Been reading a lot about raw diets on here and other places, as well as asking random dog owners I meet who do feed raw (so some of these questions are to get some confirmation on things I hear).
I intend to follow the "preymodelraw" guidelines: 80/10/10, as dogs aren't known for picking berries, apples, and carrots (and thank goodness! My dog STILL can't figure out the whole 'eating a baby carrot' thing, despite watching me and my mother's dog eat a bunch of them in front of him...can train him to jump through hoops, but no luck on eating carrots...lol). However, I still will occasionally toss him some fruits/vegetables as an attempt at a treat of a new flavor to taste, but it won't be counted towards his diet, as it will be a minuscule amount in his weekly intake. Dairy will not be in his diet, period.
I saw someone post a link to this 'how to' and wonder how closely any of you have followed it: How to get started feeding a Prey Model Raw Diet - Raw Chat - PMR Articles - articles - Prey Model Raw
Did many of you follow the high boned, strictly one meat source, with slow integration approach? Or did many of you just load up on supplies and began feeding a balanced diet? I feel like several weeks without any organs tossed in wouldn't be the best (especially for a very high activity level dog).
Next, bones:
Would it be okay to stick with pretty much one type of animal bone as the staple of their bone intake? Chicken thighs, chicken wings, chicken drumsticks, etc.? These would probably be the cheapest, though I think pork ribs & such aren't too badly priced at some of the stores around me. Also, how do you count the weight of "bone items" towards the weight of their food intake? Say the dog is to get 1 lb of bone during the course of a week: is that with or without the meat & skin attached to, say, a chicken wing? I do have an amazingly highly accurate food scale that goes down to .01 grams; I could find the weight of the average drumstick & wing bones, if we're not supposed to include the weight of the meats attached.
For muscle meats:
Can I do just 2 or 3 different meats? Rabbit and deer aren't readily available to me at a reasonable price, and I hate the smell of fish. I'd probably count chicken & turkey as one, pork as another, and then decided the third source based on price. Beef is probably going to be his third source, since the price is alright when some is on sale. I know he likes beef, as I usually give him a 1 oz or so piece most days; he's eaten chicken drumsticks before; had some of the cooked turkey meat during Thanksgiving and Christmas; I've thinly sliced a boiled hot dog (pork) from Whole Foods before and used it for treats before, and he liked that a lot.
For organs:
"Heart and gizzard are both considered muscle meats when it comes to nutrition and do not count as organ meat." Good to know. But how much should be in the diet, if those aren't counted towards organs? I believe people say they've found them to be 'rich' and thus limited. I think I've read people say 5% hearts/gizzards, and 5% the other organs...but that doesn't fit the preyfoodraw guideline. Should I actually do: 75% meat/10% bone/10% liver-kidney-etc./5% hearts-gizzards?
Frozen feeding?:
In the link to the article, they mention how many dogs will dislike eating organs the most, and they mention some dogs are more willing to eat them frozen. So...frozen liver, kidney, pancreas, lungs, hearts, and gizzards are all fine to feed? I've talked to others in person who say they give their dogs their RMBs and chicken drumsticks frozen, as they are a little longer lasting/keeps them busy and are good for the teeth. I've given some frozen drumsticks before...it is a few licks, some nibbling, a couple chomp-chomps, and tah-dah! It disappeared! The article says it's fine for eating bones and stuff with a just a couple chomps. Is that okay with frozen stuff; nothing bad will happen from long term doing that, right (one guy I talked to has been doing that for 7 years with his dog)? So...frozen gizzards and bones...that leads me to meat. Can you/do any of you feed the meet still frozen? If the dog likes it frozen, is thawing it necessary? Perhaps feeding everything frozen can eventually do some bad (eventual teeth damage?)? How thawed out do you guys let your stuff get? Fully thawed out? Mostly thawed out?
Random things:
-I think I've read something like, if you're feeding white meat, feed beef organs; and if feeding red meat, feed chicken organs, to provide variety in intake. Any validity/supporters of this? I would imagine if a wolf stumbled upon adjacent farms that it could snatch up a sheep from each week, it'd have no issues living like that, eating only sheep.
