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omg ive just spent last bit reading all this ...im a noone here but i do own a gsd and came in search of help and to be able to ask questions cuz yes my dog is not perfect am i working to fix them? yes ...but omg the things i see some of you say to others is horrible ...some of it is honest advice meant in good way other stuff? like a character assasination.. have i learned anything here in this whole forum? yes ive learned my dog is alot like everyone elses but the people in here? truthfully some of you are just mean.....and yup im outta this forum to search for another where i feel i can ask and not be prosicuted....just saying! and goodbye....oldie n dasha
 
Everyone -

Put the keyboard up and walk away from the thread.

Ask yourself - is what I am posting helping this dog?

Could I start another thread to discuss something tangentially related?

Anthony may not be participating in this particular thread anymore, or others that have been revived and started, but others will read it and may be able to get information or not.
 
Everyone -

Put the keyboard up and walk away from the thread.

Ask yourself - is what I am posting helping this dog?

Could I start another thread to discuss something tangentially related?

Anthony may not be participating in this particular thread anymore, or others that have been revived and started, but others will read it and may be able to get information or not.

I didn't see your post. I agree--especially deciding what someone's intentions were regarding their dog.
 
To me it kind of sounds like Anthony is disappointed that his kids don't want to play a part in Kiras life.
So I am interested in why he got her.
A lot of families get a dog expecting it to be a family dog, shared responsibilities, etc. then the kids do nothing and all of the responsibility gets put on the parents.

I had a lot of hamsters as a kid. I played/fed/watered them for the first week. Then I got bored and my mum was stuck taking care of them. I'm sure a similar thing happened with Kira. While Anthony has been doing a great job with her, I think he wanted a group effort and a lot of silly memories with a family dog.

But still, I guess there is the question, why a GSD and not a Golden or Labrador or numerous other less aloof/protective dogs ?
Who knows.
 
IF his family infact does not like her, as hard as it is, it may actually be the best for her to be rehomed. A dog can sense everything that is going on, she can also sense that she is not trusted, wanted and liked.
Agreed...through personal experience...

We have an anxiety ridden hot mess at home and I never liked her. It has taken a long time for her to settle down and me to lose my attitude towards her. It makes all the difference. She still gets out of her mind and runs into things, including me, to get away if someone moves to fast, the vacuum is going and she doesn't know where to go, etc.

BUT...my attitude towards her was making her 1000x worse. If the kids are constantly shooing her away because they find her annoying, the wife huffs at her, anything like that then it can make her anxiety worse.

I hope Anthony is reading this still. My advice is get a good trainer to assess her. I don't care if you have to drive 3 hours one way to find a good trainer. If you went to a trainer even once a month to learn the skills you need to manage Kira and to help her with behavior modification, re-associating things that freak her out so she sees them as something good or neutral then you have accomplished something. She will never be "fixed" but with maturity and proper training she may be manageable.

It is tiring. I feel your pain. Jax is now 5 yrs old. And just within the last few months her reactivity response to other dogs of "I'll eat your face before you can try to eat mine" has changed to avoidance and now I see her trying to play with dogs. That is something I never thought I'd see. THAT is through behavior modification(LAT) and I think partly due to Sierra settling down and not wanting to fight all the time so Jax is not ON defense all the time.

Different scenario....dogs vs people...but it's the same tools.
 
To me it kind of sounds like Anthony is disappointed that his kids don't want to play a part in Kiras life.
So I am interested in why he got her.
A lot of families get a dog expecting it to be a family dog, shared responsibilities, etc. then the kids do nothing and all of the responsibility gets put on the parents.

I had a lot of hamsters as a kid. I played/fed/watered them for the first week. Then I got bored and my mum was stuck taking care of them. I'm sure a similar thing happened with Kira. While Anthony has been doing a great job with her, I think he wanted a group effort and a lot of silly memories with a family dog.

