Have you considered your options?

 

I do not know at this point. All rescues have turned me down so far due to liability, I can't blame them.

 

Since your dog doesn’t have a bite history yet, talk to people who train German shepherds and see if anyone in their clubs might be able to work with her and want to take her from you. Although it sounds genetic and dangerous, an experienced handler might be able to stop the behaviors and manage the dog. Euthanasia is a last resort, but if she can’t be handled by anyone, it may be your only option.

When you get your next dog, please ask here for breeder references and help.

 

I have been told so far that maybe my only option. I live near people who have tons of land maybe one of them can take her and she can roam free. I now know the references needed, its just an unfortunate lesson

 

It happens. I had a rescued dog that bit people. In the first foster home, there were so many dogs he didn't get a chance to attack people, so they didn’t know. If I had it to do over again I never would have taken that dog. But we learn from our mistakes. It made me a better handler.

 

Mine's doing the same thing compared to when she was 3 months old. She's a puppy developing. She probably deemed that other girl as a threat around your child. My WL lunges & barks mostly wanting to meet people that way. And she has shown signs of fear aggression a bit. I think that can change with age & training. Plus a bit probably has to do with her natural instinct to protect her pack. I know someone who has a WL GSD and runs a home daycare. The dog will bark like crazy, but is fine afterwards once you're at the door. She didn't lunge due to her age. Here at work in the office she has yet to bark especially the odd time a few people come who aren't regulars otherwise it's just the few employees. I know if I take her to meet my folks who I see 2-4 times a year she'd bark. Just need to correct her, train her & show how to properly meet.

I wouldn't expect every GSD to be people friendly especially when they are going through adolescence. That's just my take on it.

 

Mine's doing the same thing compared to when she was 3 months old. She's a puppy developing. She probably deemed that other girl as a threat around your child. My WL lunges & barks mostly wanting to meet people that way. Plus a bit probably has to do with her natural instinct to protect her pack. I know someone who has a WL GSD and runs a home daycare. The dog will bark like crazy, but is fine afterwards once you're at the door. She didn't lunge due to her age. Here at work in the office she has yet to bark especially the odd time a few people come who aren't regulars otherwise it's just the few employees. I know if I take her to meet my folks who I see 2-4 times a year she'd bark. Just need to correct her, train her & show how to properly meet.

I wouldn't expect every GSD to be people friendly especially when they are going through adolescence. That's just my take on it.

That's where yours and mine differ, yours calms down. Mine does not. I have been told she is not defending us, but more herself. I had the same thought with my neighbor, she just wants to meet the guy so I let her get close and her hairs rose up and she lunged with intent to bite with pretty severe barking with no possible redirection

 

Prior to yesterday I had to at times grab mine by the scuff during walks while I told her to sit. Prong collar made a huge difference and works better for corrections. Otherwise I just walk the opposite direction. I'm gonna work on her barking, but might need to get a muzzle for training. See how it goes. I'm sure if someone came up to us randomly she'd go wild at this stage. Plus I never want any random strangers coming close to me with her unless we do a proper introduction with the dog.

A few times with my tenants she started lunging to meet them before I got the prong. And barked. So I gave in and took her to them and said off when she jumped. I didn't notice her trying to bite, but will observe. But she will be corrected for lunging at them going forward.

 

Prior to yesterday I had to at times grab mine by the scuff during walks while I told her to sit. Prong collar made a huge difference and works better for corrections. Otherwise I just walk the opposite direction. I'm gonna work on her barking, but might need to get a muzzle for training. See how it goes. I'm sure if someone came up to us randomly she'd go wild at this stage. Plus I never want any random strangers coming close to me with her unless we do a proper introduction with the dog.

