[pebble41]

In Dobbin's defense I have read that you used to have to buy fuel in metal cans at the pharmacy... that could not have been cheap.

 

[selzer]

In Dobbin's defense I have read that you used to have to buy fuel in metal cans at the pharmacy... that could not have been cheap.

I don't know about the pharmacy, but the metal gas cans I do remember. They lasted. We used them over and over and over and over. They worked. Now we have these horrible plastic gas containers that have awful contraptions to pour with and I always spill the crap all over me and everywhere but in the mower. I wish we could go back to the old fashioned gas can.

 

[Sunsilver]

Ok but the real question is………
Who the heck is naming their horse Dobbin?!
🤣

great pic of your dad and his car!

Thank you, Zeppy!

'Dobbin' was sort of the catch-all name for horses back in the day, like 'Rover' is for dogs.

Selzer, yeah, it was a more agrarian society back then, and of course, my reason for posting that was to show what a huge change it was for people to go from horses to cars, and how not everyone was in favour of the change. No way we could turn back the...er...wheels now! 🤣

Just imagine people who had lived their entire lives with horses trying to switch over. Thousands of healthy horses wound up going for slaughter as they were no longer needed. Buggy makers had to adapt to making cars or go out of business. Horses were often freaked out by these strange new machines, and would spook and bolt. My grandfather was likely killed as the result of a car passing by on the road causing his team of horses to do exactly that. 😥

The transition did not happen overnight, though. Two of my uncles still had horses up until the early 1960's, as they were still the most efficient way of doing certain tasks.

Nor will the change to renewable energy and electric cars happen quickly.

 

[car2ner]

there is a Long Horned Cattle round up going on this weekend. Lots of locals come out to help. Many remember when they still did the work on horseback instead of 4 wheelers.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Back to what we can do - try to be mindful. Watch our own actions.

I'm ancient. My first environmental awareness was reading Racheal Carson's The Silent Spring as part of a special high school enhancement weekend workshop. That was long ago. (but still in my life-time ) Then there was the 70s and increased awareness - ZPG promotion, Diet for a Small Planet etc. Back in the 90s Al Gore's An inconvenient Truth. And here we are....

 

[selzer]

Back to what we can do - try to be mindful. Watch our own actions.

I'm ancient. My first environmental awareness was reading Racheal Carson's The Silent Spring as part of a special high school enhancement weekend workshop. That was long ago. (but still in my life-time ) Then there was the 70s and increased awareness - ZPG promotion, Diet for a Small Planet etc. Back in the 90s Al Gore's An inconvenient Truth. And here we are....

When I was in the fourth grade, 1976 I think, when I was 8, our social studies books showed a family in gas masks walking through some garbage dump like area.

I don't know how old I was when I saw Soilent Green and Logan's Run.

None of it worked. I am just not worried about population growth or humans causing the world's end through pollution. I remember the nuclear war crap too. Not worried about that either. Not saying it can't happen. Just not losing sleep over it.

 

[Sunsilver]

Silent Spring was required reading in university but I also recall reading it in High School. It was a very important book, and I think it was instrumental in getting DDT and a lot of other very harmful pesticides banned. Without the ban, the bald eagle would most likely be extinct now, as well as ospreys and other birds that eat a lot of fish and insects. It would thin their shells to the point the eggs would be crushed when the parents tried to incubate them.

 

[Zeppy]

Silent Spring was required reading in university but I also recall reading it in High School. It was a very important book, and I think it was instrumental in getting DDT and a lot of other very harmful pesticides banned. Without the ban, the bald eagle would most likely be extinct now, as well as ospreys and other birds that eat a lot of fish and insects. It would thin their shells to the point the eggs would be crushed when the parents tried to incubate them.

Not sure if anyone read My Side of the Mountain series, it was also geared toward creating awareness about exposure of DDT impacting the eggs of raptors.