But still, I guess there is the question, why a GSD and not a Golden or Labrador or numerous other less aloof/protective dogs ?
Who knows.
Thank you...this was my train of thought as well.
And Kira's getting the short end of the stick because of it, whichever way it went. I think everone's expectations of Kira were different and certainly they weren't expecting her to be like she is, if she's being typical or atypical for a GSD.

I think it's a very good lesson for others contemplating this breed, and I'm always appreciative when people come here to ask if this breed is right for them before taking the plunge.
 
I get the impression that msvette2u believes that Kira is just being a GSD and that Anthony wasn't/isn't equipped to handle the breed. Msvette2u I don't want to put words in your mouth so if that's wrong, please clarify what you meant about getting the breed for the wrong reasons.

If that's what you did mean than I disagree and would hate to have new dog owners reading this thread think that Kira's actions are what we expect from stable dogs. She's reactive, or fearful, or whatever word you want to use to describe a dog that has to be managed because she doesn't always make the best decisions.
 
Geez, enough...the arguing needs to stop. There is a board member that is seriously considering getting rid of his beautiful dog. The OP is confused, frustrated, and feeling pretty low right now and we have nothing better to do then argue? I don't care why he got her, I don't care what peoples real names are...none of that matters at this moment. What matters is that the OP is able to think with a clear head and make decisions that won't be regretted later down the line.
 
To me it kind of sounds like Anthony is disappointed that his kids don't want to play a part in Kiras life.
As a parent, I know it makes life at home a lot more difficult when the entire family isn't on board.

As a parent, your decisions will affect the entire family. I sure don't envy Anthony at this point.

For what it's worth, I like Anthony. I think he is a very brave man. If we ever met in real life, I'd love to be his friend.
 
I get the impression that msvette2u believes that Kira is just being a GSD and that Anthony wasn't/isn't equipped to handle the breed. Msvette2u I don't want to put words in your mouth so if that's wrong, please clarify what you meant about getting the breed for the wrong reasons.

If that's what you did mean than I disagree and would hate to have new dog owners reading this thread think that Kira's actions are what we expect from stable dogs. She's reactive, or fearful, or whatever word you want to use to describe a dog that has to be managed because she doesn't always make the best decisions.
YES that's it. I mean...I even said it in another thread, "she's not coconut, she's a GSD".

But I actually do think with proper handling - and expecting a degree of 'protectiveness' - she'd do fine in the home.

That is, like the party, put the dog away in another room. When there's a sleepover, put up some gates and keep Kira away from the guests.

Because I'm guessing there's thousands of Kiras out there, with less than stellar breeding/temperament, and people manage them fine, without the advice of the internet. Manage being the keyword.

But that said, many have said in the past Anthony needs to separate Kira, put her in a crate, don't expect her to like strangers coming in, etc. and without that happening, Kira may indeed be a bite risk.

Anthony always seems surprised when Kira behaves like a GSD would. No dog makes the best decisions, because they are dogs.
 
Anthony, I know the feeling of total overwhelm. The kids aren't taking the situation seriously and I feel your frustration. I might almost suggest family counseling.

Most everybody else has said everything that needs to be said. I'm not going to beat up on you.

Kira is at the most difficult stage of GSDdom--the adolescent phase. These kinds of issues are, unfortunately, very common. Many GSDs grow out of it with continued training, so don't despair just yet.

Always crate her when guests are over. Always.

Purchase a kennel for when you are not home. You can get one of those welded-wire AKC kennels for around $400 at Costco. Keep her in the kennel during the day when you and your wife are not home. This will not hurt her a bit.

I have mixed feelings about dogs being on furniture. With some dogs, it seems to "elevate" their status to the point where they think they have to be the boss of things. Kira has not yet figured out that she is not supposed to be the one in control. Perhaps the crate and kennel will "demote" her to the level of subordinate. I don't mean that in a bad way, I mean it in the way that she does not feel so "responsible". It's just like some people are more comfortable with less responsibility.

