Start with solid OB on leash, then solid OB on leash in different areas with distractions, then OB at home off leash, then OB in different areas off leash. It's just a progressive timeline where you're adding one obstacle at a time.

 

Right away. First thing, off lead recall with food or toy reward.

 

I start immediately off leash and don't introduce on lead training until they are over a year. The transition at that point is usually pretty simple. I will only leash them prior to that age if I have to have them in a high traffic area.

 

I start on lead for heeling, when the dog is very correct and reliable I will toss the lead over it's shoulder or go to a short tab. I do not go off lead until the dog is very reliable and correct on lead. Then it is a training tab.

For the recall, I worked the two toy game in an enclosed area. If it is a dog that I think will bolt I will use a long line. I always have a "plan A and a Plan B." Plan A is everything works out and the dog is correct it is praised and rewarded. If the dog makes a mistake or tries to bolt, I have a long line to reel the dog in.

I start immediately regardless of the age of the dog. I just modify the training to fit the dog.

 

I did something a bit different with my current 9 month old dog.

She was basically mostly off leash until she was about 6 months old. We used the leash to teach basic OB and when out on roads, so she certainly knows how to walk on a leash, but she wasn't leashed much.

She was great off leash until she got more independent, and that's when I introduced the e-collar. It literally took only ONE 15 minute session with e-collar, then a couple short refreshers, before her recall was 100%, with or without the collar. She is a smart dog, but I also have figured out a lot working with past dogs. This is a dog who also learned fetch to hand in five minutes... and it stuck. I love a trainable dog.

That is how I do it- but this is just for hiking or running with the dog off leash. For sport OB I do start with leash, teach commands, proof them on leash then progress to off leash.

I hate to see people stay reliant on a leash for too long, though, when often just a few clear sessions with an e-collar can train the dog to be safe off leash, and give you both lots more freedom. I muddled around with this for so long with past dogs, taking risks I shouldn't have by letting dogs off leash too soon, when figuring out the e-collar would have made everything super fast.

It may not be for everyone, but it give my dogs freedom to just be dogs and go out on the trails with me, and not get lost chasing deer, etc.

 

Thank you for the info. I respect whatever you want to do, but I personally will never use an E collar ever.

 

The trainer I use is pretty adamant about newer owners not even putting collars/leashes on puppies for the first month they're home, because it forces the handler to work really hard on engagement without reliance on a leash. It might sound like blasphemy, but I've watched it work extremely well. When mature, these dogs are all expected to work off lead and far out of reach of their handlers.

Precision obedience is a different realm, and I'd defer to the advice of people who successfully participate in that venue. My recommendation above is for general, functional life skills, and obviously assumes you are not taking a young puppy into dangerous areas, breaking laws, etc.

 

Sounds like a really good idea, thanks :smile2:

 

It's totally up to you, but I hate hate hate to see dogs dying in the road, running off, getting lost, getting in trouble with wildlife, shot by farmers, because the owners won't keep an open mind on training techniques.

 

Trust me in that I would never put my dog in even the slightest harm, or even a situation that would risk it. I just don't believe in many traditional correctional methods, don't see myself ever believing in them, but respect if you do.

 

I go for a walk as soon as they come home. No leash. Puppies follow.

 

With young pups I start training for off leash reliability immediately. I do a lot of marking and rewarding checking in behavior and following. I like to take advantage of those natural puppy behaviors to imprint what I want in the adult.

 

Here are some videos of my pup's functional recall

Hiking

at the creek

Even when I am sitting and eating lunch he doesn't wander too far but a whistle brings him racing back when he gets out of sight

Nothing on the dog. No e collar. No prong. No flat collar. No leash. I have called the dog out of pack fights off the dog park. Off from chasing deer and coyotes. Called him away from the road. I am very happy with his recall.

I started on day one. No collar or leash. In my back yard. I had a clicker and his dinner. I just sat there and let him explore. As 8 week old puppies do he never went too far and would come and see what I was up to. EVERY time he came and checked in on me - he got praised and was given a handful of dinner. I would walk around the yard and his puppy instinct was to follow. More marking rewarding and praising. Literally marked and rewarded that behavior a 100 times a day.
I started off leash nature walks with him immediately when he got home too. So LOTS of practice following me and bonding as a pack.

As he got a little bigger, I incorporated toys and made myself much more animated. I'd whistle to get his attention, then RUN the opposite way waving his tug around like an idiot. When he caught me we would play, and then I would let him go off and explore again. Once he understood "whistle means run to mom" I started taking him to higher distraction places. I brought a toy on our nature walks. I put him on a long line at a busy park and practiced there.

When he hit the teenage butthead stage and chose not to follow the commands, which by this time he 100% fully understood and had plenty of practice following them even in high distraction areas. He was corrected for not obeying. Mostly verbally but there were a few come to jesus moments that involved physical corrections. I do also use a negative marker when he is not doing the right thing, so he has plenty of warnings that there will be consequences.

