Yes, essentially... As I'm sure you know (I enjoy reading your educational posts alot) reading your dog during tracking /trailing is imperative to knowing if they are in or out of odor/scent. Some dogs if encouraged to keep tracking when they pause or start casting themselves to locate stronger odor, or odor at all, get worried and start leading you off on a wild goose chase. By working negatives (or casting your dog in areas out of odor off track) and watching when your dog sends a 'negative' an indication that (s) /he has lost scent (usually the dog looks at you, head pops up looks around, etc) you praise them. Let them know it is OK if they run out of scent and to keep looking and acuire/require it.. Hopefully, the dog then is comfortable when a scent is lost and can stay focused in reaquiring it and not just pull in the harness and Forge ahead out of fear.

Hope that makes sense, lol..

 

I wonder how it would apply to footstep tracking, like in sport. The only thing I can think of that's similar is with flags. Putting a bunch of them out so he doesn't focus in on the one at the scent pad and try to drag right to it. Thats probably not even very close. So much of it is obedience, I can't really figure out how to make a comparison. When mine casts about with wind or something, I generally just stop and look for him to do what you mentioned, re- aquire it.

Its just so structured from the beginning on scent pads to going forward on a track. Even with cross tracks and different covers, it just doesnt have the variables. But the recognizable indication of on scent and off scent is something I always wondered about. I've never seen anyone explain the training of it like this.

 

Hmm.. As I haven't done competition tracking and only know about it from a read about standpoint, I am not sure... I mean both scenarios (real world and competitive) require a dog to be read correctly. In real world tracking (I will call it trailing from here on out for ease of typing off my phone, lol) the dog is allowed to follow the strongest point of scent be it on or off the actual track. 'smooth negatives', or negatives where the dog runs out of scent but double back a few feet and continues on barely interrupting the forward flow, happens often. When a strong negative occurs it is usually due to the dog working fringe scent and missing a turn, or a broken chain in scent (as often it is very aged trails or over asphalt variable surface). In that case, knowing your dog is comfortable letting you know they have lost scent is crucial to not being pulled further down the wrong way due to fear of not having scent. The dog who alerts a negative allows us to post (stand still and allow the dog to cast themselves back over previously covered areas) until they reaquire the track.

In competitive tracking I believe you are FST solely. So the dog is slow, methodical and probably doesn't cast much outside of the first initial cast to start.. Is that correct? You get points for how closely they stay on the exact track and the dogs nose staying on the ground... If I'm not mistaken. I can see how the negative might indirectly affect a score as I don't know how you direct a dog if they lose the track, unless you do cast at turns... If AKC tracking, I believe this would be very applicable as it is allowed to trail giving leeway for the dog to lift nose, overshoot, etc... Please educate me on the tracking for IPO or other titles... And please feel free to post about your tracks you run. My thread had become more about each track/trail I had done with or without negatives as I wasn't getting any responses and I want to learn

 

Yeah, IPO is footstep to footstep. The beginning is at a scent pad that you want them to work, but not cast around. If they raise their head you'll lose points. The first two minutes of this is a little rough start. Yellow Jackets on the scent pad that he followed, and there's so many deer tracks, tire tracks, turkeys are always in there, you can see when he loses the track, I just stop, but I know pretty closely where the track is. If he was to quit working it, I would take him to where he left it and restart him there. Maybe even lightly correct him forward on it. Most of the time I'm only 6-12 feet behind him too. I go back to 33' once in a while, but for training, I'm mostly close enough to give him some input if I have to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itKeLRYbJgY

I'm no where near an expert on tracking. Its something I'm always looking for help with.

 

That was a great video to see exactly what and how you train What was the distance the track length was? I also see you know the direction of travel, is this just in practice or also in competition (knowing the direction of travel?)? I would think you would have mild contamination in competition (deer, squirrels, turkey, etc.). Do you have human crosstracks as well?

