[David Winners]

Sigh. If Yellowstone goes boom and the survivors are plummeted into an agrarian culture, I am not going to make it. But I am not going to lose sleep over it either.

The vast majority of people couldn't survive if they had to provide for themselves and their families. Those in large metropolitan areas would run out of resources very quickly and the rural lands adjoining those metropolitan areas would be stripped bare within days.

The Great Depression had a profound effect on my grandfather, who had to help provide for the table so the family could survive. He taught his sons and grandchildren how to hunt and process game.

He also taught us to be resourceful. You don't need to know how to can vegetables because you can have a book in your pantry in case you need that knowledge. You can have a book that identifies edible plants in your area that you can forage. You can have a book that shows how to set up a water filtration system with a couple barrels.

You may not ever need these skills. If they don't fit into your current lifestyle there is no need to spend time on things you won't remember. Having that knowledge at hand may make a big difference someday.

The need to survive, in a primal way, has not been necessary in this country for a while. We are successful and that means we can concentrate on less important things than food, water and shelter.

We humans have been successful as a species because we are problem solvers. Those that found solutions to life and death problems passed their genes onto the next generation. Just like a bored GSD, we tend to create problems for us to solve when problems don't really exist. Things that are rather trivial in the grand scheme of things become grandiose in the need to fulfill our desire to problem solve.

To address your chicken dilemma, the altruism of a society is directly connected to the ability of that society to provide necessary resources to the general population. If you are hungry, it becomes much easier for you to justify the necessity of taking a life. That resource looks much more like dinner than it looks like a friend.

I'll take my tin foil hat off now

Back to poop bags...

 

[car2ner]

1: Tru Earth laundry strips are brilliant, just saying. There is a version in the U.S. called Earth Breeze.
2: We had an EV, the Nissan Leaf, and enjoyed that car. We had a charger installed in our garage. It only raised our power bill by 50 bucks a month. And less maintenance, no oil changes for instance. But when we sold the house and tired to give the car to family members, none of them had a way to charge it at home. We got a good price selling it to a used car dealer and now drive our Ram truck.
3: Just watched a report from an area around Houston that has dioxin in the soil and clusters of cancers. Homes are boarded up and no one will buy them. How does a neighborhood recover from that, with toxic soil, once cozy but worthless houses, and serious health issues?
4: And I still think that anyone who wants to push renewable energy or personal conservation needs to spend a week or two dry camping in an RV with a battery and solar panel. People who boondock / dry camp, have to manage everything, Power, Water, Sewage, Storage of things, Dealing with weather, dealing with little food storage. We all get spoiled with how easy things are with indoor plumbing and power at the flip of a switch and typically more than enough space to store things we don't really need.
5: yesterday was Scoop the Poop day (yes, it is really an observance day in the U.S.). The article I read suggested disposing poop in the toilet. I was thinking , that can't be right. After some looking around online it seems the real answer is "it depends"
6: If you ever get a copy of the original Joy of Cooking cookbook, it had directions on how to clean and prepare game and farm animals.

 

[misfitz616]

Selzer, a city person was visiting a farm that belonged to a relative. She asked my cousin if they named their pigs. He replied "We call them Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner." 🤣

My dad grew up on a farm and they raised a calf each year for meat. He told me the calves were named T-bone I, T-bone II, etc.

 

[Magwart]

1: Tru Earth laundry strips are brilliant, just saying. There is a version in the U.S. called Earth Breeze.

Ecos has a version of these strips/sheets that is much more economical (it was introduced as EcosNext but now is just Ecos Laundry Detergent Sheets) -- Costco sells it in 192-sheet packages. Sometimes they have the unscented version too, but right now just the natural lavender/vanilla version: https://www.costco.com/ecos-he-laundry-detergent-sheets,-lavender-vanilla,-192-loads,-192-sheets.product.4000174737.html

They work in my front-loading HE machine with cold water -- unlike laundry powder.j

Out West, my dad built his plumbing system to dump certain benign gray-water (like the shower) out onto his garden and fruit trees. He has a flexible pipe that he can move around to direct the water. It was probably illegal when he built it 30 years ago, but he's up in the high desert mountains where nobody noticed. Once in a while neighbors would comment with wonder on how happy his hollyhocks were or how many apples he had on his trees. More areas are starting to wake up to the idea that using graywater for landscaping in dry areas makes tons of sense.

