[banzai555]

Sooooooo, what I would have to say about this would get me banned also! Seems the more educated people are, the less common sense they have

Is that a dig at me for saying I'm a professional biologist, thereby educated, thereby have little common sense? Gee, thanks.

I'm not sure how this thread has survived for this long. Seems to me to be one of those things not worth getting into online fights over, because none of us is going to convince anyone else about anything.

 

[car2ner]

all I know that there are no easy answers. What looks like an improvement creates new issues. I heard podcast that reminded people that at one time London had a huge problem with Horse dung. The automobile solved that problem but created its own. Now people want to go electric (and we had an EV, great little car, but no longer the best choice for us) but do we even have enough raw materials to meet the demand? 75% of our Lithium comes from China! I've heard that we would run out of even common ores, like copper.
Our beaches, here, ban glass containers. I understand why, but when I see all the plastic washed up on shore, I wish they were glass instead, that break down to harmless bits over time. Anyone who can solve the problem without creating another in exchange could be rich!

 

[banzai555]

all I know that there are no easy answers. What looks like an improvement creates new issues. I heard podcast that reminded people that at one time London had a huge problem with Horse dung. The automobile solved that problem but created its own. Now people want to go electric (and we had an EV, great little car, but no longer the best choice for us) but do we even have enough raw materials to meet the demand? 75% of our Lithium comes from China! I've heard that we would run out of even common ores, like copper.
Our beaches, here, ban glass containers. I understand why, but when I see all the plastic washed up on shore, I wish they were glass instead, that break down to harmless bits over time. Anyone who can solve the problem without creating another in exchange could be rich!

This is a good point, and one I thought about bringing up. Apparently some company recently found a huge deposit of rare earth minerals (the stuff used for lithium batteries and other renewable energy infrastructure) here in my little part of Montana, in the far upper end of our primary watershed, really pristine, beautiful place with lots of wildlife. Evidently it's one of the largest, purest deposits in the whole country. So there's of course huge interest in extracting it to reduce our dependence on China--a process which will produce mountains of toxic waste dangerously close to primary source of water for 50,000 Montana residents, and which feeds into the Columbia River Basin.

So yeah, definitely not a perfect solution. I'm still hopeful our species is smart enough to come up with alternatives.

Incidentally, I just spent an hour looking for a herd of elk I used to very reliably find in a particular area around my town. Over the years their numbers have dwindled and now I can't find them at all. Why? Because their habitat has been almost entirely converted to neighborhoods. The elk are gone. Sure, they're not an endangered species or anything, but they're getting squeezed into smaller and smaller spaces almost daily. I see the impact of our species every day. It kills me.

 

[car2ner]

population is a tough nut to crack. I'm one of those people who would never want to live in a large city. I don't even visit them anymore unless I have to. But that means like minded folks are going to add to sprawl.
on another note

The Great Pacific Garbage Patch is a 'raft of life' for animals in the open ocean

Animals displaced hundreds of miles from shore are living on the pieces of plastic that float in the Pacific Ocean.

www.popsci.com

 

[WNGD]

Some people certainly think that biodegradable poop bags are the answer and must magically disappear in hours since .... they throw them off the path into the long grass or woods.

We have blue box recycling for paper, cans, bottles and plastic as well as green bins for household organics. Even trying to buy smartly, we have a bag of plastic for recycling weekly, X number of bottles and cans but the green bin is easily twice as much as the actual garbage, that our entire family could put out only every 3-4 weeks.

Almost all of our grocery stores have banned plastic bags in favour of reusable plastic or mesh. Predictably, they are making them cheaper and cheaper so that they last far less than the math they use to defend them. And you still use the same amount of plastic bags for garbage except you new have to buy them.

Our virtue signalling government banned the plastic straws that the average family might use 0 of a week (not talking McDonalds etc) but allow single use plastic water bottles that often retail 24/$1.99 and fill entire blue boxes weekly. Coke and Pepsi said no!

 

[Cassidy's Mom]

Our dogs have always done the majority of their pooping at home in the dog run. We use a pooper scooper and when the small bin is full, (with one dog that's maybe 3 or 4 poops) it's emptied into saved produce or Doordash bags and put in the trash.

I have roll of poop bags with me when I take Cava on hikes, those get tossed into garbage cans at the park, the same when we're out of town for tournaments. We never use them at home.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Ok so I guess I have no common sense left by now....

Bottom line I think is that we need to use less. Radical idea, eh? I try to make any trip to town multi duty. Feed bags get repurposed as trash bags or lawn waste bags. The purchased bags get reused several times - usually serve to deliver grass clippings to my neighbor's chickens. One quandry with animal feed is that bailing twine is now plastic. Unfortunately on one count, Osprey like it for their nests. It shouldn't be left available because chicks get tangled in it and trangle. So I have a great collection of plastic twine that I WILL do something with (there is a weaving technique I have in mind.)

