[Konotashi]

We've only ever come across and 'captured' 2 strays. Neither were altered. I've seen other strays, but couldn't catch them.

The first was Sania, our lab. After we decided to keep her (after searching for her owners for a while with no luck), she came into heat. After her cycle, we had her spayed.

Second dog was a husky/lab mix. I found him wandering next to a busy road by our neighborhood. He followed two kids out of our neighborhood and I asked them if he was their dog. They didn't even know he was following them, but he wasn't theirs. So I managed to get him into my car and took him home. Aiden HATED him. He has an issue with intact males, except for Ozzy since he's been here since puppyhood. We had to find him a new home within two days. A woman took him, and said she'd get him neutered ASAP. Few months pass by, and she calls my mom saying he's being destructive because she's pregnant. Psh. So we post an ad for him on Craigslist, and the ORIGINAL owner that lost him saw the ad (after giving up looking for him, they got online to find another dog). She went to pick him up and showed the person we rehomed him to pictures from when he was a puppy and was crying because she thought she'd never see him again.

Do I think people should spay and neuter their pets? As a general rule, yes. A large majority of people are too lazy or incapable (or whatever you'd like to call it) of containing an intact dog.

Will I have my males neutered? No. Vasectomized? Most likely.

I would spay my females after they were at least 2 years old.

 

[Mrs.K]

I'm with Sue on this one. I will not have my perfectly healthy dog cut open for any other reason than medical. None of my dogs will ever get spayed or neutered as long as they are in my primary care.

And yes, it is easy to prevent an oops litter. Ooops can happen, I'm not saying that accidents could never happen, they could happen to me if I don't pay attention. BUT 90% of those oops litters were planned and then portrayed as oops.

 

[Jack's Dad]

If the current lot of spayed or neutered dogs were intact, they still would not be the problem. The problem is the irresponsible owners who actually WANT puppies until they figure out what they are in for.

Never heard of any statistics or proof of that. It's fine if you believe that but I have a feeling that it's your own idea and not necessarily a fact.

 

[Debbieg]

Benny is the first dog I have not neutered. With my prior dogs I just did everything the vet recommended when it came to speuter, food, vaccs. When i got Benny 2 1/2 years ago i began reading and researching everything I could find.

Benny had one retained testicle and based on my research I chose to decided to have the retained testicle removed, and leave the other intact in September when he was 2 and 4 months.

Benny will not be bred. When not with me, he is in the house. He goes many places with me and his being intact does not seem to cause any behavior problems. I have to pay more each month to renew Benny's license because he is intact which I think is unfair!

My sons adopted Pit Bull was spayed at 4 months before we were able to get her from the shelter and she leaks urine. ( not sure if the early spay was the cause). I wanted to wait until she was 18 months and would have signed a contract promising to not let her breed and spay her when she was mature but this was not allowed.

I do think speutering is the best option for people who cannot ensure their pets won't be bred.

There are studies that say speutering decreases risk of certain diseases, increases the risk of other diseases. We all owe it to out dogs to make the informed choice that we feel is best for the health of our dogs and if we keep them intact be responsible not to let them breed.

 

[sparra]

I'm with Sue on this one. I will not have my perfectly healthy dog cut open for any other reason than medical. None of my dogs will ever get spayed or neutered as long as they are in my primary care.

I really don't care either way.....desex your dog....don't desex your dog.
What gets me when I read this thread is some of the language used.
Those who desex their dogs are "irresponsible" "mutiliating" and having their dogs "cut open" I mean really.....if the only way to get your point across is to make people feel like they are doing some barbaric practice then you should just give up

 

[msvette2u]

I really don't care either way.....desex your dog....don't desex your dog.
What gets me when I read this thread is some of the language used.
Those who desex their dogs are "irresponsible" "mutiliating" and having their dogs "cut open" I mean really.....if the only way to get your point across is to make people feel like they are doing some barbaric practice then you should just give up

:toasting: <-- can't find a "good post" or "applaud" icon.

Add to the above "fixed when not broken"

 

[Jack's Dad]

:toasting: <-- can't find a "good post" or "applaud" icon.

Add to the above "fixed when not broken"

I second or third that. It's late :thumbup:

 

[jetscarbie]

My SIL has a female GSD. She won't get her fixed b/c the vet charges to much. She's called around to tons of places close by her house.....and well over $500. So she decided not to get her fixed. She does have some money put back for vet bills...but she decided there is no reason to fix her female and spend all the savings she has saved up for her.