I honestly do mind the barking because if they are just walking, she can be redirected. If anybody comes close that's obviously a bad day. If it was just me and my wife I really would not mind a lot of things as she does. Truth is I don't want anybody near me anyway and she would make that happen. Unfortunately, we are very very active with our child and other kids (friends) and Ava wants zero part with other kids and she would definitely bite if she got loose. It makes us not able to freely enjoy ourselves, and then if I leave ava at home she gets pent up energy and acts worse. Its a lose lose situation

 

I’m always curious when I see posts like this. What trainers did you talk to? What is their background? What type of dogs do they have as their personal dogs?

 

I took her to two vets, one was mobile for shots, the other was in office plus pets mart for a consultation. All of them did not know I took it anywhere else and they all said these same exact things. It's clearly a genetic issue. A trainer that was local with pretty good reviews with 20 years experience said the same thing and I would be wasting my money. I mean maybe somebody else could have told me something different but the trend was going all in the same direction.

 

ohhhh....nevermind. You are the "I won't get a trainer" guy. Very sad situation.

 

Most trainers are a waste of money who won't tell you their tactics because it can be used at home for free guy, off with that. I'm not talking about show room trainers or experienced behaviorist either, so no talking bad on them.

 

When I was a kid my parents got this Mini Schnauzer from a puppy mill. This is like 35 years ago. They had no idea what they were doing. Dog was a genetic nightmare. Aggression to anyone outside the family he was viscous. Horrible allergies. Could not take him anywhere. He didn't do anything but scratch. They kept the dog alive despite how miserable he was. Sometimes it is a mercy to let the dog be put down. It's hard to say it but I believe it true.

Fast forward to my first dog a GSD that I got off Craigslist from some guys back yard. I guess I didn't learn from my parents. It's turned out ok. It's terrifying how bad it could have turned out. He has been a difficult dog.

Your not alone and I understand. Sorry you have to go through this. Thank you for sharing.

 

Yeah it's a pretty harsh lesson especially with bigger dogs. I've learned though.

 

What exactly do you want any of us to do? You come - we give advice. You're totally rotten to people who try to help you. You come again - we give advice. Again you are rotten. Do you want us emotionally invested in your situation? We are. For the dog. But nobody here needs to take abuse from you. Return the puppy to the breeder. If that's not an option, then you do you.

You are correct. There is no sense going back and forth. You just want to fight with people. Nobody should be giving you that satisfaction.

 

What exactly do you want any of us to do? You come - we give advice. You're totally rotten to people who try to help you. You come again - we give advice. Again you are rotten. Do you want us emotionally invested in your situation? We are. For the dog. But nobody here needs to take abuse from you. Return the puppy to the breeder. If that's not an option, then you do you.

You are correct. There is no sense going back and forth. You just want to fight with people. Nobody should be giving you that satisfaction.

I actually dont want to fight with anyone. Nobody is taking abuse from anyone, it's a GSD thread online. I don't believe in trainers for day to day life activities that 99% of dogs develop on their own with loving, active families like us. I got the dog from a backyard breeder who clearly has genetic issues taking place from aggressive parents. Who's fault is that? Mine. Advice isn't "get a trainer" I want to know who's DEALT with these issues. Not throwing thousands at someone who won't fix my issues.

 

How can we help you?

 

Her time is done, she will need to be with someone who does not mind the liability issues she has. I just came here to share a tough lesson learned.

 

It seems the OP is just here to vent and recommend that puppy buyers should meet the parents of the litter they are considering. Not asking for any advice today.

 

Such a sad situation. I agree about the backyard breeders but truth be told it is complicated and even dogs from top genetic lines can have issues. There is not enough information given for me to pass judgement on this dog, but I do know that most, but not all dogs, with similar problems can be trained and trust can be built with the owner to work out these issues. Training doesn't have to come from a professional trainer but if one isn't willing or capable of researching and learning how to DIY, the right trainer can be invaluable. In my experience vets are great at what they do, but it isn't training or even focused on dog behavior. It seems to me that the OP is wanting validation for his decision to "have closure" and has given up on the problem. Given that there is a young child in the home, this may be the best decision. As to next steps, euthansia may be the only option because finding someone to take on the problem at this point will be difficult.