-Eggs: I've been wondering about how many is right and hearing different things from people, but I think I'll be doing one each day. I was reading on a forum for chicken/egg farmers about them discussing tossing eggs to their dogs. Apparently, the argument has to do with biotin deficiencies from 'too much egg.' BUT, there's pretty much no accounts of that from people who feed yolks or whole eggs. The reason being the yolk has lots of biotin, while the egg whites has an enzyme that binds biotin; however, there is not enough of the enzyme to bind all that the accompanying yolk offers. So, people who feed only the egg white to dogs have had the issue of biotin deficiencies. Therefore, some farmers toss their dogs 3 whole eggs on average each day, with no problems.
-Eggs 2: Do you count the weight of eggs towards your dog(s) food intake? I'm guessing those who feed few eggs don't, while those who feed lots do?
-Egg shells: some people I talk to just give a whole egg, break the egg & shell up together for less mess, and others don't give the shell. Your thoughts? Since he'll be getting an egg each day, would that mean I should maybe slightly reduce his bone intake? Start with the 10% bone and play it by eye to see if his stools are too firm with all the egg shells in his diet? I'm thinking it'd probably be better to reduce egg shell before reducing bone, since bone is probably more important, as eggs are less common to steal in the wild, than eating bones front hunting.
-Fats: how much should a dog be getting? Should it all be lean meats, with whatever fat is already there? Although it seems that a lot of people say ground beef is a 'no' (or at least limited) due to bacteria chances (the bacteria doesn't die after a 10 day deep freeze?), I have seen others say they feed ground beef. If feeding ground beef, should it be a certain percent? I'd feel like with how lean chicken, turkey, deer, fish, and such are, you'd want your ground beef to be 96% lean at least? Just asking in case I find some at a good sale price and want to freeze it up to include as a once a week meal thing.
I've held off on raw feeding thinking of the costs, but after running the numbers...I can probably feed raw for around the same cost as what his grain free kibble runs per day--and that's without really looking for deals; just buying stuff from local grocery stores and Trader Joe's at normal prices (Whole Foods purchasing for dog meats will probably need to be during on sale). I'm friends with someone who works in the Whole Foods meat department--might be able to give me a heads up when things are about to be reduced and such. I recall one of my brother's mentioning there being a pretty good butcher in my area, so I might be able to get extra cheap organs and such in the future there. There's an Amish market about 30 minutes from me--I can probably get some stuff there, too. And then we I do find things on sale?! Instead of breaking even, I'll be saving then!
I'm about to head out shopping, and am going to scout out all the prices of things while there. I'll check back to answers and questions once I get back.
I intend to follow the "preymodelraw" guidelines: 80/10/10, as dogs aren't known for picking berries, apples, and carrots (and thank goodness! My dog STILL can't figure out the whole 'eating a baby carrot' thing, despite watching me and my mother's dog eat a bunch of them in front of him...can train him to jump through hoops, but no luck on eating carrots...lol). However, I still will occasionally toss him some fruits/vegetables as an attempt at a treat of a new flavor to taste, but it won't be counted towards his diet, as it will be a minuscule amount in his weekly intake. Dairy will not be in his diet, period.
I saw someone post a link to this 'how to' and wonder how closely any of you have followed it: How to get started feeding a Prey Model Raw Diet - Raw Chat - PMR Articles - articles - Prey Model Raw
Did many of you follow the high boned, strictly one meat source, with slow integration approach? Or did many of you just load up on supplies and began feeding a balanced diet? I feel like several weeks without any organs tossed in wouldn't be the best (especially for a very high activity level dog).
Next, bones:
Would it be okay to stick with pretty much one type of animal bone as the staple of their bone intake? Chicken thighs, chicken wings, chicken drumsticks, etc.? These would probably be the cheapest, though I think pork ribs & such aren't too badly priced at some of the stores around me. Also, how do you count the weight of "bone items" towards the weight of their food intake? Say the dog is to get 1 lb of bone during the course of a week: is that with or without the meat & skin attached to, say, a chicken wing? I do have an amazingly highly accurate food scale that goes down to .01 grams; I could find the weight of the average drumstick & wing bones, if we're not supposed to include the weight of the meats attached.
For muscle meats:
Can I do just 2 or 3 different meats? Rabbit and deer aren't readily available to me at a reasonable price, and I hate the smell of fish. I'd probably count chicken & turkey as one, pork as another, and then decided the third source based on price. Beef is probably going to be his third source, since the price is alright when some is on sale. I know he likes beef, as I usually give him a 1 oz or so piece most days; he's eaten chicken drumsticks before; had some of the cooked turkey meat during Thanksgiving and Christmas; I've thinly sliced a boiled hot dog (pork) from Whole Foods before and used it for treats before, and he liked that a lot.