 

[car2ner]

Now we have to watch raptors due from rodentcides. The mice and rats have to be controlled. The most effective way also kills those that eat them. We need more good ratters, less poison.

 

[Sunsilver]

One person who did his best to protect the environment and live lightly on the land was Pete Seeger. He had a 1988 electric Ford Ranger. It had a range of 10 to 20 miles, but that was good enough for his needs. He used it all the time. He would often use it to power the PA system at music events at his home, as well as to power an electric chainsaw he used to cut wood to heat his home. The batteries, regular lead-acid batteries, were kept charged by solar panels he installed on the roof of his barn.

https://renewablereality.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Pete-Seeger-Picks-Solar.pdf

It just shows you what can be done if you are determined to do what you can to help the environment, and don't listen to the naysayers, who will do their best to convince you that renewable energy is totally impractical. (Windmill cancer, anyone?? Remember that? 🤣 )

Of course 10 to 20 miles wouldn't work for everyone, but when I think about it, it would work for most of my trips. I live in a small town that only has a variety store, a post office and a restaurant. But the nearest large town with just about all the things I need is only 12 minutes away by car. And of course, electric vehicles and the batteries that power them have improved a LOT since 1988!

I used to own a hybrid Toyota Highlander. The one thing I didn't like about it was the electric power only worked at very low speeds. At anything over 30 mph, I would be burning gas. I'd like to see the automotive industry improve hybrids, so you could switch from electric to gas once you electric battery runs low. This makes so much sense to me: why aren't they making an effort to do it??

When my hybrid died after 10 years of service, I couldn't afford to replace it with a new one - they were too darn expensive, and used ones were impossible to find... 😥

If there is a human race still here in a hundred years, I think
it will be hundreds of millions of little things that will have saved us. Imagine a big seesaw: one end is on the ground with a basket half-full of rocks on it. The other end is up in the air with a basket one-quarter-full of sand on it. Some of us have teaspoons and are trying to put more sand in the basket. Most people are scoffing at us: “Don’t you see the sand is leaking out as fast as you put it in?” We say, “That’s true, but we’re getting more people with teaspoons all the time.” One of these days, you’ll see that basket so full that the whole seesaw will go zoo-oop in the opposite direction, and people will say, “Gee, how did it happen so suddenly?” Us and all our little teaspoons.

Pete Seeger

 

[WNGD]

One person who did his best to protect the environment and live lightly on the land was Pete Seeger. He had a 1988 electric Ford Ranger. It had a range of 10 to 20 miles, but that was good enough for his needs. He used it all the time. He would often use it to power the PA system at music events at his home, as well as to power an electric chainsaw he used to cut wood to heat his home. The batteries, regular lead-acid batteries, were kept charged by solar panels he installed on the roof of his barn.

https://renewablereality.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Pete-Seeger-Picks-Solar.pdf

It just shows you what can be done if you are determined to do what you can to help the environment, and don't listen to the naysayers, who will do their best to convince you that renewable energy is totally impractical. (Windmill cancer, anyone?? Remember that? 🤣 )

Of course 10 to 20 miles wouldn't work for everyone, but when I think about it, it would work for most of my trips. I live in a small town that only has a variety store, a post office and a restaurant. But the nearest large town with just about all the things I need is only 12 minutes away by car. And of course, electric vehicles and the batteries that power them have improved a LOT since 1988!

I used to own a hybrid Toyota Highlander. The one thing I didn't like about it was the electric power only worked at very low speeds. At anything over 30 mph, I would be burning gas. I'd like to see the automotive industry improve hybrids, so you could switch from electric to gas once you electric battery runs low. This makes so much sense to me: why aren't they making an effort to do it??