 

Video of this 6 month old female GSD in "moderately aggressive" situation possible?

 

You got a dog with questionable genetics. No one is arguing with you about that. You obviously don’t want advice or suggestions but the very people you are discounting are the ones who have dealt with aggression and saved their dogs. If you don’t want to deal with it, then give up the dog. But don’t say trainers won’t fix your issues. If you were even the slightest bit polite to someone like bearshandler, you would get a solution from him or from Jax or several others who posted. If you shut down dialogue, you won’t get any help. If you want to share your general location, we could find you a decent trainer who could train you. The solution is not board and train for the dog it’s training for you to become a competent handler. You have a fearful dog who you said makes you nervous about what she’s going to do. It is your behavior that is allowing her to act on her nerves. As her owner, it is your responsibility to show her a different way to behave.

The problem is here, you guys think these dogs can all be fixed. I have been around these dogs my entire life. I've owned several up until the day they died. Dogs do have issues that can't be fixed. Truth is, Ava isn't right. And that's okay I've accepted it. I am trying to figure out options for her.

 

This is just a vent post, to anyone who sees it you're 100% fine to leave whatever feedback you'd like. Maybe my story will show how important it is to buy from reputable breeders/meet the parents of your great GSD. It's just closure for me at this point

If you've seen my last posts on my page, I have a now 6 month old GSD female who had, and still has pretty moderate aggressive issues. Which has worsened since then with the the new addition of aggression.

I first knew something was off when I got her, she wasn't excited to see anyone, and wanted to run right back to the back yard where she was. (8 weeks) when we brought her home, she warmed up and became our best friend. We took her everywhere with us, inside stores, parks, walks and she was absolutely great. Doing fantastic actually. She let people approach, pet, and didn't mind kids at all. She would follow us off the leash, got over her fear of stairs immediately. She learned, sit, stay, Spin, shake, down faster than I've seen any other dog learn. I took her to the vet for updated shots, and she did great there as well. Just normal, typical development of a puppy.

One day, at the 3 month old mark she found her voice and began barking at everyone she saw, and dogs. This behavior came from thin air. She would stop listening to commands, and would not redirect her attention even in the presence of treats. In the house, still our same dog we had since 8 weeks. Outside, a completely different personality, and remember, everything was fine up until the 3 month old point. I didn't really mind the barking because she eventually let me redirect her attention and would get over it so that was improvement.

One day at a park, a little girl my daughter's age was there (3) and Ava was on her back lets lunging, eyes completely white trying to get this little girl who wasn't acting sporadic or crazy. That was the day she truly scared me, and I realized then I did not have a normal dog. These behaviors never stopped after that. Introducing, seeing or even smelling another dog isn't an option for her and believe me I tried. Kids, are absolutely a no go for her. She's lunged and attempted to bite several, and I have to leave the park immediately. And for those who think "how's her exercise?" Its great and always has been. She runs and jumps excellent, very athletic dog. Her recent food aggression is just another "what else"? If you approach her, she gets very stiff, snarls and growls as a grown man, it's actually scary experienceing it. She never showed any food aggression before. She doesnt with her toys or anything else for now. If it was just me and my wife I would just let her eat, but I have a 3 year who who this dog is now bigger than. There's no such thing as her attacking my child.

On a recent trip to the vet, they tried taking her out back to see how she was and she "lunged" and "tried to bite". The vet was very concerned with her I could tell. She suggested some anxiety medication, both situational and long term. I gave it a try and there's been zero difference. On a road trip I stopped by a family members house in Illinois and gave the situational medication a try. It's a "sedation" type deal and didn't work AN OUNCE. She got out of the uhaul and acted straight horrible. I was actually shocked. Several people told me something was definitely off with her. They suggested the parents were probably very aggressive and it passed down to her. Unfortunately for her, she's now a massive liability and somebody WILL get hurt. I do not have the thousands of dollars for "room and board" training that ultimately wouldn't work, a guy already turned me down for it. She acts like an animal that's been chained up in a backyard and saw one person their entire life.

