[Gwenhwyfair]

Oh and this in blue too!

Yup, that's been my experience as well....and if you are around other people's dogs enough you're going to witness this first hand many more times too.

Well my dog has never done THAT before but upon further discussion, and questioning, oh well actually he has done this and this and that....

<snipped>

Back to the thread though…the reason most people placed blame on the employee is because of the picture OP painted. Jane is all these “weird/different” things…my dog is an angel that has never done anything wrong before. Is that believable? Maybe OP is missing signs that the dog does react negatively towards others? Or does have anxiety in other situations? Maybe the reaction isn’t as forward as this one was, but there was still some sort of stress in that reaction? I’ve learned that many times, a dog’s reaction is never a “first time” thing. I know this because I used to think I had a perfect, submissive, little angel of a dog. Then the first time he didn’t submit and decided to stand up for himself, I thought, well it’s just the first time, THAT dog must have something wrong with it. Then it kind of kept happening again and again. I then thought back about other signs I’d seen before, I spoke with people I trained with, who all pointed out things that they saw in my dog that spelled that something like this was going to develop.

 

[Sri]

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter WHY the dog is doing this. It's reaction is completely unnecessary and improper. I know that some of you don't care if your dog barks and bites everything that moves, probably think it’s the greatest guard dog on the planet because it flips its lid over anything that moves outside of your house. But this is a terrible reaction.

The dog more than likely reacted to something physical rather than chemical. OP wasn’t in the room, has no idea why, and in the process of getting a hold of the dog probably missed something that Jane was wearing or doing at the time that freaked the dog out. Not a big deal, even balanced dogs get freaked out once in a while by something new.

This whole thread is a perfect example of normal human behavior:

1) When we don’t like someone, we tend to notice funny/different things more. We pick on the things they do and remember them. If someone that we liked did them, we wouldn’t even notice.

2) We get upset when negative things are said about things we have raised. A dog, a kid, anything that we think we’ve been doing right by. When the blame is placed on “us” rather than the object that isn’t under our control, we get upset and defensive.

3) We don’t like to be confrontational. This happens all the time on threads. The majority of people will agree with the OP, and many times with whatever side the GSD is on because we hold this breed in such high esteem. We don’t like to go against the response that OP is looking for, and so most people will appease that, they put themselves in the shoes of the OP and think of how they’d react (then go back to 1 and 2).

If you’ve been on this site for long enough…#3 gets really apparent. I can’t remember the number of threads where a GSD is “attacked” by a small dog and everyone blames the off-leash small dog. Once there was a thread about how a small dog came onto a GSD’s yard, the GSD then protected its yard, and even chased the dog back into their yard where it proceeded to kill said dog. Everyone was in agreement…GSD was in the right, small dog was in the wrong, should’ve been on leash, contained, blah blah blah. There was also a thread about some guy who shot a GSD that “attacked” him and his small dogs when he was walking. Owner and neighbors of course said the GSD was the sweetest dog in the world and was just trying to play. The majority of the forum again sided with the GSD…how could that guy shoot the dog? It wasn’t attacking! It was playing! Didn’t matter at that point that the dog had left its yard, wasn’t on lead, wasn’t under control…

Back to the thread though…the reason most people placed blame on the employee is because of the picture OP painted. Jane is all these “weird/different” things…my dog is an angel that has never done anything wrong before. Is that believable? Maybe OP is missing signs that the dog does react negatively towards others? Or does have anxiety in other situations? Maybe the reaction isn’t as forward as this one was, but there was still some sort of stress in that reaction? I’ve learned that many times, a dog’s reaction is never a “first time” thing. I know this because I used to think I had a perfect, submissive, little angel of a dog. Then the first time he didn’t submit and decided to stand up for himself, I thought, well it’s just the first time, THAT dog must have something wrong with it. Then it kind of kept happening again and again. I then thought back about other signs I’d seen before, I spoke with people I trained with, who all pointed out things that they saw in my dog that spelled that something like this was going to develop.

Now that's hyperbole. I dont recall reading even ONE person feeling their dog doing this is awesome. Most people are concernedm wanting to find out whats wrong, what they can do, etc..

Perhaps the OP's tone is more conversational than concerned. But in a post its hard to judge.

Certainly when emotions are involved (as you say about thethings we have raised) its very hard to think clearly. In most cases we are trying to look at every angle, our mind is a blur going ...but this... but that,

You yourself said that you went through incidents that you didn't quite connect till you had cause for real concern. It takes a good deal of experience with dogs, and a mind that is open to learning new things to get better in this field (dog behavior and training). And by that I mean to say so people post here to learn from the ones more experienced, to try and make sense of whats happening.