My lawn is a fire-break, necessary because of where I live. It does use water. Maybe I have compensated for that by cutting down a lot of juniper trees. (Junipers suck water. If it is available, a juniper will use 40 gallons a day.) Fire retardent construction materials are a quandry because they are not going to decompose for a good long while. I tried to get wood windows for my new shed but they weren't available so I went with plastic. The company would have replaced them with wood ones at no charge once the wood became available but that would not have cut down on plastic.

I think it was something like 10 years ago that I bought a pair of jeans at a retail store that wasn't a junk store. What others toss out is amazing because I end up dressing quite OK on junk store clothes. Whoa, I'll stop my rant on waste/landfills and consumerism. Give y'all a break.

 

[banzai555]

Some people certainly think that biodegradable poop bags are the answer and must magically disappear in hours since .... they throw them off the path into the long grass or woods.

Yep. The people who believe in the Poop Fairy.

 

[middleofnowhere]

And let me add a thank you to the person who spoke about coal. I worked in SW Wyoming for several years. UP Coal Mines. Incredible history, lasting effects, black lung for miners, sink holes --- extractive industries in general --- OK what is encouraging about this discussion is that while we have offered no solutions, many of us are on-board with the issue.

 

[WNGD]

Some people certainly think that biodegradable poop bags are the answer and must magically disappear in hours since .... they throw them off the path into the long grass or woods.

We have blue box recycling for paper, cans, bottles and plastic as well as green bins for household organics. Even trying to buy smartly, we have a bag of plastic for recycling weekly, X number of bottles and cans but the green bin is easily twice as much as the actual garbage, that our entire family could put out only every 3-4 weeks.

Almost all of our grocery stores have banned plastic bags in favour of reusable plastic or mesh. Predictably, they are making them cheaper and cheaper so that they last far less than the math they use to defend them. And you still use the same amount of plastic bags for garbage except you new have to buy them.

Our virtue signalling government banned the plastic straws that the average family might use 0 of a week (not talking McDonalds etc) but allow single use plastic water bottles that often retail 24/$1.99 and fill entire blue boxes weekly. Coke and Pepsi said no!

Now I have a Walmart ad for single use water bottles running to the right >>>>>>

 

[Zeppy]

Now I have a Walmart ad for single use water bottles running to the right >>>>>>

They’re listening 👀

 

[Sunsilver]

Our virtue signalling government banned the plastic straws that the average family might use 0 of a week (not talking McDonalds etc) but allow single use plastic water bottles that often retail 24/$1.99 and fill entire blue boxes weekly. Coke and Pepsi said no!

Ridiculous, isn't it??

I think drinking bottled water is the STUPIDEST waste of money to come along in a long while. When I moved to my current location, after drinking well water for many years, I couldn't stand the smell of chlorine in the water. So, I bought a water cooler that takes a 10 gallon bottle. I keep it stocked with reverse osmosis filtered water, which has pretty much zero chemicals in it. Costs me 98 cents at the local Home Hardware for 10 gallons. And it's the same stuff Coca-Cola Co. sells under the brand name Dasani for 2 bucks a bottle! 😯

When I'm on the road, and have to buy bottled water because i forgot to bring any with me, I save the bottles and refill them from my cooler! Win-win situation... 😁

Re: electric cars and renewable energy - if you read my previous posts, you will know that Norway uses 98% renewable energy, Look at where THEY are on the map. Then, try to convince me this won't work in the U.S. because some states are too far north...

Yes, there WILL be bugs to work out and the solution won't be perfect. But we've gone through similar things in the past - e.g. the transition from candles and coal oil to electric power in our homes, and, of course, the transition from horses and buggies to the automobile. All eras had their problems - fires were a HUGE problem when people lit their homes with candles and oil lanterns, and heated with wood, horse poop was a HUGE problem when that was the main mode of transport.

There will be new challenges to face and we WILL find solutions to them. They won't be perfect, of course. And the oil and gas industries WILL push back. There's a meme going around about the terrible environmental damage caused by lithium mining. It's 90% bull****, folks!

 

[Sunsilver]

To quote someone - so who do we blame for the last ice age?

Here's a graph of global temperature change. Yes, this is a cartoon, but the author of the cartoon is very well educated, and knows what he's talking about. He did considerable research before posting this. And sometime humor gets through to people when throwing facts at them doesn't! (I used to teach high school biology, before becoming a nurse...)

You will need to click on the image to enlarge it:

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/earth_temperature_timeline.png?fbclid=IwAR1YADuva_qZN7PavLCSQCd9Fn02itDHP0i6i0J1z6IShfG5PHmKsCchgAg

 

[selzer]

Ridiculous, isn't it??

I think drinking bottled water is the STUPIDEST waste of money to come along in a long while. When I moved to my current location, after drinking well water for many years, I couldn't stand the smell of chlorine in the water. So, I bought a water cooler that takes a 10 gallon bottle. I keep it stocked with reverse osmosis filtered water, which has pretty much zero chemicals in it. Costs me 98 cents at the local Home Hardware for 10 gallons. And it's the same stuff Coca-Cola Co. sells under the brand name Dasani for 2 bucks a bottle! 😯

When I'm on the road, and have to buy bottled water because i forgot to bring any with me, I save the bottles and refill them from my cooler! Win-win situation... 😁

Re: electric cars and renewable energy - if you read my previous posts, you will know that Norway uses 98% renewable energy, Look at where THEY are on the map. Then, try to convince me this won't work in the U.S. because some states are too far north...