I've been around several GSDs and they are outstanding dogs. From highly trained police K9s my step father had to GSDs out of a friend's back yard.

"Why didn't you train or that dog wasn't aggressive" the dog is absolutely aggressive I don't care if they know how to be at 6 months or not, she did. I reached out to a couple trainers who to my surprise, didn't want to do it.

Ava was born into the world by negligence. The "breeder" didn't know what he was doing, and I should have never went through with the transaction. Bad lessons learned here, always meet the parents.

I've read your other posts too and imo your dog just sounds like a normal German Shepherd. You just don't know how to handle her. Veterinarians are not trainers like other posters have stated and they favor positive only tactics that are useless when it comes to German Shepherds. When these force free trainers can't handle simple aggression they resort to drugs. This is becoming a real problem...the blind leading the blind.

 

No german shepherd I've ever seen, from puppy to retired K9 acts like she does. Thanks though.

 

It will be a closure if it is confirmed that her bad genetics is the problem, I think euthanasia would be the best option for the dog and human.

HOWEVER, you should get her evaluated by someone who has extensive experience with GSD as @wolfy dog advised.

Otherwise that closure would come with guilt that you could have saved her.

 

I think euthanasia would be the best option for the dog and human.

Why do I just keep coming back to this sentence? 😈

Add me in for advocating that the right trainer can make all the difference. I spoke "large working class dog" very fluently before I got my shepherd and after that I had to learn to speak specifically "shepherd" to get thru to my knucklehead and make him a manageable dog. And it took working with a trainer who also works with border patrol and the police. Funny thing, I take my dog to the trainer's vet and they can manage him fine and tell me how sweet a boy I have compared to the trainer's dogs but I take my dog to other vets and they are muzzling him and piling on him in the back room.

 

A video would be super useful.

 

I am ok with being the bad guy. I will say this to my dying breath, kids are my line in the sand. ANY dog that shows aggression toward a child needs to go. Never mind a breed that is supposed to adore children. I can put up with a dog preferring to not interact, but nothing more.
IF this dog has been evaluated, IF this is aggression and not misunderstood excitement/frustration, take her out for a cheeseburger and say good bye.
Zero tolerance for that behavior.

 

I am ok with being the bad guy. I will say this to my dying breath, kids are my line in the sand. ANY dog that shows aggression toward a child needs to go. Never mind a breed that is supposed to adore children. I can put up with a dog preferring to not interact, but nothing more.
IF this dog has been evaluated, IF this is aggression and not misunderstood excitement/frustration, take her out for a cheeseburger and say good bye.
Zero tolerance for that behavior.

Exactly what my thoughts are. This is not misunderstood excitement. German Shepherds are outstanding family dogs. Any one that ive come across has been stern and aware, but ok in almost any situation.

 

Sabi, agreed. I would love to know what a good evaluator would advice, not some random back yard trainer so the OP would know how to proceed in finding the best home, maybe with the help of a club if the dog is considered sane. A very common nick name for this age is Land Shark for good reason. Mine were eye openers to a whole new world of dog training. But mine came from a good breeder with great support from them.
OP: please answer the following questions so we can help you hopefully: Who is the breeder, have you contacted them, where are you located? I understand you may be at work and don't have time to answer but at least you owe it to her to give us information since you came here for answers.

 

Sabi, agreed. I would love to know what a good evaluator would advice, not some random back yard trainer so the OP would know how to proceed in finding the best hoe, maybe with the help of a club if the dog is considered sane. A very common nick name for this age is Land Shark for good reason. Mine were eye openers to a whole new world of dog training. But mine came from a good breeder with great support from them.
OP: please answer the following questions so we can help you hopefully: Who is the breeder, have you contacted them, where are you located? I understand you may be at work and don't have time to answer but at least you owe it to her to give us information since you came here for answers.

This was a backyard breeder from the Dallas area. I have since relocated to West Virginia. There unfortunately no such thing to contact them it wasn't that type of transaction. But I got her at 8 weeks old.

