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Please HELP We are DESPERATE, Wound will NOT Heal on Puppy *PICTURES*

153K views 1.1K replies 93 participants last post by  woogyboogy  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi everyone, thank you for taking time to read this.

We have a 5 1/2 month old GSD named Loki, and about 3-4 weeks ago he came up with a small bump on his back, almost like a pimple, about the size of a pea that was slightly raised. We assumed it was an ant bite or something minor. About 2-3 days later we brought him into the vet to get some of his immunizations and we showed the vet this bump. He told us to use Virbac Pyoben Shampoo when we bath him and just keep a close eye on it.

We did and after 5-6 days, it got progressively worse. So we took him in the next week and he put Loki on an oral antibiotic (Ciprofloxacin) for 2 weeks. He was and still is on it for about 6 days and it still had gotten progressively worse, so we took him back the following week, where the vet seemed alot more concerned. He gave Loki an antibiotic shot, and reassured us that this SHOULD fix it.

Well, its been about 4 days since that antibiotic shot, and its STILL getting worse. The entire wound itself is about as round as a baseball, and within that circle there are several sores that are just open and about 1/16th-1/8th deep. One of the small sores will close up and another will open. If you feel the wound, you can actually grab it, the bottom of the wound is hard, it's hard to describe :confused: .

I have been doing a lot of research and I just discovered "Manuka Honey" yesterday, people say it works miracles for wounds, and we started applying that last night and this morning, it is basically our final hope. We haven't told the vet about the Manuka Honey yet, and the last time we were in there was 4 days ago for the antibiotic shot. I've applied the Manuka Honey to the wound, then put a non adhesive dressing over it and then wrap it with an ace bandage.

The vet said if this antibiotic shot doesn't fix it, he will have to put him under and surgically remove the wound. :confused::mad::(

He is eating, and drinking fine. We feed him Blue Large Breed Puppy food, and he eats 3 cups per day, morning, afternoon, and night. He sleeps from roughly 10pm-6:30am. But he definitely has seemed more "down" with all of this going on, and not as energetic.

Also, once the wound went from a small bump, to an actual open sore, we started applying Iodine swabs, and then Bactroban (Mupirocin) to it (about 2 weeks ago), but that hasn't helped with anything.

Loki will try to lick it, but we pretty much watch him constantly and tell him to "leave it" as soon as we see him try to go for it. Also, we haven't used a cone to prevent him from licking it, the Vet never recommenced it to us.

This is our first dog and my girlfriend and I are extremely stressed, worried, and upset with what he has been going through. If ANYONE can give us some type of input we would greatly appreciate it!

Also, The pictures of his wound are with the Manuka Honey applied to it so that's why it may seem to look wet.

Thanks you all so much!
 

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#776 ·
I'm very happy about the news from the ultrasound and send well wishes for continued speedy healing for your boy :) What a story
 
#792 ·
Hey everyone,

Loki is being his normal self, no signs of anything abnormal. He will receive his 3rd immunotherapy shot a week from tomorrow. However, after talking to Bob Glass, and several others who have experienced Pythiosis before, it is to our advantage to start a 2nd round of the (3) shot immunotherapy, 2 weeks after his final shot of the first round.

Also, I'm still trying to figure out how to get the Pond water tested, but am having no luck...I've literally been on the phone with over 6 different people, and they all tell me they don't do it. The University of Florida used to do it, but apparently they no longer do...We just want to know for a piece of mind.

Of course I will keep everyone updated!

Thanks for all the support!
 
#801 ·
Also, I'm still trying to figure out how to get the Pond water tested, but am having no luck...I've literally been on the phone with over 6 different people, and they all tell me they don't do it. The University of Florida used to do it, but apparently they no longer do...We just want to know for a piece of mind.

Of course I will keep everyone updated!

Thanks for all the support!
We went through our specific county Extension Office. We also spoke to a local Pool service who could send off samples to their lab for testing. It is a little pricey - but to me, worth it.
 
#795 ·
I am thoroughly impressed by the way you've navigated this mess with your guy Loki. You've managed to remain calm and do thorough research, much to Loki's benefit. Hoping for the best. We went through a somewhat similar thing with one of our dogs, when he contracted what was thought to be a fungal infection from digging in dirt. It's difficult, especially when you have to navigate and learn so much. More power to you!
 