 

[selzer]

I can fish, and I can shoot with bow or gun, so I could probably survive by hunting and fishing if I had to. I have Amish living across the street, and I could probably ask them for pointers on the gardening. My dad owns 15 acres of woodland that is where I would hunt. I could fish from the river out back of my place. I have a bicycle that can easily get me into town and to the nearest city if gas became an issue. Dog food would probably be a problem. If I could get a cart, it is 12-14 miles to where I buy it, but maybe they would run out too. Feeding my dogs out of fish from the river or hunting sound tough. this is a morbid topic, and I need to stay up-beat today.

 

[WNGD]

I can hunt, I can fish, I can snare. I can process moose, deer, rabbit, fish
I have a buddy that does a two week trip every year to Alaska just to live out of a tent on the land and believe me it's the opposite of the life he generally leads (father is what I'd politely call wealthy and he does very well for himself independent of that). Another buddy I work with that remote camps every Summer with nothing but a knife and basic tools, has taken some dried food for emergencies. Sometimes, it's how you feel alive, get closer to dead.

On the farm, slaughtering of beef cattle (always kept two), chickens, ostrich, always knew where meat/eggs came from. We've become super soft, kids don't know how to change a tire or make dinner but know all the cheats on Fortnite.

 

[David Winners]

There will be a bunch of people hunting and fishing and foraging. I have enough Nutrient Survival for 2 adults for a year stashed around.

Yes, I do have several tin foil hats.

About poop bags:

The most responsible thing to do is to either turn it in to be composted if your locale has a high temp compost recycle service. If that is not an option, you should flush it. Dog waste will break down in a septic or public sewage treatment facility just like our poop does. You could use a container that is easy to carry and a scooper, or wash and reuse plastic bags.

 

[selzer]

There will be a bunch of people hunting and fishing and foraging. I have enough Nutrient Survival for 2 adults for a year stashed around.

Yes, I do have several tin foil hats.

About poop bags:

The most responsible thing to do is to either turn it in to be composted if your locale has a high temp compost recycle service. If that is not an option, you should flush it. Dog waste will break down in a septic or public sewage treatment facility just like our poop does. You could use a container that is easy to carry and a scooper, or wash and reuse plastic bags.

I have an aeration tank, not a septic tank, which means I have aerobic bugs rather than septic bugs in my tank to break things down. No way would I flush plastic down there. My pump is dead right now, on the list of things that have to be done after the house is paid off in June. But even without the pump pumping air into it, probably killing off my bugs. I wouldn't put plastic in there.

The best thing to do with my dogs' poo is to throw it over the edge of the ravine, onto my own property. But my neighbors had a hissy about that and called the health department and because there is a river, which has bugs in it that would manage it just fine according to my mom who has water and sewer licenses, they (the health department) agreed that I shouldn't let it go over the edge. However, I can dump it anywhere on my property as long as it is 100' from a well. I started putting it along the outside of my property fence toward the miserable neighbor's property, and they called the health department again. It was actually a pile of woodchips, straw, soil, and a small amount poop that was fermenting for 2 years that I was spreading there. But the health department came out again, and said it was perfectly fine what I was doing. Since then, to keep peace, I've been bagging it in extra-strong 4 mill contractor bags and putting it in the garbage. To the landfill it goes. It was causing no problem with the environment, and now it is. Too bad.

 

[Olivia42]

LOL, in the US, we can't keep the electric grid going in CA without electric vehicles. Rolling blackouts. What happens when we start charging autos? In Ohio, we still make electricity with coal. Yep. That's right, electric cars which require the mining of worse crap than coal will require more coal to use. And the vehicles, because of the batteries are so much heavier than gas powered engines, that it will use more energy. Electric, gas, whatever, Energy we not make, we convert, from potential to kinetic. We are not the energy makers. We do not make energy. We use it. We put it in forms that we can use. If you make cars that are 2x the mg of the current vehicles, they will use 2x the E. It's all physics.