(we) don't tend to correct the dog for going off track unless it is purposely dinking around. Even then it is usually a mild correction as we don't want to kill the drive. Being able to recast a dog if they somehow lost the track is an asset.. But I can thoroughly see how much work and dedication it takes to train a good tracking dog. Your dog was so purposeful in each step (was he eating food on occasion as well, or just clacking his jaws? Couldn't tell for sure from the distance) and so good on the articles.. I haven't been good at teaching an alert (specific) for articles, Areli basically noses it and usually moves on or if it is a favorite person carries it (not good if in a criminal setting) for a bit.

 

Thanks. It was 300 paces. Yeah, there's food here and there, usually after something like a change in the terrain or a corner. Its partially buried too, most of the time. You know the direction of the track on a 1 because you lay it and its one of 2 patterns. There's probably always going to be some contamination, but in that one area, there's a lot.

Tracking's a lot of work, that's for sure. I'm always interested in hearing exactly how you guys train specific things in the real work. Its all pretty cool.

 

Yes the dogs nose and their ability to interpret what they smell is astonishing... Well, real world tracking/trailing is usually geared towards a purpose :locating a human, drugs, bombs, game etc... I've personally enjoyed TTD which allows the dog to move at the speed they are comfortable with (dogs can smell well in advance of their stride so jogging, even running is possible) and allows, even expects the dog to overshoot a corner or turn, BUT the dog will course correct in a few strides (smooth negatives). For me, food is only given when the subject is found. The dogs desire to track is never inhibited by speed or forced (otherwise it would become inconsistent, and for SAR work that would be life ending potentially).

In ttd (tracking through drive to out a 'name' on it) the dog starts off with longer tracks then with FST, again, encouraging the dogs forward movement into the scent and channeling their prey and hunt drive into finding a given subject. We do start with known tracks and progress to blind tracks, no known direction of travel, contamination and of course urban and variable surfaces (although I introduced VST early on, like the first day, lol. Not asphalt, but grass to packed dirt to gravel)... Gradually the aging of the trails/tracks and combinations of aged, contamination, blind, distance, VST, etc to represent what will be crossed in an actual search... Hope that helps at least how I train..

 

Worked a 17hr old close to 2 mile aged track this morning.... Definitely learned I can not drive my subject back to the hiding spot and drive back to start my track... And expect my girl to start on the aged track and ignore the freshest scent that spilled out of the open window while placing my subject, lol...

Anyhow, I cast her and she found the aged track start and moved forward on it with more pace than I expected. We crossed over the primitive road and since there was only one path I figured my subject took (the easiest) I was surprised when my girl stayed on the primitive road... I stopped her and cast her over the path.. She sniffed it and then jogged right back to the road... 'ok'.. Every once and awhile I would see other paths and cast her over them to see if we could acquire the older track as I was suspicious that she was on the spilled scent from the car (still would've been over a mile just on the primitive road but distance was only to build endurance, I wanted the aging)... Finally, about a half mile up I can't her over a path and she opted to take it; we were finally on the aged track... She flushed a turkey and would've chased it if she hadn't been reminded to focus, she did and continued well on the track... As we got to the river, she wanted to go side to side, we'll that wasn't going to work because it was deep in most places...she works off of a 33' line so I could allow her to work across the river a ways and be sure the scent continued that way instead of just spilling into the water way... She finally selected a spot across the river that had a solid scent trail, of course it had 2 large stones about 5' apart I had to leapfrog across... I did.. Yay... As I jogged up the hill and ducked under a tree I felt smug that I hadn't gotten wet (hey, age robs you of athleticism - and your confidence in yourself that you can do it)... Next thing I know I am knee deep in a muddy bog!! ARGH!! Survived not having it be a facial by an inch.. Fun... Areli didn't have any dirt on her, she must've jumped over it the little $#@t could have at least warned me, lol.. Outside of one low scent up a Ridge she wanted to investigate and I began to follow and whacked me knee on a limb ("no really, Areli, go ahead, make sure the scent doesn't continue... I'm just going to throw up right her" man that hurt!) there was no further instance.. We found our subject safe and secure, I left Areli to get praise and treats and went to the river for a bath!