Personally, I think money could be the reason some people don't S/N.

For example...a local place had cheap S/N clinic one time. I think it was $45 for dogs. I read in the paper that there was over 800 people that showed up with their pets. SO MANY people that they had to turn most of them away.

 

[Mrs.K]

I really don't care either way.....desex your dog....don't desex your dog.
What gets me when I read this thread is some of the language used.
Those who desex their dogs are "irresponsible" "mutiliating" and having their dogs "cut open" I mean really.....if the only way to get your point across is to make people feel like they are doing some barbaric practice then you should just give up

I did not call anyone irresponsible. In fact I believe that with some people it's better to S/N.

It is my personal believe that I won't have my dogs cut open just so please the crowd. I live in the US for not even a year. Dec. 1st it'll be one year and I've fostered five dogs in that year, boarded 1.
I was told by rescue people that I am the problem that so many dogs sit in shelters because I buy from breeders and don't s/n.

It goes both way. I never said that people who do S/N are irresponsible, since when is that the case? Usually it's the other way around that you get yelled at because you don't do it.

Yes, I did say cut open because my bitch was cut open because that is exactly what they do. And I will not have an absolutely healthy dog put under sedation and then cut open just because that is what everybody expects you to do.

 

[Dainerra]

I think it comes down to this. People who consider themselves "responsible," who go to the vet, seek out good breeders, etc will spay/neuter their dogs. Why? because that is what they are encouraged to do and believe is right. They are just average people, though, who don't LIVE dogs. A dog is a dog, even though they love them. COULD they handle an intact dog and put in the extra work? Yes, but they don't want to. I don't think that there is anything wrong with that.

In my entire life I can count on 1 hand the number of dogs I've came across that accidentally slipped out or gotten lost. In the 6 years I've lived here, there has been ONE!!! out of dozens of dogs. The owner was having some remodeling done and left her with a friend. The wife of the friend just let the dog out tied to a rope and she took off. The guy was frantic and found her at my house a few hours later.

The rest of the dogs? They are chronic roamers. It's the country, so everyone thinks dogs should be free. Add in no leash law and you have dogs all over. To those people, dogs are dogs. They roam, they get pregnant, they get run over, they die, you get a new one. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people fall somewhere along that range.

IF you can handle it, then keep your animals intact. If you want to spay/neuter because you are worried or even just because you don't want to deal with it, that's fine too. But, for the majority of the public, spay/neuter is the way to go. Why? because, sadly, they just don't KNOW enough or CARE to know how to keep their dogs from getting pregnant or impregnating someone else's. When Freya was in heat, my yard was dog central. They were climbing the fence, jumping on the windows, crowding my front door. If I hadn't blocked up the doggie door to keep her from slipping out unnoticed, I can guarantee that they would have been in my house!

I think it depends on where you live and what you know. Many of you describe neighborhoods where the people are generally responsible. They keep their dogs home and roaming dogs are pretty uncommon. Just this morning, I have seen 5 roaming dogs. They live in the trailer park across the street. There are 2 more dead in the highway within sight of my house. Counting up the ones I know and see on a regular basis, there are about 10. Well, 2 less now, but they will be replaced soon as there is a litter expected any day now across the street. 3rd one this year.

So, for me, having an intact girl is more than me just keeping her inside and under my watchful eye. Every potty trip was like running a gauntlet, complete with armed guards and lookouts. It wasn't just a convenience for me, it was a matter of sanity. I didn't know if I would be able to keep her safe for the rest of her life.

 

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

I live for my dogs, I do anything for them, and CHOOSE to spay and neuter them because I feel that is best for them. I don't think it's a lesser choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer
What gets to me about the spay/neuter issue is that people cannot just have an opinion. Everyone is either right or wrong. If we all give our opinions, and some of those are different than other people's opinions, then that person MUST come on and reinforce their position, and say over and again their position.

It is a choice.

I will fight that it remain a choice.

What people choose depends on their situation, personality, etc.

Alexandria610:

I haven't really read much of this thread, but this definitely caught my eye. I couldn't agree more with you. There have been a few instances where I've told my opinion on spaying/neutering, and while I have some people agree that my opinion is indeed my opinion, and that they may or may not agree with it, I have had one too many jump on me and tell me that spaying/neutering my pet is horrible and wrong and that, in conclusion from these words about my opinion, I must be a horrible pet owner.