 

[Lilie]

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter WHY the dog is doing this. It's reaction is completely unnecessary and improper.

This ^^ is exactly my point. You should want to know WHY your dog is exhibiting a specific behavior. Therefore, it does matter. That is what makes you a better handler. That certainly doesn't mean that you allow your dog to continue the behavior. (In this case, the OP is no longer allowing her dog to roam freely throughout the building.)

There are times where you'll never know why. But you should never stop wanting to learn more about your dog.

 

[Gwenhwyfair]

Agreed!

In my story earlier with Ilda's situation that's what the trainer helped me with as well, understanding the 'why' and what to do about it.

This ^^ is exactly my point. You should want to know WHY your dog is exhibiting a specific behavior. Therefore, it does matter. That is what makes you a better handler. That certainly doesn't mean that you allow your dog to continue the behavior. (In this case, the OP is no longer allowing her dog to roam freely throughout the building.)

There are times why you'll never know why. But you should never stop wanting to learn more about your dog.

 

[martemchik]

Now that's hyperbole. I dont recall reading even ONE person feeling their dog doing this is awesome. Most people are concernedm wanting to find out whats wrong, what they can do, etc..

I know no one said it, but the fact is that people are trying to figure out a way to make it “alright” that the dog reacted in this fashion. IMO…unless the person is threatening YOU or the DOG either verbally or physically, the dog should not react in this way. So it doesn’t matter what they smell like, or what their history is like with dogs or with you, a dog should not react in an aggressive way unless there is a threat presented.

Threats are presented physically. Sure, testosterone and other chemicals might spike that we’ve learned the dog might pick up on and react, but those other chemicals can also spike if a person is fearful of a dog and only get compounded by the dog reacting aggressively.

Fearful, or less-confident, or young dogs (not saying OP’s is all these things) gain confidence when they get the reaction they want/expect after they test the person. For example…a dog isn’t confident around men, it barks, or presents a body language that a person gets “weirded out” by and moves back away from the dog. The dog has gained some power over the person, it keeps going, and going, and eventually the dog has a lot of power over that thing that it was originally freaked out by.

This is really seen when working in IPO, you don’t challenge young dogs, you let them win, you build their confidence. A helper doesn’t present himself fully, you work the dog in prey. Everything is a game. This is all to build confidence and show the dog that it does have power over a decoy.

I think there are definitely better reasons and answers than, “you don’t like Jane, dog doesn’t like Jane.” And I don’t believe that the dog is unbalanced or broken or whatever else was said about it. There is probably a more concrete, physical reason why the dog reacted the way it did.

 

[martemchik]

This ^^ is exactly my point. You should want to know WHY your dog is exhibiting a specific behavior. Therefore, it does matter. That is what makes you a better handler. That certainly doesn't mean that you allow your dog to continue the behavior. (In this case, the OP is no longer allowing her dog to roam freely throughout the building.)

There are times where you'll never know why. But you should never stop wanting to learn more about your dog.

But Lillie, weren't you the person that said that you would not correct your dog for growling or barking at anyone? Even when you have no idea why they're doing it?

Education is great, but if your goal isn't to raise a guard dog or a dog that does have tons of suspicion, you should correct any behavior that isn't PC (for lack of a better term). If all you want is a good pet, that doesn't present any liability to the public, this should be corrected.

 

[Blanketback]

I think there are definitely better reasons and answers than, “you don’t like Jane, dog doesn’t like Jane.”

Why are you so ready to dismiss this? Not to say that this is exactly the reason, since we have no idea and are only offering our opinions. But I've had enough experiences with my own dogs to know that this could be what's going on. So I wouldn't rule it out myself.

 

[Lilie]

But Lillie, weren't you the person that said that you would not correct your dog for growling or barking at anyone? Even when you have no idea why they're doing it?

EXACTLY right! My STABLE dog. My dog who doesn't bark or growl at anyone while he visits everyone in the building. Correcting and removing him would be two different things.

 

[martemchik]

Why are you so ready to dismiss this? Not to say that this is exactly the reason, since we have no idea and are only offering our opinions. But I've had enough experiences with my own dogs to know that this could be what's going on. So I wouldn't rule it out myself.

You must've missed the part where the OP wrote how there is a new guy no one likes and the dog doesn't seem to mind him.

In any case...a dog should not react aggressively at someone YOU don't like. If that someone is threatening you, and you reflect a level of fear or worry at a particular moment towards a person, the dog can react. Even if a dog picks up on a feeling of dislike towards a person, that is not a reason to react in the way the dog did. I would definitely correct that kind of behavior as that is not the "right" feeling for the dog to be reacting to.

 

[belladonnalily]

Eh..sounds like Jane isn't one of the popular in the office.