For organs:
"Heart and gizzard are both considered muscle meats when it comes to nutrition and do not count as organ meat." Good to know. But how much should be in the diet, if those aren't counted towards organs? I believe people say they've found them to be 'rich' and thus limited. I think I've read people say 5% hearts/gizzards, and 5% the other organs...but that doesn't fit the preyfoodraw guideline. Should I actually do: 75% meat/10% bone/10% liver-kidney-etc./5% hearts-gizzards?
Frozen feeding?:
In the link to the article, they mention how many dogs will dislike eating organs the most, and they mention some dogs are more willing to eat them frozen. So...frozen liver, kidney, pancreas, lungs, hearts, and gizzards are all fine to feed? I've talked to others in person who say they give their dogs their RMBs and chicken drumsticks frozen, as they are a little longer lasting/keeps them busy and are good for the teeth. I've given some frozen drumsticks before...it is a few licks, some nibbling, a couple chomp-chomps, and tah-dah! It disappeared! The article says it's fine for eating bones and stuff with a just a couple chomps. Is that okay with frozen stuff; nothing bad will happen from long term doing that, right (one guy I talked to has been doing that for 7 years with his dog)? So...frozen gizzards and bones...that leads me to meat. Can you/do any of you feed the meet still frozen? If the dog likes it frozen, is thawing it necessary? Perhaps feeding everything frozen can eventually do some bad (eventual teeth damage?)? How thawed out do you guys let your stuff get? Fully thawed out? Mostly thawed out?
Random things:
-I think I've read something like, if you're feeding white meat, feed beef organs; and if feeding red meat, feed chicken organs, to provide variety in intake. Any validity/supporters of this? I would imagine if a wolf stumbled upon adjacent farms that it could snatch up a sheep from each week, it'd have no issues living like that, eating only sheep.
-Eggs: I've been wondering about how many is right and hearing different things from people, but I think I'll be doing one each day. I was reading on a forum for chicken/egg farmers about them discussing tossing eggs to their dogs. Apparently, the argument has to do with biotin deficiencies from 'too much egg.' BUT, there's pretty much no accounts of that from people who feed yolks or whole eggs. The reason being the yolk has lots of biotin, while the egg whites has an enzyme that binds biotin; however, there is not enough of the enzyme to bind all that the accompanying yolk offers. So, people who feed only the egg white to dogs have had the issue of biotin deficiencies. Therefore, some farmers toss their dogs 3 whole eggs on average each day, with no problems.
-Eggs 2: Do you count the weight of eggs towards your dog(s) food intake? I'm guessing those who feed few eggs don't, while those who feed lots do?
-Egg shells: some people I talk to just give a whole egg, break the egg & shell up together for less mess, and others don't give the shell. Your thoughts? Since he'll be getting an egg each day, would that mean I should maybe slightly reduce his bone intake? Start with the 10% bone and play it by eye to see if his stools are too firm with all the egg shells in his diet? I'm thinking it'd probably be better to reduce egg shell before reducing bone, since bone is probably more important, as eggs are less common to steal in the wild, than eating bones front hunting.
-Fats: how much should a dog be getting? Should it all be lean meats, with whatever fat is already there? Although it seems that a lot of people say ground beef is a 'no' (or at least limited) due to bacteria chances (the bacteria doesn't die after a 10 day deep freeze?), I have seen others say they feed ground beef. If feeding ground beef, should it be a certain percent? I'd feel like with how lean chicken, turkey, deer, fish, and such are, you'd want your ground beef to be 96% lean at least? Just asking in case I find some at a good sale price and want to freeze it up to include as a once a week meal thing.
I've held off on raw feeding thinking of the costs, but after running the numbers...I can probably feed raw for around the same cost as what his grain free kibble runs per day--and that's without really looking for deals; just buying stuff from local grocery stores and Trader Joe's at normal prices (Whole Foods purchasing for dog meats will probably need to be during on sale). I'm friends with someone who works in the Whole Foods meat department--might be able to give me a heads up when things are about to be reduced and such. I recall one of my brother's mentioning there being a pretty good butcher in my area, so I might be able to get extra cheap organs and such in the future there. There's an Amish market about 30 minutes from me--I can probably get some stuff there, too. And then we I do find things on sale?! Instead of breaking even, I'll be saving then!
I'm about to head out shopping, and am going to scout out all the prices of things while there. I'll check back to answers and questions once I get back.