Not quite how I planned it, but I was pleased she did so well in both fresh and aged scent... Not to nurse my knee and take a shower...

 

Omgosh... Such a funny thing happened!.. So we did another close to 2mile blind track today.. Wind was 11mph from the south and cool (67f).. It was a hot track and Areli began well, she followed some fringe scent for about 10ft and immediately doubled back and found the off trail path taken...it was all UPHILL ugh, and she wanted to fast jog it... We compromised... Jog 30yrds then walk 30yrds..she selected every path correctly and we found our subject in record time.... On the way back I had coiled the 33'ft line and was walking back my arms swinging back and forth as we descended on the track... Akivah had gone with my subject to help her feel safe and both Areli and Akivah were running around having fun... Areli raced by my right side Akivah to her right and somehow she (and he partly) got her (their) head in the coils, I flew forward 5' or so my sunglasses flew the other direction about 2'... To say it hurt is an understatement as I think I got whiplash... I landed on my right side (good thing too as my left arm is messed up) and pack.. I just lay there and had Areli lassoed standing and looking at me very concerned (probably hurt her too)... My subject and sister had started to laugh after the shock of what happened passed but realized 911 was probably the next step, lol... To her credit she didn't finish the laugh until later when I could laugh... I sure wish I had had it videos because my feet were parallel to the ground.. I FLEW! lol! I picked up quite a few bruises and will now be sure to keep my coils small and bunched....

 

Worked Areli again and she was wonderful. Figure I would try Akivah again (he has been being worked on HRD as his maturity for area search wasn't there... I think insecurity) on trail. It is what I started him in the first place.... My subject laid a half mile blind track. I had 2 people following behind me... I scented him and cast him.. He barked and turned circles and it took about 30 seconds for him to focus, but when he did he dropped his nose and found and followed the track... She had crossed the river a couple of times and worked her way back into the woods and Akivah was pretty much dead on.. He was easy to read and stayed focused (even when a bird taunted him and flew close enough for him to chase - one of his favorite things to do).. I noticed he had lost scent and started walking him back about 100ft when he pulled and crossed the river again.. I watched him (I let go of the line as crossing the river in that spot wasn't going to happen for a practice ) he continued to work and a few moments later I heard the praise from the subject.. We all joined in and he was one proud puppy!! So I'm going to start to include him into the trailing calender as well YAY AKIVAH!

 

Have a conference and certification coming up so have been practicing some specifics with a teammate. Did a 20hr aged double blind track (hers was 18hrs old) and our dogs did awesome and found their subjects in great time and with little difficulty. Thankfully the weather has been cooler which I am sure helped keep odor viable despite the fairly heavy contamination.

Worked the high school today during a football game and my girl was awesome! I however cannot believe I pulled her off of odor 20yrds from the subject!! I had sudden abdominal pain and guess I had a brain infarction too... I am so mad at myself! The wind was blowing into us and she had been dead on the track layers tracks (it was blind but the debrief and gps showed we were isn't on top of her path) until the wind change. She air scented and hesitated a moment, I thought she threw me a negative and for whatever reason my patience was gone and I did the stupidest of things ever! I pulled her from the spot and recast... She was disgusted, lol.. I broke the blind (was still having some intestinal cramping and wanted to finish before something bad happened, sorry if TMI) and found out we were a stones throw away before I became a moron... So I cast her over known scent and let her work her way back up to the spot and to her subject... Normally, she eats her treats and has a look of ultimate pride - the praise is just affirmation of what she knows: she is awesome... This time though, she ate her treats and when I praised her too she lowered her head and wagged her tail sheepishly... Uh oh... I screwed up... She is a medium dog, easy in some things to correct but solid on the line, a jerk on the line on accident doesn't phase her, especially if she knows she is right.. To suddenly duck her head....