Living where it's cold, no way will I ever buy an electric car. I don't want to be stuck in a traffic jam on an hour-drive home from work in a blizzard while my car is losing power. And if it does, then some deisel truck, carrying a gas generator will have to come and charge my vehicle. I know that if your little regular car battery is drained down and is left to freeze it don't work no more. What about these car batteries that cost as much as the vehicle. Wonder what happens to them. What happens if you come home from work and want to charge your car so you can go to work tomorrow, and the power goes out because of a rolling black out or something. Is that going to be a thing? Forget it. Maybe for a little country the size of one of our states, where folks work close to home, and maybe have train service to most work locations that might work. Might. We don't have that here. Here we don't have train service, bus service, taxi service. You live where I do, then you either have a gas-powered vehicle, or a horse and buggy.

The best comment about electric cars I have read in a long time. And soo true

 

[Olivia42]

Love that graph

To quote someone - so who do we blame for the last ice age?

Here's a graph of global temperature change. Yes, this is a cartoon, but the author of the cartoon is very well educated, and knows what he's talking about. He did considerable research before posting this. And sometime humor gets through to people when throwing facts at them doesn't! (I used to teach high school biology, before becoming a nurse...)

You will need to click on the image to enlarge it:

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/earth_temperature_timeline.png?fbclid=IwAR1YADuva_qZN7PavLCSQCd9Fn02itDHP0i6i0J1z6IShfG5PHmKsCchgAg

Love that graph

 

[Sunsilver]

When I had the kennel, getting rid of the poop was a problem. The garbage contractors refused to pick it up, and I was told I'd have to haul it to the dump, and pay for it by the pound. I really hated doing that, especially in the winter, when the poop was at least 50% mixed with ice and snow.

I noticed the previous owner had been dumping poop on a small berm up against the south facing fence, so when winter came, I started doing that. By the time the snow melted, the poop had dried out, and was dry, crumbly and odor-free. I continued to used this method for the rest of the time I owned the kennel. In summer, I'd mix it with organic matter like woodchips, sawdust, grass clippings or leaves. There was never a problem with odour or flies, as long as I remembered to keep the lids on the poop buckets during the summer, and dump them frequently.

I sometimes wondered if mixing in organic matter would make it less acid and safe to use as compost. However, I was to busy running the kennel to ever plant a veggie garden, and I didn't want to try it on the front flower beds, in case there was a problem.

 

[selzer]

When I had the kennel, getting rid of the poop was a problem. The garbage contractors refused to pick it up, and I was told I'd have to haul it to the dump, and pay for it by the pound. I really hated doing that, especially in the winter, when the poop was at least 50% mixed with ice and snow.

I noticed the previous owner had been dumping poop on a small berm up against the south facing fence, so when winter came, I started doing that. By the time the snow melted, the poop had dried out, and was dry, crumbly and odor-free. I continued to used this method for the rest of the time I owned the kennel. In summer, I'd mix it with organic matter like woodchips or sawdust. There was never a problem with odour or flies!

I sometimes wondered if mixing in organic matter would make it less acid and safe to use as compost. However, I was to busy running the kennel to ever plant a veggie garden, and I didn't want to try it on the front flower beds, in case there was a problem.

Yep, winter pick up sucks. I made a mountain and a hill and at the end of the winter, I bagged it up. I then dragged wheel barrowed the bags and put them around a dead maple tree, to be added to my trash can 4 per week. (The health dept. did tell me that was the ideal, so that was what I was doing.) I was getting there, when my brother asked me if I was getting a dupster this year, he'd go halfers with me. (Is that a real word?) Anyway, I got the dumpster and put them in there. Right now it is 1-2 bags per week all winter this year and so I do not have a mountain or a hill or a 2-year compost going. There is a spot that has been there for about four years, but it isn't worth messing with.

While I have been ill, cleaning the kennels has been impossible. But we had very little rain during the first 3 weeks, and since I had already had 3 dogs over my friend's for a week before she took the other two while I was in the hospital, a lot less poop happened. When I went to clean it all, it was dry and light, mostly dehydrated and easy to pick up. All the kennels area were so large that it really wasn't bad. I cleaned Karma and Vera's area and put down cedar chips. So that was really good. The others in the back, well Uzi always liked to poop in one corner, so she only had a pile in the back double kennel, and the front two kennel areas she has available had no poop at all. Cujo and Hepsi had more -- a little smaller in area and two dogs in stead of one. Bears was easy. One bag for the six of them. Now I have my dogs back. And it rained heavy this past week. And I had surgery today. Sigh, if it isn't one thing it is another.