#796 ·
glad he is doing well, re: the testing of the pond water...Try a local pool place or you should have businesses that test well water.
 
#809 ·
#807 ·
With Glass, sounds like you have a great advisor on the steps to take for his best chances for success. Gald that Loki is doing will with the vaccines. Normally I would be very vaccine shy, and would wonder under what conditions they do two rounds versus one, but this is such a scary fatal disease, I'm sure that this gives Loki every possible chance.
 
#812 ·
#818 · (Edited)
Hey everyone, just wanted to give a quick update.

Our Vet called us today, and said they she spoke with Dr. Grooters late yesterday about Loki's histopath slides. Dr. Grooters said that it definitely looked like Pythiosis, and then she began to say how we needed to get started on her treatment methods right away. Which our Vet looked into, and lets just say it isn't cheap.:( Either way, we are relieved that Dr. Grooters, and Bob Glass (Both very well educated on Pythiosis) both agreed that it looked like Pythiosis.

Needless to say, we are not going to even consider her options. We are sticking to our gut, and going to go with what we believe it the best hope for Loki.

Loki is going on Friday for his 3rd immunotherapy shot, but we will be starting him on a second round 2 weeks after. Bob Glass said that it is a good idea, and helps "mop" away what the first round missed.

I will keep everyone updated like usual.

Thanks again for all the assistance!
 
#823 ·
Hey everyone, just wanted to give a quick update.

Our Vet called us today, and said they she spoke with Dr. Grooters late yesterday about Loki's histopath slides. Dr. Grooters said that it definitely looked like Pythiosis, and then she began to say how we needed to get started on her treatment methods right away. Which our Vet looked into, and lets just say it isn't cheap.:( Either way, we are relieved that Dr. Grooters, and Bob Glass (Both very well educated on Pythiosis) both agreed that it looked like Pythiosis.

Needless to say, we are not going to even consider her options. We are sticking to our gut, and going to go with what we believe it the best hope for Loki.

Loki is going on Friday for his 3rd immunotherapy shot, but we will be starting him on a second round 2 weeks after. Bob Glass said that it is a good idea, and helps "mop" away what the first round missed.
I think it's great that you have further confirmation about the Pythiosis. It's really nice to have a diagnosis that you can hang your hat on. Even if the other treatment is expensive, to me, the success rate is the real clincher (as I think it is for you too).

I was (and still am) critical of your old vet, but it sounds like he did a good job cleaning out the wound, and that is giving Loki a good shot here.

Good luck with the shot tomorrow! Keep a watch on all the shots in case you start seeing more of a reaction (that's just me being paranoid about vaccinations).
 
#821 · (Edited)
Teaming with Microbes won't give you a direct answer , it is after all a book about soil and horticulture . However, whether reading about Pasteur and his rivals Bernard and Bechamp, or more recent rethinking on probiotics , or the horticultural book , or the thread about the vet-baffling skin problem , it comes down to a weakness in the system which has , as the "Microbes" book said , allowed a mafia of pathogens to prosper . The answer is about the terrain, the environment , whether stable and resistant , or destabilized and vulnerable.

So how does one out compete ?

If it were intestinal antibiotic caused unbalance the answer would be probiotics to establish a beneficial stabilized gut flora .
If it were stressed grasses , plants, chance the environment , the pH , the nutrition of the soil - feed the soil , not the plant .
If it were insects feed the soil, to feed the plant . In a companion book to "Microbes" "Teaming with Nutrients" there is proof that strong healthy plants resist aphids and slugs and pests.
Strong healthy trees do not attract fungus and so on.



I wondered about the exposure and resistance (or not) that working field Labs, retrievers and poodles would experience . Came across this information packed forum/site Please participate in New Pythiosis Study!!!!

some information might surprise you. Dogs with exposure indicated by antibodies , that are well and healthy .

Bob Glass is or was (older site) a participant - quote from the site

"Hello, I am Bob Glass, the owner of Pan American Vet Labs. With Tammy's help we are conducting the study which is the subject of this discussion. I will try to answer some of the questions from this thread:

First let me say that Tammy has done a great job in answering your questions and I can't add a lot to most of what she has posted.