When my hybrid died after 10 years of service, I couldn't afford to replace it with a new one - they were too darn expensive, and used ones were impossible to find... 😥

If there is a human race still here in a hundred years, I think
it will be hundreds of millions of little things that will have saved us. Imagine a big seesaw: one end is on the ground with a basket half-full of rocks on it. The other end is up in the air with a basket one-quarter-full of sand on it. Some of us have teaspoons and are trying to put more sand in the basket. Most people are scoffing at us: “Don’t you see the sand is leaking out as fast as you put it in?” We say, “That’s true, but we’re getting more people with teaspoons all the time.” One of these days, you’ll see that basket so full that the whole seesaw will go zoo-oop in the opposite direction, and people will say, “Gee, how did it happen so suddenly?” Us and all our little teaspoons.

Pete Seeger

What you're talking about is a PHEV and they've been around for quite awhile now and end the range anxiety that's been so prevalent in electric only cars.

Explaining Electric & Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles | US EPA

An introduction to the emissions, charging and driving range of electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles.

www.epa.gov

.

My grandmother was born in 1899 (a very cool year to have been born).
I remember speaking to her about the very first car she saw (loud, smelly, amazing), her first time seeing and then being on a plane knowing how impossible it was for somethign so large to fly, the first time they got electricity (what a transformation!), a telephone and talking to a relative she knew was 20 miles away, the first time she saw a TV. Of course she saw the moon landing. What an amazing life.

Yes we now have the internet and cell phones and microwaves (she saw all those too, died at 93) but the only thing I think could compare one day is the ability to physically transport to another location.

 

[Sunsilver]

WNGD, thank you! I wonder why I'm not hearing more about these! Honestly, until just now, I thought the only options were an all electric vehicle, or the sort of hybrid I had with my Highlander, which used gas even with short trips and city driving!

Here's a full list of what's available - arrgh, vehicles are SO expensive now! 😥 And of course, they hybrids are more expensive than gas, though the Canadian government will give you a $2,500 rebate for buying one!

Edit: my current vehicle is a Rav 4. The rebate for a Rav4 Prime is $5,000! Oh, to have deeper pockets...

10 Cheapest Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles (PHEV) in Canada for 2025

Thinking about trading your gas-guzzler in? Here are the 10 cheapest, rebate-eligible plug-in hybrid vehicles that are available in Canada.

www.canadadrives.ca

 

[jarn]

@Sunsilver our wagon is the one way I feel we are most exposed environmentally - but leaving aside money, our building's garage doesn't have electric charging, so if we want a car, it's got to be gas.

But I try. I get TruEarth laundry strips in bulk (no plastic detergent jug), we use bar dish soap for washing dishes/have environmentally-friendly/no packaging dishwasher tabs (come in bulk in a paper bag), our toilet bowl cleaner are tabs that are made by a local company and come in a cardboard box, I use shampoo and conditioner bars, I use shaving cream bars (with a brush and everything!) for the ol' legs and armpits, we get our handsoap in refillable glass containers, instead of buying hand lotion in a container I use lotion bars. I'm vegan, so don't add to the demand for animal agriculture and it's attendant environmental impacts. Don't use products with palm oil where I can tell they have palm (which is in a shocking amount of stuff!). I try. It's not easy though, and in some ways I'm not perfect - not all my cleaning products are great environmentally (I do use bleach based ones for the bathroom, for instance), but I do my best to use them sparingly, I clean mirrors and windows with vinegar, for instance. I don't like buying secondhand (I am suspicious of possible bed bugs - that may be a uniquely Toronto paranoia amongst people I know though), and like I said, we do drive a gas car, but we do try to stretch out the products we do use to make them last, buy local where possible, minimize food waste, we don't use the car regularly, when we commute, it's either subway or biking....

 

[WNGD]

WNGD, thank you! I wonder why I'm not hearing more about these! Honestly, until just now, I thought the only options were an all electric vehicle, or the sort of hybrid I had with my Highlander, which used gas even with short trips and city driving!

Here's a full list of what's available - arrgh, vehicles are SO expensive now! 😥 And of course, they hybrids are more expensive than gas, though the Canadian government will give you a $2,500 rebate for buying one!