My husband turned down a job at the brewery, for the sole reason that the position would have entailed more responsibility over a pack of unruly, histrionic co-workers, without much more pay. He enjoys his current job. The new lead position would have taken away everything about his job that is fun, and given him a huge headache trying to control quarrelsome co-workers. What does that have to do with the price of tea, you ask? Just trying to point out that some dogs, like some people, do not like to be in a position where they are compelled to be vigilant over others. If Kira is in a crate or kennel rather than being loose in the house, she may be less likely to take on that vigilance.

It's worth a try before you go back to the breeder.

Still, it would be a good idea to call the breeder and tell them of the issues you are having. Without a doubt, they have seen this kind of thing before, and may have some tips to help you get through this. If they say they've never seen it in any dogs of their breeding, they are either liars, in denial, or they simply haven't seen it because no one has brought it to their attention. IMO, it's important that they know what kind of temperament issues may come up in their breeding program.
 
Anthony , simply , there is no beating up "You can beat me up all you want. I did the best I could. You may think I ignored your advice, but I didn't"

I know you have not ignored me --many times when I held the line , you probably had a bit of pleasure from giving me a bit of a kick - dang I got suckered into this discussion again. lol . Still in there --

this "She acted as referee as I mentioned in another thread. The kids were laughing in another part of the room, and Kira jumped up and got in between them."

I thought that thread was about a female adult guest who reached out to one of the older daughters who was being a typical teen "mouthy" ???

Saying it is YOU , Mrs K. The dog had issues from the earliest in the park . Anthony may not have management down pat , but there is nothing that he is doing that would make me hesitate having him as an owner, NOR SHOULD ANYONE ELSE! Firm on that . Sometimes you don't create a problem you inheret it . That dog would be the same in any home .

Dogs come in to the world with their own set of emotional chemistry . How many other forum members write about pups they just got with issues long before much owner or environmental input . Why does one read and study pedigrees ?

She does not need to be re-homed . She needs to be managed differently in the home .
The breeder has no interest , that went by the wayside the moment the cheque was cashed . Proof of that was the lack of interest when (hope my recollection is correct -- ) Kira had a hip problem?

I can imagine that Anthony would have looked forward to doing more with the dog - and can't because any thing he may want to try is going to introduce another problem to solve.
In part we bring dogs in to our lives to have some pleasure , expand our own social networks and interests, get out , get some exercise , some quiet time , heck -- they are supposed to reduce our stress not add to it . (ideally).

out of context , point - " telling their friends to respect Kira's space, " the house is not Kira's space -- the entire family and all invited guests should be able to move around freely without inhibition -- they are not interested in Kira so there is no interaction -- but the dog enters their space , over and over , because her threshold is low and so her buffer zone is larger , threat is perceived quickly and at distance .

There is nothing wrong with the family being
apathetic to the dog -- she IS Anthony's dog .

Crating , kenneling , solution in management. At this very moment Costco's are offering very attractive , sturdy AKC approved kennels 8 x 8 x 6 . Get some patio stones . Lay a foundation and set the Kennel sytem on top . They also provide a shade cover . This way the dog is with Anthony , under control, in the kennel safe from negative interaction, or in the home in a crate . I am not in favour at all with dogs on furniture or sharing a bed . Too much entitlement . That picture of her on the foot stool by the window -- definitely not for me -- Too much family revolving around the dog . Dog too central and demanding . You on couch with your feet up , having your evening after meal beverage , dog lying at your feet (because before dinner you took the dog for a quick jog ) . Dog works for you, not you for the dog.
I agree with Liesje , the whole family does not need to be involved . They have to respect and accommodate whatever rules Anthony sets down . He is in charge . If he puts her somewhere that is where she stays until he gets her out. Even better there will be consistancy . If Anthony says sit the dog sits. If a family members says sit and the dog wanders around distracted and then finally decides , yeah , sit , okay , sit -- then the dog has two sets of expectations , and that brings conflict , the next time Anthony asks sit , now.