I think it is very important that each and every person get the chance to make his/her decision in the matter. Do what you believe to be best, do what is best by your pet and his/her situations, and talk to your vet/breeder/handlers/competitors, etc. etc. in the dog world (as well as the cat world).

But yes, to shorten all of that, I agree whole-heartedly with your statement.

 

[Emoore]

So I have a question. If you don't believe in cutting up your dog because of what might happen-- a very compelling argument-- would you do a gastropexy on a dog with a family history of dying young from D&V?

This is an honest question. I was planning on doing Kopper's gastropexy and neuter at the same time, between 18-24 months, but the argument for not doing surgery to prevent what might happen is a compelling one.

 

[msvette2u]

This is one of the best posts I've seen on this topic.
Here in our area we are also very rural. We (our rescue) has cleaned up more than one property, in fact...I'm thinking a couple per year (4yrs. of rescue) with basically a pack of feral dogs living on it.
And like your area, people let their dogs wander and they are intact.
Rather like feral cat communities, someone will invariably start feeding a dog, then it becomes two, then sooner or later you have puppies.
These puppies grow up with minimal contact and breed with each other and soon you have huge issues on your hands.
When we go there, we end up euthanizing most the adult dogs, a litter or two of puppies may be able to be saved but often the dogs over 6mos. are goners.
And the reasons giving for not altering the dogs? Not money. It's around $90-100 to spay a female at most vet clinics here.
It's because "the last time I got one spayed it got ran over".

But chronic roamers? Yep. Got 'em. And what's worse many of them are such awful mixes they won't even propagate "cute" puppies that will make suitable pets.

Veterinarians are correct to encourage neutering as stated below, and the 'general public' is correct to s/n whenever possible.

I think it comes down to this. People who consider themselves "responsible," who go to the vet, seek out good breeders, etc will spay/neuter their dogs. Why? because that is what they are encouraged to do and believe is right. They are just average people, though, who don't LIVE dogs. A dog is a dog, even though they love them. COULD they handle an intact dog and put in the extra work? Yes, but they don't want to. I don't think that there is anything wrong with that.

In my entire life I can count on 1 hand the number of dogs I've came across that accidentally slipped out or gotten lost. In the 6 years I've lived here, there has been ONE!!! out of dozens of dogs. The owner was having some remodeling done and left her with a friend. The wife of the friend just let the dog out tied to a rope and she took off. The guy was frantic and found her at my house a few hours later.

The rest of the dogs? They are chronic roamers. It's the country, so everyone thinks dogs should be free. Add in no leash law and you have dogs all over. To those people, dogs are dogs. They roam, they get pregnant, they get run over, they die, you get a new one. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people fall somewhere along that range.

IF you can handle it, then keep your animals intact. If you want to spay/neuter because you are worried or even just because you don't want to deal with it, that's fine too. But, for the majority of the public, spay/neuter is the way to go. Why? because, sadly, they just don't KNOW enough or CARE to know how to keep their dogs from getting pregnant or impregnating someone else's. When Freya was in heat, my yard was dog central. They were climbing the fence, jumping on the windows, crowding my front door. If I hadn't blocked up the doggie door to keep her from slipping out unnoticed, I can guarantee that they would have been in my house!

I think it depends on where you live and what you know. Many of you describe neighborhoods where the people are generally responsible. They keep their dogs home and roaming dogs are pretty uncommon. Just this morning, I have seen 5 roaming dogs. They live in the trailer park across the street. There are 2 more dead in the highway within sight of my house. Counting up the ones I know and see on a regular basis, there are about 10. Well, 2 less now, but they will be replaced soon as there is a litter expected any day now across the street. 3rd one this year.

So, for me, having an intact girl is more than me just keeping her inside and under my watchful eye. Every potty trip was like running a gauntlet, complete with armed guards and lookouts. It wasn't just a convenience for me, it was a matter of sanity. I didn't know if I would be able to keep her safe for the rest of her life.

 

[Mrs.K]

So I have a question. If you don't believe in cutting up your dog because of what might happen-- a very compelling argument-- would you do a gastropexy on a dog with a family history of dying young from D&V?

This is an honest question. I was planning on doing Kopper's gastropexy and neuter at the same time, between 18-24 months, but the argument for not doing surgery to prevent what might happen is a compelling one.