So after some rest and thought, I went back out and had a small (less than half mile) track laid. Double blind. She was eager to go and so I scented her and cast her and we were off, we weaved through trees and crossed paths and found our subject much to her delight.. She ate up the praise and had her swag back ... I undid her harness and the little punk took off after some deer!! Argh! This was at an airport (rural but busy) and she ran down the runway like she was taking off... Could have killed her... She came back grinning ear to ear... I didn't reprimand this time as I wanted the solid finish.. But next time I will have the ecology on and remind her that her recall has been solid and will remain that way, lol...

 

OK.. Haven't posted in a long time so here are some updates... Areli is certified Level 3 ASCT trailing (basically 12hr (ours was 16hrs)aged, 1.5miles,2hr time limit (we did it well under an hour) double blind, water crossings, intersections etc) and Akivah is trailing now and I'm trying to set up the date for his certification.. I will recertify Areli probably in Sept and maybe test for a level 4 and Akivah will test for level 3.

Both dogs are working on cadaver now as well.. Areli has had her first deployment and got direction of travel on an 8hr old urban trail.. Subject was found by police though, so while 'yay' she did her job, we didn't really have much of a hand(paw) in it.. We are on five teams :O and are the only dog teams on three of them..

Most recent aha moments was on a 20hr aged double blind trail.. Scent article was left at PLS so I could start when ready. Well, when trail was laid there were no campers.. When I cam the next day the area was populated, and right by the exposed scent article.. Uh oh.. Yup, my girl took the freshest scent and about a mile out she started giving a proximity alert, but we were deep (deep deep) in the forest and my subject was not one to do this, especially when having to go back to be in place for the find.. So I radioed.. Yep, wrong scent.. I was seeing footprints and totally thought we were on! So we recast at the PLS and this time I used the subject name and new direction of travel to start.. She hit the trail and was excellent, found her subject and all was good.. So now, all scent articles are baggied..well,then the next week the baggies scent article was picked up and run off with by an animal, so I had to scent the dogs off of just casting in the area and pray the aged track was the freshest track.. Akivah found that one and I scented my girl off the car seat instead.. Found the scent article 100ft away in the trees, teeth marks in it.. So all scent articles are baggied, marked (so people don't pick them up) and kept with me until I deploy the dog(s), lol...

Trust your dog... Trust your dog... Trust your dog... Trust your dog is a mantra I have to say often as my subjects seem to be horrible at following simple directions... I swear, I want to do a technical trail for training purposes and ask for a left, right, left, right type urban trail and I guarantee I will get anything but! So I end up pulling my dog off expecting it to be the way I asked, and nope, my doggies are right, I suck!

Seriously though, I am very proud of them.. We work several miles of trails (usually both dogs one after the other, so I get a freaking awesome workout, lol) a couple of times a week.. Can't wait until summer when we can do it most everyday again.. Hard to stay sharp with only a couple a week (each dog)..

Our negatives are getting really good.. Both dogs know to come back to me and or, sit if they don't find the specific odor... Gives me confidence when they are on track and things seem hinky.. I've learned their body language and tells much much better and can usually tell if they are mildly crittering while working the scent... Proximity alerts are well recognized and I am super proud of Akivah who has really matured alot.. He is still goofy and the malamute part won't ever allow the German Shepherd in him to fully take over, but that also makes him endearing..

Areli is freaking amazing.. She is so dedicated to her job and comes out of the car with her nose glued to the ground... Once I get Akivah certified and Areli recertified, I might be looking for a new pup, lol! Then I can not do all the oops I learned with these two and do what I know I should do with the pup as it grows.. We will see.. Still have to certify in cadaver and maybe area, so plenty, plenty plenty of work left to do.. But trailing is truly my favorite (and the dogs, they get giddy when the harness comes out)

 

Just a reminder, this thread is open to ANY track /trailers.. I am hungry for feedback from others.. It is how we learn... So, post away, if there are any others doing tracking (IPO, AKC, fun) mantrailing (SAR, LE, etc)..

