Have ypu ever seen a PUREBRED gsd that is 35% white, and the rest is black and tan, and has mo white gsd in its ancestry
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Phenom Shepherds - Genetic Panda Info
?Phenom Shepherds - Genetic Panda Info
Sherryn0909
PANDA shepherd?????
Have ypu ever seen a PUREBRED gsd that is 35% white, and the rest is black and tan, and has mo white gsd in its ancestry?
Phenom Shepherds - Genetic Panda Info
?Phenom Shepherds - Genetic Panda Info
When they created the cutesy name they opened themselves up for the criticism. They are a GSD of an unusual tri-type coloring. Panda Shepherd just comes across as a cute marketing tool just like all the idiot 'doodles" and other cross breed names that have been created. When I see that name my first reaction is $$$$$$$$$$$.
If you think about it, though, all the colors/patterns have different names. White, liver, blue, bi-color, black/red, black/tan, sable, blanket back, etc....
But they are not cutesy names. They depict the color. Panda (which they look nothing like) is cutesy.
It is documented? Fine. But 15 years ago, I would not trust DNA, and I really didn't think that DNA for determining breed was all that accurate. So a breeder witnessed these pups whelped, but a litter can have more than one sire. And more like, the sire or dam of the litter looked all GSD, and the breeders probably believe that he was all GSD, but isn't it possible that one or the other was 1/4 or 1/8 something else, like husky. Someone somewhere did not realize some mangy, rangy husky or border collie mix bred their bred female, and out of the litter, a pup that looks all GSD is actually 1/2 a mixture.
I am just thinking that as possible as it is for this to just happen, like the big bang, it is also possible that someone somewhere was not so careful as they thought with their bitch. I just am not convinced that this is a purebred GSD.
I am surprised they are not calling them pie-bald. I do not like the look. But I don't like culling for aesthetics either. I just would not breed for it, as they are.
The brindle used to be a color in GSDs and it is no longer. I would think that if this color just cropped up out of nothingness, some dogs somewhere would just come out brindle too.
I am just thinking that as possible as it is for this to just happen, like the big bang, it is also possible that someone somewhere was not so careful as they thought with their bitch. I just am not convinced that this is a purebred GSD.
I am surprised they are not calling them pie-bald. I do not like the look. But I don't like culling for aesthetics either. I just would not breed for it, as they are.
The brindle used to be a color in GSDs and it is no longer. I would think that if this color just cropped up out of nothingness, some dogs somewhere would just come out brindle too.
Sue,
The dogs were bred on the premises of the breeder.....both parents were her dogs.
There was no "outside" mongrel, huskie or phantom stud that shared his sperm in making of the litter. This was a 40acre homestead and ALL dogs were in indoor/outdoor 25 ft runs. The property was also fenced in.
Believe it or not....the litter was purebred, and from the parents she owned....
Culling happened much more yester-year than it does today...but you will find, from talking to breeders of yester-year, that there are MANY things that are kept as skeletons in the closet.
One would be surprised to know how many "imperfections" happen when breeding......that's the reality of *genes*, both recessive, dominant and dormant....they DO present themselves from time to time...
The dogs were bred on the premises of the breeder.....both parents were her dogs.
There was no "outside" mongrel, huskie or phantom stud that shared his sperm in making of the litter. This was a 40acre homestead and ALL dogs were in indoor/outdoor 25 ft runs. The property was also fenced in.
Believe it or not....the litter was purebred, and from the parents she owned....
Culling happened much more yester-year than it does today...but you will find, from talking to breeders of yester-year, that there are MANY things that are kept as skeletons in the closet.
One would be surprised to know how many "imperfections" happen when breeding......that's the reality of *genes*, both recessive, dominant and dormant....they DO present themselves from time to time...
The parents of the litter were tested through DNA. This tests works. It is why sires utilized a certain amount must submit DNA to AKC. The parents of all the black and tan pups were also the parents of the tri-colored one in the litter. This type of DNA test determines parenatge. It is why a litter can have two sires and then the testing used to sort out whose is whose.
The Pandas are a GSD of a different color only. Genes are fun!
The Pandas are a GSD of a different color only. Genes are fun!
Linda Shaw was fairly interested in the panda , a name which I think is awful , in that it is cutesy . Really it is a PIED or PIEBALD .
Apparently she visited the Ontario breeder who found Pied pups in her litter and confirmed that DNA "paternity" test was done , there was one sire , and the sire of the Pied (panda) was the sire of note . No mystery misters.
Page 126 - after von Stephanitz has written about "the foundation colour is a wolf-like dark shading on a grey-yellow grond from which all other colours, from the pure white, (which, however, is very seldom seen in smooth-haired dogs , and is then not beautiful), up to uniform black. have been develope. the most frequent are the wolf-colourd, that is to say, the sandy or the sandy grey, or pale red to brown coloured dogs with regular, mostly light tan points on the head and limbs; one can also see black and sandy coloured dogs i.e. black doges wiht the same markings , but mostly a more pronouned darker tan to reddish brown colouring.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx Dapple blue fellows were formerly often met with among the working dogs in nortern and central Germany, expecially BLUE or RED WITH WHITE PATCHES. In Brunswick some sheep farmers, have a specila liking for dogs with a particular tiger-spotted coat. These dogs had dark brown ot black spots or larger splashes on a lighter background .
