seeing youve put in the years. Her reactiveness towards kids is leaving me in a bind, I have a 3 year old who I can't trust around a 'family' dog, and I am around other kids constantly. We are a very active family and I always bring her with us and all of that was going fantastic until she decided it wasn't.

 

[DogsRPeople2]

Maybe Caesar Milan’s method?

Cesar Millan – Official Site | Dog Training & Pack Leader Gear

Explore dog training tips, expert advice, and official programs from Cesar Millan. Shop exclusive merch and learn how to lead your pack with calm confidence.

www.cesarsway.com

 

[volumedown]

Just throwing this out there.

Thanks, for reference, she is the last one or "most severe"

 

[Pawsed]

Can you at least spend some money to have the pup.properly evaluated by a good trainer who is versed in GSDs?

Who knows, if they think the dog could be saved, they might even know of someone who would take her.

 

[volumedown]

Maybe Caesar Milan’s method?

Cesar Millan – Official Site | Dog Training & Pack Leader Gear

Explore dog training tips, expert advice, and official programs from Cesar Millan. Shop exclusive merch and learn how to lead your pack with calm confidence.

www.cesarsway.com

Can you at least spend some money to have the pup.properly evaluated by a good trainer who is versed in GSDs?

Who knows, if they think the dog could be saved, they might even know of someone who would take her.

Sure. Several german shepherd rescues didn't want anything to do with her. Her aggressiveness towards kids is alarming and not normal.

 

[Rabidwolfie]

Sure. Several german shepherd rescues didn't want anything to do with her. Her aggressiveness towards kids is alarming and not normal.

Rescues usually only want dogs that can be rehomed, in my experience. Resources tend to be tight and they have a "can't save em all" attitude. They don't want a dog that could get them sued or can't be rehomed within a short span of time. Don't take their reluctance as more than it is.

Can't speak about her aggression or trainability, but you're citing the opinions of all the WRONG people here. Vets, rescues and trick trainers are about as useful in your situation as a mechanic fixing your phone.

 

[volumedown]

Rescues usually only want dogs that can be rehomed, in my experience. Resources tend to be tight and they have a "can't save em all" attitude. They don't want a dog that could get them sued or can't be rehomed within a short span of time. Don't take their reluctance as more than it is.

Can't speak about her aggression or trainability, but you're citing the opinions of all the WRONG people here. Vets, rescues and trick trainers are about as useful in your situation as a mechanic fixing your phone.

Sure, I've said that several times now that they aren't behaviorist. But have a general idea on what's going on. They aren't totally clueless on these topics. Her reactiveness towards kids isn't a "scared" dog it's a bit more of a severe problem. Talking on threads doesn't do it justice. There's zero point in living in fear of my dog getting out and attacking a child. Every single one of my neighbors all have kids under 10. That alone means she has to go.

 

[Fodder]

That alone means she has to go.

i don’t think anyone is disagreeing with this….. they’re just trying to keep a young dog alive if possible.

 

[volumedown]

i don’t think anyone is disagreeing with this….. they’re just trying to keep a young dog alive if possible.

I am too, I love that thing to death. Minus the issues I have, she's a great dog. She hasn't shown anything towards us besides the food aggression, which now scares me to have my daughter around her eating. But I'll just put her in the crate to eat to avoid anything.

 

[MeishasMom]

Have you had any blood work done or brain scans? My girl just got done with 30days of Doxy for Lyme disease. Before she was diagnosed she would be a bit moody and snappy. Now she's a happy loving pup, no more snapping, always looking for rubs and scratches. Sometimes animals will act out and be aggressive if they don't feel well. I know she's only 6 months, but that doesn't mean there isn't something health wise that could be causing her actions.

Nothing ever happened with her and a child when she was younger that you are aware of right?

 

[volumedown]

Have you had any blood work done or brain scans? My girl just got done with 30days of Doxy for Lyme disease. Before she was diagnosed she would be a bit moody and snappy. Now she's a happy loving pup, no more snapping, always looking for rubs and scratches. Sometimes animals will act out and be aggressive if they don't feel well. I know she's only 6 months, but that doesn't mean there isn't something health wise that could be causing her actions.

Nothing ever happened with her and a child when she was younger that you are aware of right?

