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You don't have to linebreed to get consistency. You do have to know the dogs in the pedigrees and what they bring to the table AND have an honest evaluation of the dogs in front of you by someone skilled and experienced to do so.

eh, maybe kinda sorta technically, but that's really not a recipe for success. More than one per litter my be deemed suitable for different deployments; but you'll get actual repeatable consistency via recombination (backcrosses).

that's just a universal truth throughout the agriculture spectrum

It has been tried many times. If it were producing anything worth while, it would probably be a lot more common.

I think as far as simply crossing gsd x bsd (aka "terminal sire") BH has to be correct. I mean there's a best in every litter, sure; but you wanna raise a whole litter just to sell DOD that one? Far more efficient to backcross and find matings which yield multiple get. See? so the idea is to boil that "big DOD formula" down as best you can, and use it to your advantage. Not much different than purebreeding, really.

just as a point of fact, MAWL is actually a Carpathian Countess. I did her genealogy.

yes you are. Stop it.

 

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Berno tell me about this protection/bitework imprinting you do. What’s your success rate. I always thought imprinting was something for livestock guarding. Also what’s Igor bite like? Do you have any plans to actually work him, or just produce mutts?

 

Do you have any plans to actually work him, or just produce mutts?

I like to inbreed, BH, and I don't think purebred gsd will stand much of that, so prolly just mutts for me We'll see? the berno forumla is really simple. Inbreed too far, then take a step back.

DOB like a week ago? I know I wrote it down somewhere? imprinting begins @ wean, VPAT scheduled appx jan 2 (subtract 49 days = DOB)

 

MAWL is from the mountains?

 

I'm not allowed to talk about it. She put a gag order on me.

 

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There is no DoD formula for crosses. They don't do it. They rarely get a cross that passes testing and enters service. They come from Holland.

Most are very aggressive and are not suited for civilian life.

 

ok so, little confusing, I keep jumping from me and my muttpups to talking about procurement and back

OBVIOUSLY never the twain' shall meet .

nevertheless the basic principles of rational breeding apply

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Berno you start the strangest conversations and discuss the most bizarre things. It's highly entertaining when I'm bored, but I have to ask do you even like dogs? At all? We already know you dislike German Shepherds, and I think little Igor needs to come cuddle on my couch.
I have a couch now! Sort of. Well a cheap futon. Close enough.
What I don't have is a "Y" key on my laptop. Shadow was doing some research and broke it so every time I type y I have to wiggle the key around to make it work. Very annoying. But yes, Igor needs to come get some mama cuddles.

 

Not many American breeders have a set up to consistently supply dogs to the military. If they want a system to produce home grown Military dogs outside of what they have at lack land, they need to set up something like the KNPV.

 

just between you and I, BH supplying the military is way beyond the scope of my expertise

 

Beyond mine too, I’m kinda maxed out at 2.

 

we'll see what kinda grips I can get out of these frosty little muttcicles in a few weeks

?

 

"After the second world war there was definitely a need for some fresh blood, and dogs of unknown background, along with some Belgian Malinois, were suggested for the shorthaired version, and Tervurens for the longhair. One thing was for sure however, nobody had any desire to breed to German Shepherds again since that little episode before the first world war had taken several years to straighten back out."
This quote is in reference to the early days of the Dutch Shepherd when DS's, Mals and GSDs were cross bred to. Another article I read said that crossing DS's/Mals to GSDs was a disaster.

 

"After World War I and World War II, the numbers of many dogs including the Dutch Shepherd were low. As a result, the breed was again crossed with Belgium Shepherds to help increase the population in a healthy manner. Although some crosses were again made with German Shepherds, they did not work well and were eventually abandoned. Over the next century, breeders refined and and developed the Dutch Shepherd breed into what you see today."

 

Berno.

Gotta ask.

Are you more inclined to hide a needle in a haystack or would you build a haystack around a needle?

 

Are you more inclined to hide a needle in a haystack or would you build a haystack around a needle?

the more you recombine (inbreed/linebreed) the more needles you get

I read all the posts and the only thing that I want to know is how do you pick your own puppy out of a litter? From my limited experience with dealing with breeders is that they want to match the dog up according to your needs and lifestyle.

some breeders actually know what they're doing with that...

Like Chip said earlier, I'm not an expert, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night. Actually I slept in the truck out back Winners gave a pretty good answer top page one. Personally I put a little more emphasis on prey and a little less on food drive, but he's the expert. I can't train my way out of a wet paper bag. For me it's as simple as either a dog wants to or it don't, and I don't waste much time with the ones that don't.

Please continue, Chip.

 

I read all the posts and the only thing that I want to know is how do you pick your own puppy out of a litter? From my limited experience with dealing with breeders is that they want to match the dog up according to your needs and lifestyle.

 

You are putting the cart before the horse. You need to understand what a real protection dog is and if that is what you want and if you can handler the dog, which I doubt or you would not be asking this question. Then you need to learn about dogs/lines that tend to produce the type of dog you are looking for. Then you have to find a breeder willing to sell you the type of pup you are looking for. I would try to find a competent PP dog trainer, and good luck with that. A good one will know where you can probably find a candidate. But if you have little to no experience, this is probably not the dog for you.

 

before I forget again, a highly respected source casually mentioned in passing recently that bad guys don't respect little private sector mals all that much. Now that's just one expert's opinion, so, not necessarily a "universal truth."

just something to consider when comparing flashy little bsd apples to BIG BAD gsd oranges...

 

Does your “highly respected source” sell GSDs? There are plenty of medium/upper medium size Mals that are man stoppers.

 

A child might want to learn to read but if you don’t teach them how they won’t.

 

tarzan taught himself to read. Might be a good name for a pup? anyway I'm seriously trying to think of a good breed to cross now. I'd just as soon leave the bsd/dsd stuff to the experts. My kid's convinced she see's enough diversity between little igor and the longcoats. If she invests in one we'll give that a go. Personally I'd rather reach a little further outside the box because doing so MAY allow me to backbreed a little tighter.

anybody got any thoughts on something like this? anybody ever seen a gsd cross?

bear in mind I'm not looking to set the world on fire here

I'm only batting ideas around...

 

I thought you were closing a pup from a local breeder

 

🤣🤣🤣 What do you think he is? Your friendly neighborhood dog dealer.

 

I'll have access to a cross. I'm just not sure if I want to mess with it? I mean they do share haplotype signatures, but I don't know? I'm really kinda diggin' on the maremma's rusticity, and my gut says stick with pure alpine genetics. No hungarian, no spanish, and none of that flatlander stuff.

 

you know it's like that other cross I did. I mean that was a cool dog. WEIRD! but cool. I still have dibs on my pick female, but there's probably hungarian and poodle and who knows what all way back in that ped? so I'm a little leery about that introgression. You get whatever you inbreed, and stuff like that begins to emerge when the peds line up.

if I were a dog dealer I'd be lurkin' w/ all the other dog dealers. But by all means, you gents have a few laughs on me. I'll be swingin' muttpups on my lucky 'ol beansack soon enough here