 

[banzai555]

When I had the kennel, getting rid of the poop was a problem. The garbage contractors refused to pick it up, and I was told I'd have to haul it to the dump, and pay for it by the pound. I really hated doing that, especially in the winter, when the poop was at least 50% mixed with ice and snow.

I noticed the previous owner had been dumping poop on a small berm up against the south facing fence, so when winter came, I started doing that. By the time the snow melted, the poop had dried out, and was dry, crumbly and odor-free. I continued to used this method for the rest of the time I owned the kennel. In summer, I'd mix it with organic matter like woodchips, sawdust, grass clippings or leaves. There was never a problem with odour or flies, as long as I remembered to keep the lids on the poop buckets during the summer, and dump them frequently.

I sometimes wondered if mixing in organic matter would make it less acid and safe to use as compost. However, I was to busy running the kennel to ever plant a veggie garden, and I didn't want to try it on the front flower beds, in case there was a problem.

Sooooooooo tangent but we had to euthanize a bighorn sheep 2 summers ago because it was mingling with domestic sheep (it's a thing, they can bring pneumonia pathogens picked up from domestics back to the wild herds and it kills alllll of them) and I couldn't get the head to HQ quickly enough (where they get auctioned off) so I buried it in my yard. I'd heard of people doing that to clean skulls, and they dig the heads up later and they're nice and clean, picked clean by bugs and bacteria and stuff.

Anyway so I finally dug it up again a couple weeks ago. Other than the horns, which I'd left poking out of the ground so I could find it again, the entire skull had disintegrated. Maybe my soil needs a little organic matter to make it less acidic...

Anyway. I love the quote about everyone doing little things to add up to a big difference. That's kinda the way I see it. And ever since I learned that airline travel is like...the single greatest source of carbon emissions, I haven't flown. I hate flying anyway. I'm planning on driving across the country later this summer (with Willow!) to visit family, in my new hybrid car, woohoo! Even though they get better gas mileage in the city vs highway, the highway mileage is still impressive (35 mpg).

I think hybrid technology has improved greatly over the years. I think the newer ones actually convert gas to electricity which powers the drivetrain, and that's more efficient?? Not totally sure about that but it's not exactly like the operation of the vehicle is constantly switching between gas and electric. It's like the gas, along with braking, is just constantly charging the battery. I would have loved a plug-in hybrid but I don't have the infrastructure for it and couldn't afford to install it. And YEAH they are $$$$! I hope my regular hybrid lasts the 20 years I'm hoping to get out of it.

Last thing I wanted to say...my slow metabolism has always been the bane of my existence; I've always carried a few extra pounds even though I exercise a ton and only eat about 1200 calories per day (I measured my metabolism once and that's what it is, doesn't that SUCK??) ...BUT...if Yellowstone explodes, I require fewer calories to live, so imma outlive everybody!

 

[Zeppy]

Sooooooooo tangent but we had to euthanize a bighorn sheep 2 summers ago because it was mingling with domestic sheep (it's a thing, they can bring pneumonia pathogens picked up from domestics back to the wild herds and it kills alllll of them) and I couldn't get the head to HQ quickly enough (where they get auctioned off) so I buried it in my yard. I'd heard of people doing that to clean skulls, and they dig the heads up later and they're nice and clean, picked clean by bugs and bacteria and stuff.

Anyway so I finally dug it up again a couple weeks ago. Other than the horns, which I'd left poking out of the ground so I could find it again, the entire skull had disintegrated. Maybe my soil needs a little organic matter to make it less acidic...

Anyway. I love the quote about everyone doing little things to add up to a big difference. That's kinda the way I see it. And ever since I learned that airline travel is like...the single greatest source of carbon emissions, I haven't flown. I hate flying anyway. I'm planning on driving across the country later this summer (with Willow!) to visit family, in my new hybrid car, woohoo! Even though they get better gas mileage in the city vs highway, the highway mileage is still impressive (35 mpg).