Bing bing bing - Yes ! "What Kira did in that video is not what GSD's do when they're stable. Children should not be targets. Anyone who has said their GSD has issues with kids has said they have to manage that situation. It doesn't in any way suggest they didn't get a GSD knowing that they're a protective breed and then not like it when they act that way. GSD's are supposed to be able to discern friend from foe. That child was clearly not a foe. Don't try to spin it. You wanted to dis Anthony because YOU assumed just because he lives in the big city and has a nice home that he didn't know what he was doing. Rather, I think he was not necessarily prepared for a bit of nerve issue and is learning along the way. I daresay I would put his dog training for basic obedience up against most of the dogs on this board and say she is under his control very well. His issue is learning how to manage her reactivity. "

Adding to that recognizing that this is her base temperament .

why? San - "My current GSD is a high defense/low threshold dog. She is a reactive dog. My GSD may not have the perfect temperament but she is perfect for us. She listens to us well and is very sweet. We really enjoy her quirks and our lives revolve around her. Given a choice again, we would have no hesitation in getting another dog just like her. "

If you have it , deal with it , but do recognize that there are rock solid GSD out there with high thresholds very capable of doing any sport or real life protection and are able to sail through life , any situation, environment , often are not ever giving out any signal as to the power that they have. A low threshold dog requires extra care -- your life revolves around the dog -- I would rather have a dog that fits into my life .
 
I have to say, as well, that dogs like Kira, less than stellar temperaments, are more the norm than the exception nowawdays, I get that feeling due to over breeding of the breed and also dogs in rescue/shelters that may be adopted and within weeks displaying issues like Kira has been.

Kira has not yet figured out that she is not supposed to be the one in control.
This should be a sticky. This could actually stand alone as the only/best advice in this entire trainwreck of a thread.

Kira has not yet figured out that she is not supposed to be the one in control.
NO dog should be the one in control in any house, no matter what the breed, or temperament.
Because she does feel she is, is 99% of this problem.
 
Anthony, I've been following your threads on Kira for a while. This makes me so sad. I do really hope you can find someone who can help you and your family work with Kira and that everything works out for the best. I do believe with time and proper training, it can all work out. I wish the best for you and Kira.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 
sheesh I'm off a few hours and come back to read this:)

First, Anthony, again your a brave soul, I totally understand why you 'set up' Kira and did the video, lot of opinions tho that aren't very helpful nor understanding.

But then, I've seen alot of good info as well..Here is my 2 cents

So what if your family isn't as 'into' Kira as you are. She is YOUR dog, YOU CAN manage her. I know you love her so don't think about rehoming to god knows where or returning her to the breeder, cause you know my opinion of him:(

This is what I would do to manage, Since the kids are home before you or your wife, lay down the law, NO ONE other than your own kids are allowed IN the house without you or your wife there. PERIOD>

Crate her or get a nice big kennel for her and keep her in it or leashed to you when people are over.

There are dogs with issues far worse than Kira out there, management is easy if rules are inforced and lived by.

YOU CAN do this.

No more setting her up for negative reactions, know what you have, deal with it, and get your family on board. I really hope it can work for you, because I just can't see Kira with someone other than yourself.
 
"If you have it , deal with it , but do recognize that there are rock solid GSD out there with high thresholds very capable of doing any sport or real life protection and are able to sail through life , any situation, environment , often are not ever giving out any signal as to the power that they have. A low threshold dog requires extra care -- your life revolves around the dog -- I would rather have a dog that fits into my life "

This is so true. And I can't speak for Anthony. I will say that I started at a place where I assumed finding a reputable breeder with decent, titled dogs and a good facility, (checklist, checklist, checklist) would deliver that to me. What I did NOT know, and I do now, is that genetics is what will deliver that to me. That a breeder is only as good as the genetics of the lines he's breeding.