Honestly, we just never had to do any of that. In 30 years of dog breeding we had on bloat and two dogs with pyometra (one of which was Zensi).

We overall have healthy dogs. Yeah, HD here and there but other than that always healthy and no cancer or anything degenerative.... so I don't even think about stuff like that. It's just not even in the picture.

 

[lhczth]

Emoore, if I already had my dog under anesthesia for a neuter I would have the gastroplexy done if there is a history of torsion. I would not have it done just to have it done and believe it shouldn't be done as a preventative in a breeding animal.

IMO a responsible owner is one that does what is best for their situation and the well being of their dogs. For some that means spay/neuter. For others that means leaving their dogs intact. This should be a choice of each owner and not something that is forced on people through guilt or laws.

Though Selzer's comments and opinions about s/n are a bit over the top and too blunt even for me I understand why she feels this way. At no time have I ever seen people trying to force others to keep all of their dogs intact. I have never seen laws being proposed to force mandatory intact dogs. I have never seen anyone attacked for not having testicles on their male dog. There is no agenda out there to force people to keep their dogs intact.

 

[Mrs.K]

Emoore, if I already had my dog under anesthesia for a neuter I would have the gastroplexy done if there is a history of torsion. I would not have it done just to have it done and believe it shouldn't be done as a preventative in a breeding animal.

IMO a responsible owner is one that does what is best for their situation and the well being of their dogs. For some that means spay/neuter. For others that means leaving their dogs intact. This should be a choice of each owner and not something that is forced on people through guilt or laws.

Though Selzer's comments and opinions about s/n are a bit over the top and too blunt even for me I understand why she feels this way. At no time have I ever seen people trying to force others to keep all of their dogs intact. I have never seen laws being proposed to force mandatory intact dogs. I have never seen anyone attacked for not having testicles on their male dog. There is no agenda out there to force people to keep their dogs intact.

Couldn't agree more with you on that. :thumbup:

There are extremes on both sides. However, live and let live. If you s/n it's your decision and if I don't, it's mine and we should respect each others choice.

 

[Emoore]

Emoore, if I already had my dog under anesthesia for a neuter I would have the gastroplexy done if there is a history of torsion. I would not have it done just to have it done and believe it shouldn't be done as a preventative in a breeding animal.

I agree it should not be done as a preventative for a breeding animal. Not planning to breed my dog. I'm just trying to decide-- neuter and gastropexy, or no neuter and no gastropexy? If I did one I'd do both. His sire died of D&V at 5 years old and that dog's paternal uncle did as well.

 

[GatorDog]

I have not neutered my male because we currently work in Schutzhund and he has presented me with no other reason to do the surgery. The majority of my close friends and fellow Schutzhund club members all have intact female dogs, so Aiden must just be used to it buy now because honestly he couldn't care less about a female in heat, or ay females in general. He actually ran his first real Schutzhund trial as a "dummy dog" with a female in heat going for her BH at the same time. His behavior is just as any neutered male dogs that I know. I have had ongoing complications due to my female's spay, so this has also held me off on neutering Aiden for now.

That said, at the first sign of any behavioral or physical health problems, I would have the surgery done if it would possibly help correct the problems.

 

[msvette2u]

Neuter can also prevent some health issues from occurring, Emoore, the older the dog gets. If it was my dog I'd do both together.

Just...because it's gotten so confusing (heh) I think it's people's right to keep their dogs intact. But they must know their situation. Biological drives to procreate are probably the strongest drive in a dog (even overriding training, etc.).

That's why, when I see people, newbies, come on this message board, asking when to s/n because "their vet said it's good/okay to do at 5-6mos", I shudder when some of the anti-s/n folks get all up in arms and state it's best to wait until age 2. Sure, it might be, in some cases, but these newbies to the forum, you don't even know if they have a fenced yard! You don't know if they're responsible enough to wait until age 2 or beyond to s/n. At the very least, you ought to learn more about them and their situation, and actually, if their vet recommended it, maybe the vet knows something you don't about the dog and it's living situation.

 

[krystyne73]

I have always S/N my pets as soon as I could but tried not spaying Sasha. I was put off by the mess and couldn't handle it. Also my Great Dane is on the small side and I can't help but think it had to do with the early snip.

One day I plan on getting another male and I might try holding off on neutering him until he is a few years old. I will worry about the roaming issue.

I am in no way interested in adding to the puppy crisis though.