Yes, there WILL be bugs to work out and the solution won't be perfect. But we've gone through similar things in the past - e.g. the transition from candles and coal oil to electric power in our homes, and, of course, the transition from horses and buggies to the automobile. All eras had their problems - fires were a HUGE problem when people lit their homes with candles and oil lanterns, and heated with wood, horse poop was a HUGE problem when that was the main mode of transport.

There will be new challenges to face and we WILL find solutions to them. They won't be perfect, of course. And the oil and gas industries WILL push back. There's a meme going around about the terrible environmental damage caused by lithium mining. It's 90% bull****, folks!

Oslo
Oslo experiences warm summers and cold winters, but due to the oceanic influence, winters are warmer than you might expect. The city receives a significant amount of rainfall throughout the year with an average of 30 inches. January is typically the coldest month, with three out of four days recording temperatures below freezing.

This isn't Ohio temperatures. We can have -27 degrees F. We can have -10 for days in a row. And we can reach up over 100 degrees in the summer. Does that matter? Yes, because air conditioning for old folks is essential, and heat comes from gas, oil, wood, propane, and electricity -- always electricity is the most expensive. We can have whole months where we don't get above freezing (32 degrees F). It's a lot different. You can look at it on a map, but you can't say what the temps are. And Oslo is inland where winters are colder, but the ocean has a big effect. If you look at the US. Long Island is not much south of Ohio, but because of the ocean, it rarely snows there. Where a few miles in the north west of the state, Buffalo gets more snow than Ohio, poor chaps. LOL.

I bet Norway gave up their firearms too -- ain't going to happen in the US. In someways, we are just different. And I like that about us.

 

[LuvShepherds]

Please let’s not get political in either direction in this thread or it will be closed. There is a lot of manipulation going on and I’m not sure what is true anymore. That said, I do the best I can to use as little as possible for many reasons, including keeping my own costs down. I can’t worry about what any of you are or aren’t doing. It takes enough energy to take care of myself, my dogs and my family. We have enough thrown at us every day that we don’t need to find ways to disagree on this forum where we should all be supporting each other, whether we agree or not. I ventured out to an all breed dogs board and immediately ran into an anti GSD post because well, you know, our dogs are all so aggressive.

 

[Magwart]

The big irony of single-use plastic water bottles is that the water in them is almost always contaminated with microplastics and pthlates from the bottles themselves. The single-use plastic is soft and warm (deflated and not formed), when water is injected into them on the bottling line. Gross.

Water out of hotel taps can taste yuckie, but I've learned that nearly every hotel gym has a big water cooler or water filtration machine. I travel with big metal Thermoflask tankards from Costco. I refill them in the gym. Dog and I get good-tasting filtered water this way when we travel, without having to buy bottled water.

I had our home tap water at home tested by an independent lab, not long after Flynt happened, in order to find out whether the old pipes in our city were impacting the water coming out of the tap. (A company called "Tap Score" is fantastic for that -- the lab is affiliated with UC Berkeley, sends you a collection kit, and then offers unbiased filter recommendations matched to your water, without any commissions or referral fees). Our water at home turned out to not be bad, so a carbon filter to remove the chlorine taste is good enough--that saved me from buying an unnecessary more expensive filtration system. "Test don't guess" is good advice for water. (The only thing I didn't test for is PFOAs, as the test wasn't yet available --that's on my list to do this year.)

 

[LuvShepherds]

You can get water pitchers that filer water. I got one for my allergic dog, tried it and found that I preferred the taste to tap water because of all the chemicals. Our tap water has a distinctive taste that water should not have.

 

[Zeppy]

The water discussion is very interesting. I too cannot stand the smell or taste of chlorinated city water and find it disgusting. I use a Brita filter which I’m not sure how much it actually does filtration-wise but it definitely makes it taste better (the dogs also get this water). My parents are on a well and it is very tasty. I currently rent but hope one day to purchase a home that is on a well.

 

[selzer]

My dogs drink my well's water. I drink bottled spring water. Maybe gross, maybe not. If I have to drink water at all, that is what I do, the least of the evils I suppose.

 

[middleofnowhere]

There are alternatives. At some point, the water used to manufacture the single use water bottles was more than the water that they held. I'm old enough to remember canteens. We filled them with our home water and took them with us. About 15 or so years ago, I invested in stainless steel water bottles. They are still fine except for the ones that I inadvertently left some place.
My well water is good enough for me and my dogs. It tastes fine.

And some states have deposits on beverage bottles to encourage recycling. (OR, CA, WA + others)

But what I struggle with is trying to grab something at the grocery store that isn't wrapped in plastic. For snacks on the road home or a quick bite, the packaging determines my purchase maybe more than the contents.... On groceries, given that a larger container uses less product to make, I buy the large size of something that I will use while it is still good. I suppose I should really suggest the grocery go to other packaging and take on some of the manufacturers, too.