I don't use recall to end the fun. Good things always happen when he comes back to me when I call for him. Bad things happen when he doesn't.

 

We have a lot of trails near our house so often would go off leash as pup on the trails. At young age they are more eager to follow you. I would visit the beach off season l that would mean we would have it all to ourselves. Everytime my pup would check in with me they got a special yummy treats. I made sure I had one or two recall words that was not used often. Recall was often practiced in yard at home and given many many treats as a reward then later balls. On the hiking trails at the park i used a long lead more yummy snacks as we practiced recalls and voluntary check ins. As Max got a bit older it was difficult with distractions we have lots of wild life so it was a challenge. I went to a trainer to show me how to use an ecollar and we made big progress. Now Max can walk off leash to the car right past a feral cat without the ecollar on. I will still use ecollar for back up just in case when off Leash at trails at beaches or parks but I also have not used it and not dependent on it- that came with time. He used to be a dog that would run out the door at any opportunity , now if he steps out the door onto the deck to greet a family member comes right back in regardless if he sees cats , deer , squirrels scatter across the yard and with no e collar. Luna all you have to call her name in a sweet voice like your are singing she comes no matter. If you call her name in a firm voice she will blow you off if distracted. So I found with her it's the tone of voice was what made a difference with Luna.

 

futureluna if you are set on training without physical corrections then I'd recommend checking out Susan Garrett. She is a well known and successful agility trainer and competitor. She has BCs which while high drive tend to be softer than a GSD. She does not use corrections or even say no in her training, but is not passive when a dog makes a mistake. She has some books and DVD's available, but is mostly doing online courses now, she has a FB page and blog also. Training with out corrections is not just using a clicker and giving a dog treats. IMO you have to put a lot more effort in because you can not use an e-collar or training collar to fix an unwanted behavior.

 

What voodoo said proofing behaviors makes obedience reliable. I had never used an e collar in my life never had issue with dogs off leash. I was not anti e collar but just never needed to use one. Max had a high prey drive drive and not soft dog. Our recalls were without issue until it was time for distractions- feral cats or deer - which their is abundance where I live. Max also had issues as a pup with running out of open doors a dangerous thing to do. I took Max in obedience classes. I put a lot of work into him and impulse control exercises. I like Susan Garrett she was recommend to me by a few on this website. She has a free training called recallers if you sign up she gives you some free training videos and advise. This was all great and I like what she had to say but it did not work for major distractions with Max.

To keep Max safe and other animals safe and able to enjoy being off leash in a safe way I decided to use the ecollar. It took me awhile to come to that decision. I came across a trainer who showed me how to use it. It is a great tool when used right. I was more comfortable with the ecollar with 10 dials but that is just personal preference it was just easier finding working level for me and max comfortably. I like the garmin sport. Max is just as happy as I am as he loves to make me proud plus he can enjoy his life in a safe way. We are not truly dependent on it either but that took time and I still use as backup in certain off leash situations. Not wise and incredibly limiting to be strongly against something until you try it in a responsibly way. Just something to have in the back of your mind if your are not getting to the place you want to be with all your good efforts put forth.

I now can say it's getting easy to forget some (not all)of the challenges we have overcome. There is something always to work on though that is the truth.

 

i started early as well, using the puppies natural instinct to want to stay with the pack. Mark and reward for checking in. High reward treats for coming when called. My puppy is 6 mos old so FAR from being able to be off leash anywhere with distractions, but he will come back from chasing birds or from getting in a mud puddle. I make myself much more fun, i run the opposite direction, yell excitedly and play tug when he catches me. When I walk him with his leash with distractions I try to verbally correct and redirect him with out using the leash at all and highly reward him for staying with me. We have done MUCHO impulse training , because I have cats, so he knows the ah ah ah in a warning voice means I am watching you . Since he has a leash on in the house I am always able to reach out and touch him per sey. All that stuff carries over to eventually being off leash. I am also lucky his ball drive overrides much , so when I have his ball he will ignore everything . But its taken several weeks to hone that ( and I am sure it will wain with age and adolescence)

We have worked with his Emergency recall... something that my husband has used and worked. One day the creek was flooded , and after playing ball, the dog ( abut 5 mos) ran and JUMPED into the flooded creek ( I blame his dock diving lessons) my husband had to jump in and literally save him. After they got out and caught his breath, Spaten went to jump in again > he used the Emergency recall ( Lucky lucky lucky) repeated loud and fast and he came right away. Every few days I say it in the house and give him something he would normally never get like cat food, or something else delicious .

I am also not a huge fan of the e collars, but I would not be opposed to using one.

 

Is it possible to start training for this too early? Im about to start leash training my 3 mo GSD/Lab mix and want to tie in off-leash training.

 

Well you have to understand how it comes off when you refuse advice over and over one moral grounds. You don't know from experience so the way it comes off is bullheaded and arrogant. I don't think what the poster said was meant to be taken offensively but more as a "wake up call" of sorts. Don't limit yourself to only one training technique because as mentioned every dog is different and will require different tools.