Illustration page 129 figure 107 a smooth haired dog from Brunswick - flaked blue grey -- 128 long ocat shepherd dog from Saxony - flaked blue-grey. Page 130 another picture of "spotted "
Apparently she visited the Ontario breeder who found Pied pups in her litter and confirmed that DNA "paternity" test was done , there was one sire , and the sire of the Pied (panda) was the sire of note . No mystery misters.
Page 126 - after von Stephanitz has written about "the foundation colour is a wolf-like dark shading on a grey-yellow grond from which all other colours, from the pure white, (which, however, is very seldom seen in smooth-haired dogs , and is then not beautiful), up to uniform black. have been develope. the most frequent are the wolf-colourd, that is to say, the sandy or the sandy grey, or pale red to brown coloured dogs with regular, mostly light tan points on the head and limbs; one can also see black and sandy coloured dogs i.e. black doges wiht the same markings , but mostly a more pronouned darker tan to reddish brown colouring.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx Dapple blue fellows were formerly often met with among the working dogs in nortern and central Germany, expecially BLUE or RED WITH WHITE PATCHES. In Brunswick some sheep farmers, have a specila liking for dogs with a particular tiger-spotted coat. These dogs had dark brown ot black spots or larger splashes on a lighter background .
Illustration page 129 figure 107 a smooth haired dog from Brunswick - flaked blue grey -- 128 long ocat shepherd dog from Saxony - flaked blue-grey. Page 130 another picture of "spotted "
this was interesting Frankenhaus German Shepherds - Color Genetics
When the GSD was made into one unified breed , as per any public registry dog, standards were set that went out side of function , performance and into the cosmetic . Although v Stephanitz said there is no good dog with a bad colour , it was clear that certain variations of colour were to be discriminated against, not bred from . These included, white, liver, blue , patterns , merle , even brindle which was continued with a common ancestor to evolve into the Dutch Shepherd.
What is in the genes is not lost , only hidden .
When the GSD was made into one unified breed , as per any public registry dog, standards were set that went out side of function , performance and into the cosmetic . Although v Stephanitz said there is no good dog with a bad colour , it was clear that certain variations of colour were to be discriminated against, not bred from . These included, white, liver, blue , patterns , merle , even brindle which was continued with a common ancestor to evolve into the Dutch Shepherd.
What is in the genes is not lost , only hidden .
Carmen, that's why any serious student of this breed must have this book and have read it.....it opens up a lot of things and clears up many wives tales that have grown with the breed.
A normal German Shepherd is one of the five(?) colors: red, black, sable, tan, etc. Not panda. Panda I consider, as well as white, as a genetic mutation that is not a normal dog. As pretty as they are, pandas are not "real" German shepherds in my book.
LOL how OLD is this thread?!
First, white is not a genetic mutation nor is it a color. It's a whole separate gene that masks the actual genetic color. A white dog is genetically black, black/tan, bicolor or sable with the masking gene.
Panda's are just a mutation on color. It doesn't change their breed.
First, white is not a genetic mutation nor is it a color. It's a whole separate gene that masks the actual genetic color. A white dog is genetically black, black/tan, bicolor or sable with the masking gene.
Panda's are just a mutation on color. It doesn't change their breed.
I just found this one and decided to put my two cents in. Probably more like one cent.
I do think Pandas are genetically German Shepherds, the thing is: some people consider a mutation good to the point where they breed them. I don't think that's the case one bit. I don't think the animal that is mutated should be bred at all to continue the gene that caused the mutation, even if the mutation is just color. No matter how "pretty" it is. Some people have whole kennels full to the brim with panda shepherds. That's like breeding two cow-hocked German shepherds and calling the outcome a "new form" of shepherd. It's just not right.
You can tell I feel quite strongly about this. ?
German shepherds should never be panda, and I would never breed one like some people do.
I do think Pandas are genetically German Shepherds, the thing is: some people consider a mutation good to the point where they breed them. I don't think that's the case one bit. I don't think the animal that is mutated should be bred at all to continue the gene that caused the mutation, even if the mutation is just color. No matter how "pretty" it is. Some people have whole kennels full to the brim with panda shepherds. That's like breeding two cow-hocked German shepherds and calling the outcome a "new form" of shepherd. It's just not right.
You can tell I feel quite strongly about this. ?
German shepherds should never be panda, and I would never breed one like some people do.
@Jax08
it took me one minute to find this. I can't stand places like this. They had a liver/panda shepherd there!!! Livers are considered very bad when it comes to German Shepherds, but you probably already know that.