I think hybrid technology has improved greatly over the years. I think the newer ones actually convert gas to electricity which powers the drivetrain, and that's more efficient?? Not totally sure about that but it's not exactly like the operation of the vehicle is constantly switching between gas and electric. It's like the gas, along with braking, is just constantly charging the battery. I would have loved a plug-in hybrid but I don't have the infrastructure for it and couldn't afford to install it. And YEAH they are $$$$! I hope my regular hybrid lasts the 20 years I'm hoping to get out of it.

Last thing I wanted to say...my slow metabolism has always been the bane of my existence; I've always carried a few extra pounds even though I exercise a ton and only eat about 1200 calories per day (I measured my metabolism once and that's what it is, doesn't that SUCK??) ...BUT...if Yellowstone explodes, I require fewer calories to live, so imma outlive everybody!

1200 calories a day?! Girl, I would cease to exist. Lol

 

[dogma13]

We'll all get in trouble soon if we keep talking about governments and regulations😳
My only thought about the entire matter is we need this planet to function somewhat properly because it's our home.I like to do what I can towards it's up keep.

 

[selzer]

We'll all get in trouble soon if we keep talking about governments and regulations😳
My only thought about the entire matter is we need this planet to function somewhat properly because it's our home.I like to do what I can towards it's up keep.

Governments might make some changes that effect climate, like trying to plant trees on the prairies. And to regulate the methods of widespread farming to prevent the conditions that caused the dust bowl during the great depression. But I don't think you and me, ourselves, can spend our lives scrimping and saving and sacrificing and make any difference whatsoever.

Once upon a time, I read a book called, Lad, a Dog. It was a fairy tale (novel). But it spoke of a time in history, and that time included WWI or WWII, I don't remember which. But someone decided that it was patriotic to stop having dogs, to euthanize dogs to save meat for soldiers. And people did it. And those that did it shamed those who wouldn't. I had surgery today and am on narcotics so I'm not sure what my point is. I just don't think that owning dogs, poop bags or no poop bags, is ruining the earth. There are folks that seem to think that we should entertain this idea though. That we should reduce our dogs' carbon footprint. Shaming folks for owning dogs is only a few steps behind.

 

[Dunkirk]

Governments might make some changes that effect climate, like trying to plant trees on the prairies. And to regulate the methods of widespread farming to prevent the conditions that caused the dust bowl during the great depression. But I don't think you and me, ourselves, can spend our lives scrimping and saving and sacrificing and make any difference whatsoever.

Once upon a time, I read a book called, Lad, a Dog. It was a fairy tale (novel). But it spoke of a time in history, and that time included WWI or WWII, I don't remember which. But someone decided that it was patriotic to stop having dogs, to euthanize dogs to save meat for soldiers. And people did it. And those that did it shamed those who wouldn't. I had surgery today and am on narcotics so I'm not sure what my point is. I just don't think that owning dogs, poop bags or no poop bags, is ruining the earth. There are folks that seem to think that we should entertain this idea though. That we should reduce our dogs' carbon footprint. Shaming folks for owning dogs is only a few steps behind.

You can download Lad a Dog for free to your kindle.

Amazon.com: Lad: A Dog eBook : Terhune, Albert Payson: Books

Amazon.com: Lad: A Dog eBook : Terhune, Albert Payson: Books

www.amazon.com

 

[Sunsilver]

I read (and LOVED) all the Terhune books as a kid!

I don't think people are going to be convinced they have to stop owning pets due to their carbon footprint, BUT the current insane cost of veterinary treatment, which is always continually increasing may make it impossible for all but the wealthy. :'(

 

[Sunsilver]

We'll all get in trouble soon if we keep talking about governments and regulations😳
My only thought about the entire matter is we need this planet to function somewhat properly because it's our home.I like to do what I can towards it's up keep.

Dogma, I'm finding it really cool that although we all have different views in this thread, so far everyone is being polite and respectful!

And I'm really enjoying it! Hope that doesn't change...

 

[dogma13]

you and me, ourselves, can spend our lives scrimping and saving and sacrificing and make any difference whatsoever.

You're free to do as you wish.I was speaking for myself. It feels right to me personally to make earth friendly choices when I can. Just my "teaspoons worth".