The study:
We will try to test a minimum of 200 Retriever breed dogs who active in hunting/filed trials. These dogs are more likely to be exposed to Pythium than "house" or "lap" dogs and should give us more information.
Animals that are infected with Pythium develop antibodies and we think animals that come in contct with Pythim but do not develop an enduring infection will also develop antidoies to the organism. The initial test for anti Pythium antibodies will be an "ELISA" test done at our lab in Hutto, Tx. This is a very sensitive test that was developed at our lab with input from Dr. Leo Mendoza at Michagan State Un. (MSU) and researchers from the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta GA. Samples that warrant further study (ie test positive) will go to MSU to Dr. Mendoza's lab for Western Blot anaylysis to further characterize the antibodies of interest.
We hope to answer several questions with the data from this study and with the limited data (35 samples) that we so far we are asking even more questions.
1. Are dogs whom frequently have contact with "dirty" water more likely to have antibodiy to Pythium?
2. Are there geographic areas that pose a higher risk of exposure to Pythium?
3. Can we correlate presence of antibody with a history of transient/mild symptoms of Pythium infection?
4. Is the antibody in "exposed but not ill" dogs significantly different from the antibody in infected dogs?
5. Is the antibody in "exposed but not ill" dogs protective against future Pythium infections?
5. Does the antibody in "exposed but not ill" (EBNI) dogs offer a clue in the development of a vaccine which will prevent Pythium infection?

As you can see we have more questions than answers, but we are excited about the "answers" that this study may bring.


We do not think that Pythium infection is genetically related. While it is true that some breeds/blood lines have a "weaker" immune system this is not specific for Pythium infection but rather for any infectious disease. I also do not think that Pythium infection is an indicator a "weak" immune system.

We do not (yet) know if the antibodies we are seeing in EBNI dogs is protective. We have some data and anecdotal evidence that horses vaccinated with our Pythium Immuntherapy product may be protective for +/-1 year. We do not have enough data to be sure of this "protection" and continue to collect data on this question and we have essentially no data relative to protective antibodies in dogs.

Relative to Pythium in ponds or vegetation near water. It is important to remember that there are several varieties of Pythium but only Pythium insidiosum is known to infect animals. so even if you could look at a plant and see the Pythium (which you can't) you could not tell if it was P. insidiosum or another Pythium. There is a test for Pythium in plants/water available from Neogen Corp's European Office. Unfortunaly this test does not differentiate between P. insidiosum and other Pythiums.

I hope this answers some of your questions but please feel free to post any questions here or send to me direct by email. I apologize for missing some telephone calls, I have several facilties at different sites and am on the move most all the time. I can usually be reached in my office between 7 and 9 AM and if I am not in the office the phone should ring through to my cell. I check my email frequently throughout the day and will answer any questions as quickly as possible.

I encourage every one to think seriously about particiapating in the study. With your help we hope to be able to make important and lifesaving progress in develoing the tools to fight this disease.

Bglass

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#822 ·
getting more esoteric --- If I were to have a line of questioning , my mentors would fire back a question for me to go hunt search for answers --- Socratic method of learning and teaching . Although, I sneakily suspect they don't have answers either and so are interested to see what I may find -- . The last one I had I was sent to look into pleomorphism , the ability of bacterial organisms to adapt to their environment by changing (pleo or plastic) bodies (morph) .
Always the environment or the terrain .
 
#824 ·
Thanks Lisa, and Carmspack.

We got the 3rd immunotherapy shot yesterday, and Loki did really well. No reaction or side effects at all. He is doing fine today and hopefully we can put all of this behind us soon.

We are ordering a 2nd round the the immunotherapy on Monday so that will be another round of 3 shots.

Thank you everyone for the support!
 
#829 ·
Thank you so much, we are starting to feel somewhat comfortable know that his first round of 3 injections have been finished.

My co-worker in NYS is waiting on test results from Cornell. Young dog's bones are disintegrating. It's either this or bone cancer. His GF, who owns the dog, is devastated. If it's positive that puts this awful stuff in the PA/Ohio/NY area. :(
I can't believe that! I really hope it comes back negative for Pythiosis, and they can get a proper diagnosis. That is so sad to hear.:(