 

Just popping in to say that I love this thread and am drinking it up. I just started tracking with my boy and we love it. You cast a wonderful narrative that is enjoyable to read

 

We are planning and excited to tracking in the near future. I'm sure then this thread will be very helpful. When I was a little kid I used to have my little brother hide in the woods and have our dog find him - I always had an interest in this.

 

Thank you Chai Are you tracking for sport (IPO, AKC,..?) or 'just' for fun? It is really addictive I think..

Jenny, same question for you eager to read both of your progress

 

We have joined a tracking club where you compete for titles, but it follows the SAR style of tracking. We've just started IPO but may not take part in tracking component since my dog already loves he other style of tracking so much.

We mostly do it for fun

 

The trainer that I will be training with is the same I'm training with in nose works and obedience she has has titled many dogs in iPo and and will be taught iPo style tracking. It will be introducing us to tracking and we will have an option to go further in either direction in akc tracking or iPo tracking if chosen. I am doing this for fun and knowing I have a dog that can track and learn so much more about it to me is a very good thing to have. I'm not really sure where it else it will lead as of now. Right now we are learning nose works and max loves it. The other day my sister and nephew were coming over. I was in the backyard with max and he lifted his big head up sniffing the air. I knew what he was doing and who must be here. He happily/excitingly ran across the yard to the front gate to greet them and I saw my sister just pulling in our driveway. Nose works and tracking is really what I planned to do even before we got max so I'm very happy he really enjoys it. He has relatives that are cadaver dogs I just find the whole thing so exciting and really respect the dogs and handlers that are out there doing this kind of work for real.

 

so very addicting just happy to have something that we both enjoy together!!!!!!

 

That is awesome Jenny! It is so cool when we learn how to read our dogs, especially when distinguishing between a human scent and another.. Watching them work and seeing all the nuances of body language, breathing.. It is beautiful to watch and addictive to participate in.. Not to mention the bonding that comes from such close teamwork.. Very cool! Can't wait to hear your updates as you progress..

 

Yes and it is very much an enjoyable and addicting journey!!!!

 

We have joined a tracking club where you compete for titles, but it follows the SAR style of tracking. We've just started IPO but may not take part in tracking component since my dog already loves he other style of tracking so much. We mostly do it for fun


So true, once the dog gets a taste of Trailing, which is natural for the dog, there isn't any real easy way to go back to disciplined, methodical, slow tracking.. Usually the handler's feel the same way (No slam meant for IPO tracking, there is an art to IPO tracking)

 

So true, once the dog gets a taste of Trailing, which is natural for the dog, there isn't any real easy way to go back to disciplined, methodical, slow tracking.. Usually the handler's feel the same way (No slam meant for IPO tracking, there is an art to IPO tracking)

Some of my dog's siblings are in SAR and so maybe trailing is in his blood he just loves it and I love being out there with him. I am hoping to get into IPO seriously in a few years with a WL and so I know I'll get my chance to get into IPO tracking soon. It looks very interesting!

 

After trailing you might find it difficult to be so technical with tracking.. I would definitely teach tracking to the IPO dog before trailing, though.. You can teach a tracking dog to trail easily but training a trailing dog to track, IPO style, is next to insane... IPO is mostly FST and not scent discrimination. Dog is scenting ground disturbance and crushed vegetation over human scent... Very methodical and strict adherence to the exact track is expected for good points.. So definitely teach tracking before trailing

Yes, trailing is for me, like watching a house be built from scratch (in high speed, lol).. You get to see snippets of what the ultimate shape and look of the place will be at certain points.. Sometimes, you are clueless as to when 'the bigger picture' will come and then suddenly, bam! The house is done and the subject is found... Watching the dog work is like poetry, flowing wherever the scent has fallen, wagging tails at moments of intense odor or when they solved a scent pool, head pops as odor tickles their nose and lures them to shortcut the trail - or not, just an elusive snippet of scent that tempts them, but their dedication to the odor and the strength of that odor keeps them on the path.. The picture of what the tracklayer did is laid out with wags, snuffle, head pops, excited sniffs and full body pull in the harness.. Just awesome imho, lol

 

Since my subject abandoned me and won't be here this weekend (boo) I worked the dogs on HR. My girl was super focused and got all 3 (stomach blood, teeth and placenta) with excellent indications (often she would tail wag so I knew she was in odor but she wasn't 100% on her passive alert) and clean alerts.. Yay progress.. My boy, who normally is really really good, was off. He found his sources, but seemed unsure and hesitant to alert.. Not sure why, but it isn't his norm so I will see if something is changing or it was just an off day...