 

We live four houses down from an aggressive GSD. And we’re in the city so four houses = 100 ft so we see that dog often. It’s owners are an older couple, no kids, one other dog. The dog is aggressive to people and dogs other than for the owners and the other dog in the home. They don’t let the dog interact with anyone or anything out on walks, let people know proactively he’s aggressive and apologize profusely for the behavior. My only point is there are people out there who will provide a loving home and have the right environment and capacity/tolerance to do so. He’s a rescue and they knew what they were getting into.

Maybe you’re right that there’s no hope and maybe where you live there aren’t any options or a good way to explore them. But I think everyone on this thread would like to know you’re exhausting all options because we care about the dog getting a fair shake. That’s why people keep asking for your general location (to help you find options) or for video to see if they can pick up on something you might be missing. I know you don’t want advice. This isn’t advice - it’s just a comment about why you’re getting feedback. All of us are here for a reason which is that we have a strong affinity for this breed of dog and we all know the investment of time, energy and effort required for it to pay off. It seems you’ve certainly learned some lessons from this experience. Maybe, there are a few more lessons still to be learned. Not advice. Just a thought.

 

We live four houses down from an aggressive GSD. And we’re in the city so four houses = 100 ft so we see that dog often. It’s owners are an older couple, no kids, one other dog. The dog is aggressive to people and dogs other than for the owners and the other dog in the home. They don’t let the dog interact with anyone or anything out on walks, let people know proactively he’s aggressive and apologize profusely for the behavior. My only point is there are people out there who will provide a loving home and have the right environment and capacity/tolerance to do so. He’s a rescue and they knew what they were getting into.

Maybe you’re right that there’s no hope and maybe where you live there aren’t any options or a good way to explore them. But I think everyone on this thread would like to know you’re exhausting all options because we care about the dog getting a fair shake. That’s why people keep asking for your general location (to help you find options) or for video to see if they can pick up on something you might be missing. I know you don’t want advice. This isn’t advice - it’s just a comment about why you’re getting feedback. All of us are here for a reason which is that we have a strong affinity for this breed of dog and we all know the investment of time, energy and effort required for it to pay off. It seems you’ve certainly learned some lessons from this experience. Maybe, there are a few more lessons still to be learned. Not advice. Just a thought.

I have provided my location several times. I know there are options for her, but with my child and other kids she's becoming to be not an option for me. It's completely selfish of me to keep a dog I KNOW would attack and permanently damage a child for the rest of its life. That's not an option to me.

 

If she's that dangerous then there aren't "options", there's AN option. You can't keep her - fine. But you can't pass her off to anyone else either, that would be grossly irresponsible.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind, so I'm not sure what you're expecting to get out of this thread, unless it's validation for your decision.

 

If she's that dangerous then there aren't "options", there's AN option. You can't keep her - fine. But you can't pass her off to anyone else either, that would be grossly irresponsible.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind, so I'm not sure what you're expecting to get out of this thread, unless it's validation for your decision.

Well the first thing I said was this was a vent post.

 

That's a shame, but that can happen with a backyard breeder especially if you didn't meet the parents. It would be different if she was lunging to greet the kids along with tail wagging & barking. My first reaction was perhaps it's fear based, but it seems to be pure aggression. Sad. Not in your control.

 

No wagging tail or sense of excitement whatsoever. It's 100% aggression towards kids who aren't doing anything or paying her any attention.

 

This was a vent post and a warning about purchasing poorly bred dogs, especially without seeing the parents.

 

I'm just going to throw out there that bribing a dog with treats will never work in that scenario.

I understand that you have been around a few GSDs and this one is different.

Without hands on that dog, I can't say what's going on, but in my experience, owners almost always mis diagnose their dogs. They just don't typically have the experience to handle a high drive, frustrated dog. I'm not saying that's your particular situation, but it is something I see regularly.