Edit: my current vehicle is a Rav 4. The rebate for a Rav4 Prime is $5,000! Oh, to have deeper pockets...

10 Cheapest Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles (PHEV) in Canada for 2025

Thinking about trading your gas-guzzler in? Here are the 10 cheapest, rebate-eligible plug-in hybrid vehicles that are available in Canada.

www.canadadrives.ca

Happy reading
\Top 10 Affordable Plug-In Hybrid Cars (PHEVs) in Canada for 2022

 

[David Winners]

Throughout history, scientists have been really wrong, a lot.

To stay out of modern politics, I'd say miasma theory and thalidomide come to mind as good examples.

If you look back over the last hundred years, the sky has been perpetually falling if we don't do something about our impact on the climate right now.

At some points, there were no polar ice caps, or most of the earth was frozen wasteland, or the oxygen levels were twice what they are now, or the continents were in completely different places.

There is money driving both sides of the argument.

In my home we waste as little as possible. We harvest what we can from the land. We are currently putting in a large garden at the family farm where we stay in the summer. We don't pick up dog waste there as it degrades pretty quickly. We use regular poop bags when we are out and about.

We are also building a coop for free range chickens to keep the bugs down and provide eggs, a compost rig for plant waste and a rain water collection watering system for the garden.

The math doesn't work for electric vehicles unless we can generate more electricity and we are closing electric plants while other countries are building more.

 

[LuvShepherds]

Yes, we can’t forget that each of the implementations of those good (or bad) ideas fuels industries full of people making money off our choices. Also, the industries we may decide don’t deserve to exist, employ a lot of people who have done nothing wrong except do their jobs. We as a society, need to be careful to disrupt as little as possible when pushing for the ideas we are positive are the best ones for everyone. What is good for us may not be for others.

 

[selzer]

Throughout history, scientists have been really wrong, a lot.

To stay out of modern politics, I'd say miasma theory and thalidomide come to mind as good examples.

If you look back over the last hundred years, the sky has been perpetually falling if we don't do something about our impact on the climate right now.

At some points, there were no polar ice caps, or most of the earth was frozen wasteland, or the oxygen levels were twice what they are now, or the continents were in completely different places.

There is money driving both sides of the argument.

In my home we waste as little as possible. We harvest what we can from the land. We are currently putting in a large garden at the family farm where we stay in the summer. We don't pick up dog waste there as it degrades pretty quickly. We use regular poop bags when we are out and about.

We are also building a coop for free range chickens to keep the bugs down and provide eggs, a compost rig for plant waste and a rain water collection watering system for the garden.

The math doesn't work for electric vehicles unless we can generate more electricity and we are closing electric plants while other countries are building more.

You say it so well. Yeah, they've been saying the world was going to end by this date or that date since forever. The date comes and goes and everyone just ignores it.

I want to put in a garden because I love the idea of going outside and picking a few ears of corn and some tomatoes and having dinner off of it. But I have no idea how to can tomatoes and other vegetables, and most of it would probably go to waste, or my family would come and have some fresh veggies during the fall. Working full time, I don't have the time to learn how to do all that and do all that.

I'd like to have chickens, but I don't think I could slaughter them when the time comes. They only lay for a few years, and you have to slaughter the males or they will fight. So you make them into fryers I guess. Anyway, I guess when the layers are old enough to stop laying, then you slaughter and make soup or stew or frickasee out of them, or you can feed them to the dogs. But, I'd go and name them and I don't know if I could eat Thelma-stew. I know where meat comes from, I do. But I don't get to know it's personality before butchering. So I better leave the chickens to the chicken manufacturers and egg manufacturers. I'd love to have a cow and raise a steer for meat, on paper. But I'd name them. And even if I name the boy T-bone or Rib-eye, I don't think I could eat them. And I LOVE steak.

