Happy, open and confident in new places. Food drive. Interest in me and responds to puppy puppy noises. Some prey drive but that's not terribly important at that age as it can come in later. Shield K9 has a good video on YouTube.

 

 

 

I don't think you can. Some people say they can tell pretty much what the temperament of a pup will be at 8 weeks of age. I don't believe that is at all true and puppies can change quite a bit from 8 weeks to 5 months for example. You can rule out very young pups as candidates. Then you have define what you want to see in a PP dog and have to find a good trainer to train the dog for PP which are as common as hens' teeth.

 

The question referred to potential protection candidates. I think you can find puppies that are potential candidates. What that dog will be in 2 years is a crap shoot. You just stack the odds in your favor.

 

Agreed. Toughest pup in the lot and grows to be aggresive sounding and scares everyone that dares come come close. Then one person does come close and challenges the noisy dog - calls the bluff. Then the dog is uncertain and is looking for dad or mom for backup. I had two females that were outgoing - not afraid of anything but when they were 2 years old they were both the kindest most gentile dogs you could ever encounter and not a sign of what you would want for a Schutzhund candidate.

 

If I'm in need of a PPD, I'm not starting with a puppy. I'd go to a broker and test green dogs until I found what I wanted or I would buy a finished dog that met my standards and that connected with me.

 

well, we can't all be you, Chief some of us have to shop local.

 

when shopping 7 - 8 week old litters for a potential protection candidate, what should one look for? In an individual pup, I mean. Obviously start with reputable breeder and proven working ped.

but when it comes time to pick one pup out of a good litter, what should one look for?

My boss always said pick the one with attitude, because you can train it down but you can't train it up.
By attitude he referred to confidence and a bit of swagger. The ones that will push their own limits and yours as well.

 

I would look for a dog with strong nerves and a willingness to bite. You don’t need over the top prey drive. You probably don’t need them to show much at all early on. I find it easier to work with and train a young dog in bite work that has some good prey drive. You want the nerves for one, so you don’t end up with a dog that can be run before the fight even begins. I don’t want them to be sound sensitive. I don’t want them to breakdown over new, foreign surfaces. I really like seeing their reactions to a metal grate surface. I don’t want to see them be fearful of unknown people either.

 

I kinda think maybe I've used the term "prey drive" incorrectly around here? I say this because recently it occurred to me I got no use for a 7 week ball chaser in and of itself. I'm FAR more interested in the ones that bring it back to me. Genetic obedience?

as for sound sensitivity, dogs are like people. Those who weren't raised around guns naturally get a little nervous. If you wait until after the schH III to fire your 12 gauge over your dog, don't be surprised when he reacts. I call that discernment. I expose a litter up to vpat, but it's your job to follow through after that.

 

I'm just sayin' think local litters. That's the question.

 

I would also consider the parents. I want to see parents that are able to bring it.

 

Berno, define protection dog.

 

for the purpose of this discussion, let's say schH and/or psa

if only for the sake of "orthodoxy"

Protection Sports Association Home - PSAK9-AS

WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? Join or Renew PSA Today Mission of the Protection Sports Association (PSA) The Mission of the Protection Sports Association (PSA)

psak9-as.org

 

Ok. So a sport dog. That changes things. I have never owned or handled one. Lol. So I will read and hush.

 

Just curious what happened to the pup who had been in your posts from last spring? Is he still in the picture?

Would this be an additional dog?

 

actually this is just theoretical so, take your choice. For the sake of this discussion it doesn't matter

 

Here is a link about PP for what it is worth. When people make their only income from dogs, sometimes you have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

I have never trained a dog for sport. Or lived with one. I cannot elaborate on the criteria needed for such a venue.
When I was raising litters for work I was looking for the pups that best balanced a natural affinity for humans with a refusal to give up or take no for an answer. I wanted the ballsy little Hellraiser that would try anything once.
I wanted the pup that would fall off the first step and come back with a vengeance. And do that a hundred times! I looked for the first one to climb out of the box, I liked the ones that you had to wonder if they would survive another day. I am looking for bitey, fighty little demons that seek out human companionship.
Intelligence is also a key, because an actual PPD is going to need a high level of discernment and they can't be one without the other. I like the break in the fence test. A smart pup will find it to get to you. The rest will sit there and cry.

 

I like the break in the fence test. A smart pup will find it to get to you. The rest will sit there and cry.

How about if they go through a screen to get to you without looking for the opening? Because that’s what mine did. He wasn’t going to waste time looking for a break. 😂😂😂

 

Just get a really sharp and fearful dog 😂

 

I watched this video for the second time and I think it is filled with good information and reflects how high level selection of dogs and correct training are so important. IMO, the vast majority of people starting or involved with sport or PP are vastly lacking in knowledge and availability of quality training. I read about people wanting to do PP training with their dogs and they just don’t get it. Really good dogs are hard to find.

 

Chip, I think he raises a ton of good points. A protection dog is a different dog then a pet or a sport dog and I think people, a lot of people, incorrectly assume that a PPD should be really aggressive when the opposite is true.

 

Chip I don't disagree at all, but you have a lot of experience, and according to you, your current situation is practically "meant to be." So it's kind of a perspective thing, or maybe even like a league thing. The op was really meant as more of like an "entry level" human trying to select a "first time" local pup to train for whatever title is easiest to earn @ a typical club. Think "training wheels" here we're not shopping a new dog for el chapo, and we're not deploying to syria.

 

People are getting misinformation. I saw a video today that after the first mechanical vote counter was used, elections have been rigged ever since. Different topic but same principle. The way we think the world works has nothing to do with how the world works. The dog world is just a microcosm of that hypothesis.

 

personally I'm a vpat guy. I don't doubt for a nanosecond the ability of an expert to "freestyle" a better puppy eval. For me vpat works because it's "strictly formulated." I don't doubt for a nanosecond the ability of an expert to "freestyle" judge a protection trial, either; but most carry a clipboard and a pen. Just like me when I vpat

http://siriusdog.com/images/articles/pup-test.pdf

 

Do top tier trainers use VPAT for puppy selection?

 

LOL I asked you first

 

In my experience, no.

 

did you evaluate many 7 week litters for the military?

 

We all handle dogs differently and our issues rub off on our dogs so a good dog for one handler may not be for another.
Berno why do you like the VPAT so much?