The Panda German Shepherd
bradfordsk-9corral.com
it took me one minute to find this. I can't stand places like this. They had a liver/panda shepherd there!!!
Livers are considered very bad when it comes to German Shepherds, but you probably already know that.
Why are Livers considered very bad? Yes the color is not in the standard but they do pop up in good litters. Nothing is "bad" unless you are breeding out of the standard purposely. The breeder of my male had a liver in one of her litters. That dog is doing sport and living a good life. He just won't be bred.
@ Jax08:
The first few look okay, but scroll down and you'll get blues, husky colored ones, SOLID LIVERS, and total panda everywhere. Not to mention to the prong collars so loose that you could take it off the dog's head with two inches of room to spare. Talk about unprofessional!
(this drives me really nuts.)
Whiteshepherds: "Coat Colors that are: "Pale or Washed Out, Blues, Livers are Serious Faults" -http://vonkazmaier.com/?id=689 (a professional GSD site)
Marked as "other" in AKC registrations. Don't know why liver is bad, it just isn't recommended or liked among good breeders or the AKC.
Blue & Panda German Shepherds for Sale in Florida
Ruskin House of Shepherds is proud to be an AKC registered Breeder of purebred Blue & Panda German Shepherds in Florida. Click here to view our handsome adult males!
www.ruskinhouseofshepherds.com
AKC White & Liver German Shepherds for Sale in Florida
Check out our current AKC registered, purebred Female Adults here at Ruskin House of Shepherds in a variety of colors including White, Liver & Panda. Click here to see more!
www.ruskinhouseofshepherds.com
The first few look okay, but scroll down and you'll get blues, husky colored ones, SOLID LIVERS, and total panda everywhere. Not to mention to the prong collars so loose that you could take it off the dog's head with two inches of room to spare. Talk about unprofessional!
(this drives me really nuts.)
Whiteshepherds: "Coat Colors that are: "Pale or Washed Out, Blues, Livers are Serious Faults" -http://vonkazmaier.com/?id=689 (a professional GSD site)
Marked as "other" in AKC registrations. Don't know why liver is bad, it just isn't recommended or liked among good breeders or the AKC.
I think before having an opinion, you need to understand the why.
First, I keep my prong collar loose depending on what I'm doing. Second, I don't need to look at the links. I know what colors are standard, what is not and why. The only reason liver and blues are not accepted is the leather on a shepherd has to be black. Liver and blues have faded leather. Their noses are either grey or brown depending on the color. LIver and blue come from a dilute gene. Liver is a dilute. Blue is a double dilute. Some people think the blue comes with skin issues but that is not true. It may in other breeds but not in the GSD.
Again - anyone that breeds purposely for dogs not of the standard is not a good thing. Color, size, working ability, etc. However, the colors can pop up on litters from good breeders because those are recessive genes that are part of our breed. It doesn't make the dog bad. Just means they shouldn't be bred. My male's father has had a liver pop up in a litter. He's the 2015 WUSV champion. It happens sometimes and good breeders put those dogs in homes that won't breed them.
First, I keep my prong collar loose depending on what I'm doing. Second, I don't need to look at the links. I know what colors are standard, what is not and why. The only reason liver and blues are not accepted is the leather on a shepherd has to be black. Liver and blues have faded leather. Their noses are either grey or brown depending on the color. LIver and blue come from a dilute gene. Liver is a dilute. Blue is a double dilute. Some people think the blue comes with skin issues but that is not true. It may in other breeds but not in the GSD.
Again - anyone that breeds purposely for dogs not of the standard is not a good thing. Color, size, working ability, etc. However, the colors can pop up on litters from good breeders because those are recessive genes that are part of our breed. It doesn't make the dog bad. Just means they shouldn't be bred. My male's father has had a liver pop up in a litter. He's the 2015 WUSV champion. It happens sometimes and good breeders put those dogs in homes that won't breed them.
I kind of thought so.
I'm not saying dogs who are not within breed standard should be disposed of or anything, I'm just saying that the people that breed those pop-ups are really unprofessional and that I do not believe that is good.
Also, if you have a prong collar on a working dog that is so loose that it is lying on the shoulders with inches to spare, that is someone who has not learned how to used a prong collar, or who is not taking it off after a training lesson. That. Is bad.
I'm not saying dogs who are not within breed standard should be disposed of or anything, I'm just saying that the people that breed those pop-ups are really unprofessional and that I do not believe that is good.
Also, if you have a prong collar on a working dog that is so loose that it is lying on the shoulders with inches to spare, that is someone who has not learned how to used a prong collar, or who is not taking it off after a training lesson. That. Is bad.
Breed Standards | United Schutzhund Clubs of America
The United Schutzhund Clubs of America (USCA) is a German Shepherd Dog Breed Organization guided by the rules of the organization of origin of the German Shepherd Dog, the “Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV)” in Germany. USCA is a member of the “World Union of German Shepherd Dog Clubs” and...
www.germanshepherddog.com
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