I agree with Sparra and Blanketback.

It would be an interesting experiment if you, OP, could adjust your perception of Jane and see if that changes how your dog reacts. It would be hard to do though....

In any case this maybe one of those situations that gets sorted out by karma, one of which could be your dog will no longer be allowed in the office.

I don't hate Jane. I'm the friendliest to her already. I've bailed her out of problems (work-related).

Unless I let my dog bites her, he won't be banned. Jane's employment with us is something of a mission of mercy.

I'll stop bringing him by my own choice if it gets uncomfortable for her, or doesn't seem to be getting better on Tucker's end. No point in stressing either of them out.

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[Sabis mom]

Ok, I used to take Sabi on city transit all the time, like several times a week. She was fine. One day out of the blue, this guy gets on the bus and Sabi goes ballistic. Obviously we got off at the next stop. But my perfectly stable, sane dog chose one person out of hundreds to dislike, and I should disregard that?
Trust your dog, they know things we never will. In all her years working with me, Sabi was never wrong and on at least one occasion her seemingly senseless actions saved my life.
Jane may be ill, may have substance abuse issues, may be mentally unbalanced or may be an alien in human form. Who knows. But for some reason your dog has singled her out and that bears watching.

 

[Blanketback]

Martemchik, I already said that I correct for this behavior, so I agree with you on that point. I'm careful not to allow my feelings towards people influence my dogs' actions, and when it does my dogs aren't encourage to take matters into their own paws. Lol.

Maybe the animosity just hasn't built up around the "new guy" yet, and that's why OP's dog isn't reacting the same way? We're only guessing. Maybe Jane does taxidermy in her spare time and is admiring OP's dog?

 

[Gwenhwyfair]

Where did I say you hate Jane? I said "isn't popular" and you've left no shadow of a doubt about that.....

BTW- as an aside really, that's a very unusual situation you have at your work, that you can call the shots like that without being an owner/upper manager?

Not questioning you, I believe you so no explanation is needed, but just being able to bring a dog to work is pretty rare, then if problems arise...you're very fortunate in that respect.

I don't hate Jane. I'm the friendliest to her already. I've bailed her out of problems (work-related).

Unless I let my dog bites her, he won't be banned. Jane's employment with us is something of a mission of mercy.

I'll stop bringing him by my own choice if it gets uncomfortable for her, or doesn't seem to be getting better on Tucker's end. No point in stressing either of them out.

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[Gwenhwyfair]

:spittingcoffee::wild:

Martemchik, I already said that I correct for this behavior, so I agree with you on that point. I'm careful not to allow my feelings towards people influence my dogs' actions, and when it does my dogs aren't encourage to take matters into their own paws. Lol.

Maybe the animosity just hasn't built up around the "new guy" yet, and that's why OP's dog isn't reacting the same way? We're only guessing. Maybe Jane does taxidermy in her spare time and is admiring OP's dog?

 

[martemchik]

Blanket, I know you would, I'm not saying anyone here is handling their dogs incorrectly or would react incorrectly in that situation. I believe OP corrected her dog, which IMO was the right thing to do. At this point, my advice would be to redirect the dog to a toy or something and teach it to ignore Jane completely...for everyone's safety.

To assume that Jane is a crack head, alcoholic, or has some other disease is the dumbest stretch of imagination I've ever heard. Instead of looking for physical evidence, people want to chalk it up to a chemical imbalance, that somehow, out of all the people the dog has met though out its life, this one is the only one with the imbalance...come on.

Although it would be nice to know why the dog is reacting, without being there for the reaction, no one can tell. The best thing to do is to teach the dog that this type of reaction is not good and should not be allowed. Whatever the dog is reacting to, be it physical or chemical, the dog needs to learn that it shouldn't do this when it sees this or smells it since the thing is not a threat and is actually turning the dog into a liability.

 

[Lilie]

My honest theory in this situation is that Jane doesn't like dogs. She doesn't want to be a stick in the mud as the entire office seems to be dog people, so she tolerates the dogs.

Day one, Jane wasn't over attentive with the new pup. Who doesn't love puppies? People who don't care for dogs.

Then came the day in question. Tucker was off wandering on his own. He went into Jane's office. He was going to say hello, just as he does everyone else.

Jane doesn't want Tucker in her office. She doesn't care for any of the dogs in the office, but the other dogs aren't as pushy as a year old GSD. She doesn't care to be social with Tucker. So she made a jerky 'get -out' gesture at him to scare him off. After all, nobody will see her and it is her office. And she isn't a dog person. She thinks the dog will turn tail and run off.