Sigh. If Yellowstone goes boom and the survivors are plummeted into an agrarian culture, I am not going to make it. But I am not going to lose sleep over it either.

 

[Sunsilver]

Selzer, a city person was visiting a farm that belonged to a relative. She asked my cousin if they named their pigs. He replied "We call them Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner." 🤣

Not sure how I'd manage if I had to slaughter my own animals, even though I've worked on farms. Since I've dissected quite a few animals, I think I'd be fine with the butchering, but actually killing something I'd raised...

When we went to visit my father's mother on the farm, we'd always have to walk past the chopping block on the way to the door. There were always a couple of severed hens' heads lying beside it. Keeping the hens was my grandmother's responsibility. She sold the eggs and gutted, plucked and sold the carcasses. She kept the money for herself in a separate account. She also had her kitchen garden, with all the produce she grew and used to feed the family. Anything not needed by the family was sold at the farmer's market. The garden was nearly an acre in size. 😳

When my grandfather died very unexpectedly and the farm had to be sold because none of his children felt they could manage the mortgage, my grandmother's money was the only legacy there was to be divided amongst her ten children. 😥

 

[selzer]

Selzer, a city person was visiting a farm that belonged to a relative. She asked my cousin if they named their pigs. He replied "We call them Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner." 🤣

Not sure how I'd manage if I had to slaughter my own animals, even though I've worked on farms. Since I've dissected quite a few animals, I think I'd be fine with the butchering, but actually killing something I'd raised...

When we went to visit my father's mother on the farm, we'd always have to walk past the chopping block on the way to the door. There were always a couple of severed hens' heads lying beside it. Keeping the hens was my grandmother's responsibility. She sold the eggs and gutted, plucked and sold the carcasses. She kept the money for herself in a separate account. She also had her kitchen garden, with all the produce she grew and used to feed the family. Anything not needed by the family was sold at the farmer's market. The garden was nearly an acre in size. 😳

When my grandfather died very unexpectedly and the farm had to be sold because none of his children felt they could manage the mortgage, my grandmother's money was the only legacy there was to be divided amongst her ten children. 😥

I don't know how Canada does tax on estates, but the US seems to be particularly hard on farmers, partly because they are a special category, where family often works together to make the farms work, and usually farms are running on the edge anyway. If the farm, acreage, house, equipment/assets are added up and then taxed it makes the survivors unable to continue with the farm. If they sell acreage, that may make the farm less capable of providing for those working the farm. I don't know what the answer is, but if the progeny are willing to continue to farm a piece of property, the tax after the death of the farmer should not make that impossible for them.

 

[Jenny720]

I think it took about 50 years to completely phase out horses to horsepower. So so many jobs lost but new ones created. Change is always inevitable. Many countries successfully use a large percent of electric railroads or their goals are to use all electric railroads and cars. It’s being down around the world. They are working on electric small planes and cruise ships. Change is real hard, real slow and imperfect but often for the better. It is inevitable, the USA the world leader will feel the growing pressure of the majority of the world and will need to flow and grow with the rest. In a 100 -200 years years transportation systems just will not be the same. People need to watch over the environment there will be always some type of balance needed. Everyone doing what they can and just being aware is a start. What is allowed to be dumped into our water ways is disturbing and the growing consequences are hard to ignore. Growing up we had issues with the local dry cleaners and the chemicals they were dumping into the ground contaminated the entire well system in the area and the the water was deemed unsafe to wash in or drink. The neighborhood was given boxes of gallon water weekly until the switch in the neighborhood from well to city water- costing millions of dollars and making people sick because of what the dry cleaner business owner were doing. My mom was the one that started the entire investigation getting her water tested not everyone’s water smelled of rotten eggs but was found unsafe to drink. There are cancer specialists offices popping up all over the island just as much like 7/11’s and Dunkin Doughnuts(popular coffee shops). I have never seen anything like it.