I read all seven pages. In addition to the quote from the OP above, she said the pup screamed and howled in the crate for an hour, ran from the garbage cans that the neighbor dragged, moved away from the rattling of the metal bin two times. The pup might be showing improvement but I think the reactions described indicate a nerve issue. She might end up being fine as a pet but I would not keep this pup. The breeder should have sent the OP some video showing the pup exposed to potentially stressful situations. Wonder why she didn't.

 

"Understand that nerve problems are not fixable. Skittering away from a scary object or noise is not a training problem, it is a temperament problem. With enough training, you could teach a dog to inhibit his response to a particular stimulus, but you will not fix the nerve problem. For example, you could teach a weak dog not to run away from a moving wheelchair. But suppose the wheelchair user dropped a book on the floor. You can be certain the dog would panic all over again. Training can, to an extent, modify specific behaviors, but it cannot change the dog's genetics. Weakness in temperament will always resurface under stress. And it requires stress tests to weed weak nerved dogs out of the gene pool."

 

For the record, I have talked to Christine about a pup and was interested in a breeding, but as I said, I don’t want Anrebri dogs in a pedigree. Doesn’t mean they are crap dogs but to me, increases the odds of nerve issues. The other thing about the OP’s breeding is that there are quite a few dogs whose primary drive is defensive aggression vs. prey. That is not necessarily a bad thing either, but defensive aggression is fear based. It is a double edged sword where some dogs with such genetics will be able to channel their defensive aggression into fight while other lean more toward flight. Not at all knocking Wendelin but they do breed a lot of dogs. I believe she is an honest breeder and would accommodate the OP. With all her recent losses I would hate to see her get a dog that is not a good representative of the breed. I also understand that returning a pup would be another loss but you have to detach and think about it like buying a lemon of a car. Good luck.

 

For the record, I have talked to Christine about a pup and was interested in a breeding, but as I said, I don’t want Anrebri dogs in a pedigree. Doesn’t mean they are crap dogs but to me, increases the odds of nerve issues. The other thing about the OP’s breeding is that there are quite a few dogs whose primary drive is defensive aggression vs. prey. That is not necessarily a bad thing either, but defensive aggression is fear based. It is a double edged sword where some dogs with such genetics will be able to channel their defensive aggression into fight while other lean more toward flight. Not at all knocking Wendelin but they do breed a lot of dogs. I believe she is an honest breeder and would accommodate the OP. With all her recent losses I would hate to see her get a dog that is not a good representative of the breed. I also understand that returning a pup would be another loss but you have to detach and think about it like buying a lemon of a car. Good luck.

The bolded, don't look for Labradors and Goldens. Nothing wrong with suspicion, GSDs cannot protect or guard naturally without it as called for in the breed standard.

 

No matter what drive the dog works in, you want good nerves.

 

A large part of the problem is a combination of a pup that was too young, not given time to deal with leaving the litter, thrown in the deep end with HD and that crazy garbage can training at this young age, locked in a crate away from everyone etc. I would be surprised if a puppy like her would not have been stressed out with a start like this

 

first and foremost I think it's important to listen to your gut about pup. The last thing I'm here to do is talk anyone into keeping a pup they know in their gut they shouldn't. The younger a pup is, the easier to find it a new home. The older a pup gets, the fewer new homes will consider it. Trust your gut.

I haven't read all 7 pages. No idea what your goals are?

but if you're just looking for a solid companion, you can't go wrong with the old scotland yard test.

 

first and foremost I think it's important to listen to your gut about pup. The last thing I'm here to do is talk anyone into keeping a pup they know in their gut they shouldn't. The younger a pup is, the easier to find it a new home. The older a pup gets, the fewer new homes will consider it. Trust your gut.

I haven't read all 7 pages. No idea what your goals are?

but if you're just looking for a solid companion, you can't go wrong with the old scotland yard test.

She's looking for a pet. What does she want with that?

 

just so we're all on the same page, I wouldn't call the pup in the scotland yard video "heavy duty."
I'd call him serviceable.

this looks "heavy duty" to me

 

These pups grow into amazing partners only when you know what you are doing. If not, they become a nightmare and a liability. Deja is 7 years old and still intense. I cannot, and don't want to, imagine what she would have been like with the average pet owner.
Another thought. It is generally advised to give a new dog a 14 day shut down, to get them used to their new home and people, yet what is happening with most new puppies?

 

a 7 or 8 week pup should investigate a clang, retrieve a crumpled paper, and show a little tug

those aren't "extreme" traits at all

 

Your qualifications, especially with working line GSD, to make that determination?

 

you aren't arguing against me, MAWL. You're arguing against scotland yard.

 

I know what I am arguing against and if I posted it, I would get banned.

 

@berno von der seeweise you’ve derailed countless threads, granted, you don’t do it alone, but for once let’s not make this one about you. take the time to read through the thread, yes, all 8 pages - or respectfully bypass it.

 

I think it matters most if OP is happy with her puppy...

not what any of us think an ideal puppy is.

 

I think she's trying to decide and looking for information.

 

I have a simple question. How many times have you heard the advice “pick the shy pup?” I never have. It’s always the opposite.

 

Actually I have heard that a lot, not in regards to picking a dog for sport or work, but for a pet... absolutely I have heard it.

 

I never heard that at all makes no sense. I do not think a shy dog would be good for families at all and would be way to chaotic for them especially a family with young kids or teens. A shy dog would be most comfortable in a quiet recluse type home who leads a not so social life.

 

It sounds like many of those dogs are shy and nervy and that where lies in the problem. A lot of rescue dogs are shy and are projects for many people who adopt them.
A social family with kids gets pretty hectic loud noisy and tons of different people always over. A balanced dog is key for any family.

 

Such a great point Jenny720! Those shy puppies "can" turn out okay, but more frequently are difficult dogs to live with their entire lives!

A confident puppy will, with good handling and training, be a confident dog and a great companion.

This puppy shows extreme avoidance of a person not paying any attention to them from 10 or more feet away. All the excuses in the world won't change the fact that this puppy has weak nerves. It WILL be a lifelong project.

 

Yea right, that is not what I read on this forum, it is the bold, outgoing dogs in inexperienced hands that are chewing on the family.

I have NEVER had to lock a nerve bag or timid dog up to let somebody in the house nor have I had one challenge me or another family member.

 

Wow and wow this forum is just a tiny slice of the world. There are plenty of nerve bags that bite their own family memebers despite what you think. I’m not talking about little fearful cockapoos. This is a German shepherd forum. There are plenty of dogs who are in animal shelters not fit for families with kids. A dog who is bred to be aggressive and who is fearful and shy is not a dog I would tell families to look for. You are saying fearful and shy and there is a lot more to those dynamics most certainly.

 

Have you owned even one fear biter, timid dog, or a dog with less than stellar nerves?

 

I know know quite a few as i hav worked in the animal business. I also know many people in the emergency room as well as people who run well respected shelters to know that all shy and fearful dogs are not same and to lump them all as humble, helpless and non aggressive actually recommending them to families is something I would not do. Oh but it is most certainly done.

 

ok...
closing this thread for the night.
@EgansMom take some time to catch up, try not to get overwhelmed and message a Mod to have it reopened if you’d like. hope you’re taking care...