No I haven't but they have suggested it. Nothing has happened to her at all, unless it was before 8 weeks of age and she randomly remembered something. She was fine up until one day. I know people say "you had to notice something" no. This was a sudden change as IF something did happen, but it didn't. I would allow her to be off leash. She would greet people with no issues, never seemed scared or ever had to retreat from anything. She's been everywhere with us. The only red flag I noticed was fearfulness on the first meet, any puppy I've ever come in contact with is generally happy to see people. She was not at first BUT she was after a couple weeks.

 

[volumedown]

Have you had any blood work done or brain scans? My girl just got done with 30days of Doxy for Lyme disease. Before she was diagnosed she would be a bit moody and snappy. Now she's a happy loving pup, no more snapping, always looking for rubs and scratches. Sometimes animals will act out and be aggressive if they don't feel well. I know she's only 6 months, but that doesn't mean there isn't something health wise that could be causing her actions.

Nothing ever happened with her and a child when she was younger that you are aware of right?

Other than the issues I've listed, she's a very active pup. Very playful, eats very well, water intake is great.

 

[Rabidwolfie]

Some muzzle training could be in order until she's either successfully rehomed or....
At least she would be safer until she leaves your company one way or another.

 

[LuvShepherds]

I’m going to throw something out there which is not advice so much as something else to think about. Please consider this and don’t take it as a criticism because it’s not. It might be an answer. I have a great deal of experience working with families and children. I’ve learned that sometimes the problem in front of us is the symptom rather than the origin of the problem. A dog doesn’t suddenly go from being safe around people to attacking children without a reason. Your dog is skittish and fearful. We know that and we agree. Children are noisy. Families can be very noisy. Is it possible your daughter or another child or adult was very loud at some point and scared the dog so badly, she reacted? A big tantrum, a loud argument? Even children playing can be loud and frightening to a puppy who hasn’t had a lot of exposure and develops a fear reaction. We talk about thunder, gunshots, or other natural noises here but we don’t mention people noises. My WL has very sensitive hearing and I’ve seen him alert to and investigate noises that I never noticed before. Is it possible a child did something, anything, that frightened her? Even something perfectly normal to us can be a trigger to a skittish dog. Dogs remember and the next time something triggers the same fear, they will react.

Rescues didn’t turn you down because they saw her and determined she was aggressive. She was turned down because you told them she was aggressive. It concerns me that no professional has evaluated this dog. If you need to give her up, which it sounds like you do, you can save her life by finding a safe placement for her. You may love her but she’s the wrong dog for your family right now. I would find a rescue group you haven’t talked to yet, explain that she is too much dog for you, is skittish and needs an experienced handler to evaluate her. I can guarantee a experienced trainer who knows the breed and their quirks and faults, will see different things than you do. If they decide she’s hopeless, they will recommend euth, but in my experience rescues will go the extra distance to save a dog if she is salvageable. They will pay for training and will place a dog in a home without children if necessary.

Our first GSD was solid as a rock with an amazing temperament, but the breeder refused to sell to us until my youngest child was in first grade. We waited a year and even then, she switched puppies on us and ended up selling us a slightly older puppy that had some training and exposure to everything. That dog was around children, off leash, all the time without any concerns on our part at all. Your child is young. If you get another dog now look for a breed that is more forgiving and family friendly. Wait to get a GSD at a time when your children are older and you can afford good training from the beginning.

 

[volumedown]

I’m going to throw something out there which is not advice so much as something else to think about. Please consider this and don’t take it as a criticism because it’s not. It might be an answer. I have a great deal of experience working with families and children. I’ve learned that sometimes the problem in front of us is the symptom rather than the origin of the problem. A dog doesn’t suddenly go from getting along with people to attacking children without a reason. Your dog is skittish and fearful. We know that and we agree. Children are noisy. Families can be very noisy. Is it possible your daughter or another child or adult was very loud at some point and scared the dog so badly, she reacted? A big tantrum, a loud argument? Even children playing can be loud and frightening to a puppy who hasn’t had a lot of exposure and develops a fear reaction. We talk about thunder, gunshots, or other natural noises here but we don’t mention people noises. My WL has very sensitive hearing and I’ve seen him alert to and investigate noises that I never noticed before. Is it possible a child did something, anything, that frightened her? Even something perfectly normal to us can be a trigger to a skittish dog. Dogs remember and the next time something triggers the same fear, they will react.