Honestly, I thank my lucky stars that my dog seems to be solidly nerved in most respects. This is not because I looked for that in the lines; I got lucky, plain and simple. Is he everything a GSD should be? I don't honestly know, but I know that for my life, for what happens in my life, he's pretty close. I am not sure of how "appropriate" his defense and/or civil aggression drives are, but NOT having "enough" of those (if that is the case, I really don't know) is much easier to work around than having to manage reactivity issues as some have to. Will my next dog be purchased with genetics in mind first and foremost? Yes absolutely, unless I find one in rescue or some such thing.

Anthony is a smart and thoughtful owner who only wants the best for his family and his dog. I'm sure he will think things over carefully and move forward in whatever he feels is the best direction.
 
sheesh I'm off a few hours and come back to read this:)

First, Anthony, again your a brave soul, I totally understand why you 'set up' Kira and did the video, lot of opinions tho that aren't very helpful nor understanding.

But then, I've seen alot of good info as well..Here is my 2 cents

So what if your family isn't as 'into' Kira as you are. She is YOUR dog, YOU CAN manage her. I know you love her so don't think about rehoming to god knows where or returning her to the breeder, cause you know my opinion of him:(

This is what I would do to manage, Since the kids are home before you or your wife, lay down the law, NO ONE other than your own kids are allowed IN the house without you or your wife there. PERIOD>

Crate her or get a nice big kennel for her and keep her in it or leashed to you when people are over.

There are dogs with issues far worse than Kira out there, management is easy if rules are inforced and lived by.

YOU CAN do this.

No more setting her up for negative reactions, know what you have, deal with it, and get your family on board. I really hope it can work for you, because I just can't see Kira with someone other than yourself.
:thumbup:Oh so well said:thumbup:
 
Anthony, I haven't read the whole thread but here's what I have to offer.

Jackson pretty much acts the same way as Kira, and he has come a long way. What I do for him is crate him in an area where he can see what is going on, and that guests are not a threat. He barks, stares, etc for a while, and then once he is able to see everyone's interactions WITHOUT me being right there at his side, he realizes that it is OKAY, and calms down and wants to be a part of the excitment too. I let him out, and he generally is fine. In certain situations with certain people, he needs to be re-crated or put in the basement, away from the activity. I also correct any behavior I do not approve of. If he is acting out in any way, such as barking and hackling at someone in my home after he has been fine with them for the previous half hour (for instance someone walking past him looking in the opposite direction), he gets yelled at. Certain situations are non-threatening and not even directed remotley towards him, and if he is going to call the shots on that, he will get corrected. Nobody is pushing him. For US, it has been a balance of him calming himself down in his crate first, letting him be a part of the activity once/if he is CALM, and laying down boundaries to what is acceptable and what is not. You also need to pay very close attention to Kira's body language. If she is tense, she needs crate time to observe instead of being a part of it all.
 
sheesh I'm off a few hours and come back to read this:)

First, Anthony, again your a brave soul, I totally understand why you 'set up' Kira and did the video, lot of opinions tho that aren't very helpful nor understanding.

But then, I've seen alot of good info as well..Here is my 2 cents

So what if your family isn't as 'into' Kira as you are. She is YOUR dog, YOU CAN manage her. I know you love her so don't think about rehoming to god knows where or returning her to the breeder, cause you know my opinion of him:(

This is what I would do to manage, Since the kids are home before you or your wife, lay down the law, NO ONE other than your own kids are allowed IN the house without you or your wife there. PERIOD>

Crate her or get a nice big kennel for her and keep her in it or leashed to you when people are over.

There are dogs with issues far worse than Kira out there, management is easy if rules are inforced and lived by.


YOU CAN do this.

No more setting her up for negative reactions, know what you have, deal with it, and get your family on board. I really hope it can work for you, because I just can't see Kira with someone other than yourself.
YES Anthony don't give up !!!
 
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