Tucker is used to being invited. He's never been uninvited. So he reacts. Tucker is a year old. Still pretty much a puppy. This has never happend. She scares him and he reacts.

Jane, pretends she has no idea why he is barking at her. After all, it is HER office and he doesn't belong there. She shouldn't have to explain herself, but she doesn't want to make enemies with everyone in the building. She hopes Tucker never returns.

The End.

 

[martemchik]

My honest theory in this situation is that Jane doesn't like dogs. She doesn't want to be a stick in the mud as the entire office seems to be dog people, so she tolerates the dogs.

Day one, Jane wasn't over attentive with the new pup. Who doesn't love puppies? People who don't care for dogs.

Then came the day in question. Tucker was off wandering on his own. He went into Jane's office. He was going to say hello, just as he does everyone else.

Jane doesn't want Tucker in her office. She doesn't care for any of the dogs in the office, but the other dogs aren't as pushy as a year old GSD. She doesn't care to be social with Tucker. So she made a jerky 'get -out' gesture at him to scare him off. After all, nobody will see her and it is her office. And she isn't a dog person. She thinks the dog will turn tail and run off.

Tucker is used to being invited. He's never been uninvited. So he reacts. Tucker is a year old. Still pretty much a puppy. This has never happend. She scares him and he reacts.

Jane, pretends she has no idea why he is barking at her. After all, it is HER office and he doesn't belong there. She shouldn't have to explain herself, but she doesn't want to make enemies with everyone in the building. She hopes Tucker never returns.

The End.

Dog leaves, Jane takes a swig of vodka and snorts a line of coke.

 

[Lilie]

Dog leaves, Jane takes a swig of vodka and snorts a line of coke.

After she finishes the last touches on the wall mount of a squirrel she has hidden in her desk. Right behind the secret monitor that she uses to communicate with the mother ship.

 

[belladonnalily]

Where did I say you hate Jane? I said "isn't popular" and you've left no shadow of a doubt about that.....

BTW- as an aside really, that's a very unusual situation you have at your work, that you can call the shots like that without being an owner/upper manager?

Not questioning you, I believe you so no explanation is needed, but just being able to bring a dog to work is pretty rare, then if problems arise...you're very fortunate in that respect.

Why do you assume I'm not an "upper manager"?

It's an unusual company. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not so much. It is what it is.

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[Daisy&Lucky's Mom]

My honest theory in this situation is that Jane doesn't like dogs. She doesn't want to be a stick in the mud as the entire office seems to be dog people, so she tolerates the dogs.

Day one, Jane wasn't over attentive with the new pup. Who doesn't love puppies? People who don't care for dogs.

Then came the day in question. Tucker was off wandering on his own. He went into Jane's office. He was going to say hello, just as he does everyone else.

Jane doesn't want Tucker in her office. She doesn't care for any of the dogs in the office, but the other dogs aren't as pushy as a year old GSD. She doesn't care to be social with Tucker. So she made a jerky 'get -out' gesture at him to scare him off. After all, nobody will see her and it is her office. And she isn't a dog person. She thinks the dog will turn tail and run off.

Tucker is used to being invited. He's never been uninvited. So he reacts. Tucker is a year old. Still pretty much a puppy. This has never happend. She scares him and he reacts.

Jane, pretends she has no idea why he is barking at her. After all, it is HER office and he doesn't belong there. She shouldn't have to explain herself, but she doesn't want to make enemies with everyone in the building. She hopes Tucker never returns.

The End.

Lilie that actually makes alot of sense. Is Jane evil, a serial killer ,taxidermist or meth manufacturer? Probably not she just doesnt like dogs in an office where alot of full time folks love dogs and have them in the office. Is Jane fulltime ? If she's a contractor who works part time why would she rock the boat in an obvious dog lovers work culture . Kind of like wanting to clean my house but hates dogs probably not the cleaning job you want. in Tucker's world everybody is happy to see him at the office and most people redirect according to the OP's direction. Jane may not have any inkling of how to redirect or care. I spent alot of time in the prison dog program helping inmates who hd never been around dogs learn some basics of how to interact. some guys just wanted to stay as far from the dogs as possible. Sounds like the OP redirected and addressed this issue and discussed it with her trainer.OP sounds like you handled everything in a responsible manner. Your question about why Tuck would react this way is one I would have,

As I was writing this I thought about a great schutzhund dog who was stolen from his yard in a matter of minutes and was later killed.The question was asked why didnt he react? I think part of the answer is because in order to be in the public our dogs have to show no aggression towards people ,no matter what. Perhaps there was a physical threat to Tucker and he barked. Dont get me wrong Im not saying that dogs should be aggressive or bite or behave in a threatening manner however there is the chance that people treat dogs w/ aggression .just a thought.