Hoping and praying I can bribe someone to lay some trails for me over the weekend.. One of the worst aspects of SAR is the absolute necessity to train alot and the requirements that takes (other people, new settings, etc).. I personally love it but it is a pita trying to get everything together as often as is needed...

 

Hmm.. Soo, let me see, in June my girl and I were deployed on a 74hr aged search for a 73yr old hiking the PNWT... Pouring rain, fog, unbelievable rugged terrain, and she worked so beautifully! Had never worked aging that old and the weather, as much as it was wet and cold (44f) was beneficial (and hindrance)... She got DOT and we confirmed direction of travel (DOT) over 30 miles (she trailed about 5miles in separate spots we reached by car) before confirming some boot prints and hiking pole marks were the subjects... She trailed right to the women's restroom... Subject was later 'found' at the containment area predicted by my team alive and well... My girl and our team ROCKED!

Have learned a few new things NOT to do... One is: don't assume your indestructible phone is waterproof when you fall into a 6' deep creek hidden by tall grass... Because it is not! Expensive lesson.. Life proof case on new phone..
Two: be REALLLLY REALLY CAREFUL when you casting your dog after scenting her when you say 'good girl' or 'find' em' especially if dog is sniffing open window of a car, because she just might switch on you and drag your sorry behind up the freaking ski Hill for a half mile before you realize something is not right... Go back to PLS and see her sniff the car and realize she has taken the wrong odor due to my ill timed 'find' em'... That was fun, not!
Three: hornets can crawl down your shirt and sting the beejippities out of you before you can find a way to get them out of your shirt... OUCH!
Four: and this is obvious.. TRUST YOUR FREAKING DOG!!!! Man, if I can ever learn to stop 'outhinking' myself and my dog we will be an unstoppable team(s)...
Five: just because you put your scent article in a baggie (last time I didn't, someone touched the scent article (why? Who knows why someone would pick up someone else sock, but they did) and we went and found them ((eyeroll)) and not our subject) doesn't mean the wildlife won't muck with your scent article! Some coyote took it for a run for about 50yds!
Six: the unfortunates of life is that not all people (including teammates) will be happy that you are being successful.. In fact, they may try to make life a living hot place.. But if you (I) remember why you (I) do this : to save people lives, well then those naysayers aren't so important in the grand scheme of things...

There are more lessons and a few other cool trails run, but typing on my phone sucks and so, I sign off for now.. Keep on trailing peeps!!

 

Sounds like a pretty amazing experience. That is pretty far out for catching parts of a trail. Great teamwork.

I had my cell phone survive being fully immersed in the Catawba River in Rock Hill SC only to be killed by blackwater in the gum swamp in Aiken SC. Yeah. My phone has a seidio obex waterproof case (they did not have life proof for my model).

 

Hineni,Just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading this thread though I don't do SAR myself.Living vicariously through you guys I guess
Your above experiences had me both laughing and shivering as I pictured your adventures.Looking forward to more!

 

Thanks Nancy.. Yes, it was well out of the range of time I thought she could get odor.. I think the moisture, whilst 'washed' the scent downhill, also kept it alive and 'active' for her... Definitely was proud (and shocked) of her... I was very upfront with the statistics of the aging and success... But prayer, weather and an awesome dog worked well

I think the sandy grainy water of the creek is what killed my phone too.. Took it a day before it died, but then it died a sad death... I'm tempted to put my phone in a baggie even with the life proof case on, lol! Don't want it happening again!

How is your ankle doing? Amazing how long it takes to get some body parts back to a 'safe' functioning level..