I was a professional dog trainer for a decade before I went through handler school. My dog had bitten several handlers and was aggressive towards everyone, including me. She bit be 4 times the first week I had her. After a couple months, she was a different dog. She ended up retiring in my home and her best buddy was my 4 year old granddaughter.

Another anecdotal story that is closer to this situation. My granddaughter's other grandma had an ASL pup. He was much as you describe. He would draw blood and leave bruises all over the owner and the grandkids. Crazy reactive to everything, including small kids and dogs. He injured his owner hitting the end of the leash trying to go after a guy.

He was fine after a couple weeks with me and ended up a nice family dog after a couple months. He still doesn't settle well, but he's safe and regularly goes out in public to baseball games and to the hardware.

Again, I'm not trying to impose any of this onto your dog, as I haven't met the dog. I'm just making a point that I don't feel this dog has been evaluated by a qualified individual.

Veterinarians are not trainers or behaviorist. Pet smart trainers are not trainers or behaviorist.

I suggest you contact Larry Krohn at Pac Masters.

 

I'm just going to throw out there that bribing a dog with treats will never work in that scenario.

I understand that you have been around a few GSDs and this one is different.

Without hands on that dog, I can't say what's going on, but in my experience, owners almost always mis diagnose their dogs. They just don't typically have the experience to handle a high drive, frustrated dog. I'm not saying that's your particular situation, but it is something I see regularly.

I was a professional dog trainer for a decade before I went through handler school. My dog had bitten several handlers and was aggressive towards everyone, including me. She bit be 4 times the first week I had her. After a couple months, she was a different dog. She ended up retiring in my home and her best buddy was my 4 year old granddaughter.

Another anecdotal story that his closer to this situation. My granddaughter's other grandma had an ASL pup. He was much as you describe. He would draw blood and leave bruises all over the owner and the grandkids. Crazy reactive to everything, including small kids and dogs. He injured his owner hitting the end of the leash trying to go after a guy.

Her was fine after a couple weeks with me and ended up a nice family dog after a couple months. He still doesn't settle well, but he's safe and regularly goes out in public to baseball games and to the hardware.

Again, I'm not trying to impose any of this onto your dog, as I haven't met the dog. I'm just making a point that I don't feel this dog has been evaluated by a qualified individual.

Veterinarians are not trainers or behaviorist. Pet smart trainers are not trainers or behaviorist.

I suggest you contact Larry Krohn at Pac Masters.

In the scenario you listed, what exactly did you do in a couple of weeks to completely turn the dog around? It's a genuine question.

I know vets are not behaviorist and pets mart training is low class. I just mentioned several people all told me the same thing without knowing eachother. By biggest concern is her severely injuring a child. I can deal with food aggression, or barking at adults/dogs. I can 'usually' redirect her attention with those issues but somedays she won't allow it. I am very consistent with how we do this as well. I know treats in those situations aren't the way, but when I say she won't redirect her attention, she won't redirect even with that and she's the most highly food driven dog I've owned.

 

Wanting to attack kids like that is just scary. When did this start occurring? Did she always show signs when you first got her?

 

No. The only thing off putting was that she wasn't happy to see us, but we figured she was scared. She quickly warmed up and went to stores with us, I took her to the park everyday with my daughter and other kids would pet her ETC. This behavior randomly started and has never shown any signs of improvement, it's probably gotten worse to be honest.

 

Have you tried a prong collar and walking with a toy? I need to teach my girl place outside during walks. My trainer already said for me to stop using the prong I got yesterday. She said just turn around when I see another dog coming. I know currently she won't last long with place due to the distant between the other dog but a toy might work better than a treat. She's improved a lot with dogs barking a bit from their yards at her. If she's happy to see your family it seems she could be worked with. Some dogs during training aren't food or toy driven so try finding something else. Perhaps a big stick? When she barks around other kids now what type of corrections have you tried so far? Or taking baby steps with her. Start at a distant she's comfortable with and then lure her back to you with a leave it command if she knows it before she reacts. She has hormones developing too.