Rescues didn’t turn you down because they saw her and determined she was aggressive. She was turned down because you told them she was aggressive. It concerns me that no professional has evaluated this dog. If you need to give her up, which it sounds like you do, you can save her life by finding a safe placement for her. You may love her but she’s the wrong dog for your family right now. I would find a rescue group you haven’t talked to yet, explain that she is too much dog for you, is skittish and needs an experienced handler to evaluate her. I can guarantee a experienced trainer who knows the breed and their quirks and faults, will see different things than you do. If they decide she’s hopeless, they will recommend euth, but in my experience rescues will go the extra distance to save a dog if she is salvageable. They will pay for training and will place a dog in a home without children if necessary.

Our first GSD was solid as a rock with an amazing temperament, but the breeder refused to sell to us until my youngest child was in first grade. We waited a year and even then, she switched puppies on us and ended up selling us a slightly older puppy that had some training and exposure to everything. That dog was around children, off leash, all the time without any concerns on our part at all. Your child is young. If you get another dog now look for a breed that is more forgiving and family friendly. Wait to get a GSD at a time when your children are older and you can afford good training from the beginning.

Sorry, but the rescues didn't turn me down because of me, they did it for them. Nobody wants a dog who can severely injure a child. Ava was awesome with anyone up until one day, a sharp sudden change in behavior as IF something happened, but it didn't. That's the issue here, there's something 'wrong' in her brain the same way a person can have severe public anxiety, but most do not. I am not talking about a dog who's never liked people or I got from a shelter that had "doesn't like kids" written on their card. I am talking about a sharp change in behavior and a rapid development of dislike in kids. Have you seen your dog chase after a rabbit, small animal? That's how she acts with kids, who aren't even paying her any attention or looking at her. Almost as if her prey drive switched over to humans. ANYTHING I've read on that indicates that's a pretty severe problem.

 

[LuvShepherds]

Did any rescue group actually put hands on her and evaluate her? They met her and determined she was aggressive?

 

[volumedown]

Some muzzle training could be in order until she's either successfully rehomed or....
At least she would be safer until she leaves your company one way or another.

Did any rescue group actually put hands on her and evaluate her? They met her and determined she was aggressive?

They wanted nothing to do with her in general, and several never responded to me after calling/emails. The ones who did, maybe 4 or so (3 being legitimate GSD rescues) said sorry we won't. I reached out to a guy who trains police dogs who "specialize" on redirecting aggression rather than training it out, and he said he'd meet me in a couple days but then never returned any calls or text.

 

[AE316]

In regards to food aggression at that age have you tried doing a bit of hand feeding to form a bond? Do a bit of scatter feeding. Are you able to feed her by saying "sit" & "stay" then releasing her? I started that with mine at a young age and keep doing it. Plus while she's eating I have also gone near her bowl adding a special treat the odd time. The few times she did move from stay or even does now I correct her by saying "uh oh" and quickly removing the bowl back up. But if it's a full blown attack then maybe trying using a leash to correct. Not sure if showing her who the leader is would help in this situation or make it worse. At times I'll say in a loud voice "Hey" the rare times I did up my tone. I personally don't put up with bs, but that's me. No different than how I raise my kids. Cross the line and my tone changes and dad's no longer the nice guy. I don't get physical or anything but let them know this is my house, my rules either oblige or timeout. Gotta be stern a bit. If it's gonna make the situation worse then of course don't.

I've also had my kids at times hand feed. And as mentioned arguments or yelling at kids to discipline them can play a role no different than 2 partners arguing around the animal eventually lashes out on one of them. I get stern with my kids if they take things too far, but nothing over the top. I'll yell go to your room to my youngest, which I've toned down with the dog around. But being all nicey nicey around raising kids at times doesn't work. My youngest is going to be 5 this summer and my oldest being almost 9 is more calm and collective rather than being whining & constantly wanting things his way or challenging me. I have at times crated my dogs around the kids when they wanna get a bit wild and the dog doesn't go crazy in the crate while the kids do their thing.

I know others here who raised kids said their dogs would bark in the crate when the kids went wild during the puppy stage and just let the puppy do its thing until it calmed down on its own probably.