Some good things too, it seems like you're doing your research and becoming more open to other training methods. I read a lot more than I reply to on here and can say it's a great forum with lots of information and experience if you're open to it.

 

Is this training only really necessary for GSDs? Like is it a breed specific thing?

 

Goodness, no.

There are many people here who either currently own, or have owned, a rainbow of other breeds. Terriers to sighthounds, labs to huskies.

In general, herding breeds are easier to train for reliable off leash behavior than many other types of dogs.

 

The last question is easy to answer. Until your dog is 100% reliable ... keep them on a long line in unrestricted areas. Find a confined area to work on recall off leash. And when you get that done, recall in confined areas, start working on recall with distractions and keep a long line on the dog still ... just in case.

You won't really know your dog is reliable off leash until you can recall with strong serious distractions. I almost lost an unofficial foster, when I allowed her out to run free with my other well trained dogs. When I was done I called every one back .... Struddell my White Boxer and Gunther my Band Dawg came back to me. Molly my herder dog neighbor throw away not so much????


I was freaked ... but you know stay cool, stay cool. I then sent my two out to Molly herder Dog, and then issued a recall again, that time Molly followed them back! Lesson learned don't allow a dog off leas in an unconfined space until you know they will come back.

 

Yep thats definitely a big fear of mine, glad you got your dog back. The long line definitely sounds like a good idea, thanks :smile2:

 

Recall is a life skill. I teach it on lead. I get 100% with distractions before I consider using the term off-lead. I don't want them to think that one is optional, ever. If they are off lead and I want them to come, I will call their name, dig in my pocket, run the other way, but I do not use the COME command unless I am relatively certain they will do it and immediately, and when young that means being on-leash. Of course, if you find yourself in a life or death situation, and COME might get you out of it, say it like you expect it to happen, and chances are good that if you have been doing it on lead it will happen. Babs was 4 months old when she slipped her collar in a busy parking lot in a near-by city. I called her, she came, and I was able to connect her.

There's no hurry to go off lead. Sure at home you should be able to keep a dog in the yard without a lead, and they will follow, stick with you, unless chasing butterflies is more fun. I whistle to mine to let them know they are getting close to the boundary and to stay in our yard, Always praise when they come. Coming to me is better than chopped liver.

Off lead away from home? Why? Yes, I do it when I have a dog that is in the advanced training. After they are really good, I take them uptown at night. When it is quiet and we will work in parking lots and some sidewalk work off-lead. But if there are other people, other dogs, or cars, I will snap the lead on, until we've had quite a bit of experience with off-lead work.

 

Is 1000% better than 100%?

 

Chip, what does SLL stand for?

 

Oh so sorry ... Slip Lead Leash, my thread on Boxerforum has thousands of views but I have only received a handful of PM's on there and here from people that want to pursuit it so I help them out. One of them was here and an experienced Prong Collar user I was surprised and asked her why the interest and she said ... I want to shelter dogs.

But I did run across a member there that actually does pretty much what I do and uses the same tool as I say ... there is always that guy/girl but apparently they tend to make less noise then I do.

 

And as for emergency recalls yeah great in theory but "crap happens!"

Ummmm emergency recalls are for when "crap happens". That IS their entire point.

They will PTS ,first so you know in the real world if all these hard butt, H/A dogs end up in a local shelter and the only people that can help them can "ONLY" use a E-Collar are a Prong ... good luck with that!

Coming from an extensive rescue background myself, primarily involved with an "aggressive" breed... I have no problem with shelters and rescues putting down HA dogs. The average JQP pet adopter does not have the skills needed to manage aggression for life. They need easy dogs. And considering the fact that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of completely stable NON AGGRESSIVE dogs are PTS every year, and the liability issues with rehoming dogs with known aggression I am not going to lose any sleep over this one.

So You know sorry if what I do is offensive??? But as I am want to say there is always that guy/girl ... I post for them.

The only thing I find offensive is your speaking in such absolutes when it comes to dog training when you have limited experience and completely disregard the power of genetics and drives.

 

ummmm emergency recalls are for when "crap happens". That is their entire point.





Coming from an extensive rescue background myself, primarily involved with an "aggressive" breed... I have no problem with shelters and rescues putting down ha dogs. The average jqp pet adopter does not have the skills needed to manage aggression for life. They need easy dogs. And considering the fact that hundreds of thousands of completely stable non aggressive dogs are pts every year, and the liability issues with rehoming dogs with known aggression i am not going to lose any sleep over this one.



The only thing i find offensive is your speaking in such absolutes when it comes to dog training when you have limited experience and completely disregard the power of genetics and drives.

 

Uh... Herding breeds, especially German Shepherds are the ultimate working dogs. It is their niche and specialty. It is the purpose for which were created and they are bred. Hounds and gun dogs are fine working dogs too, bred to fill a different, but valuable work venue. Other breeds of different genre aren't used much as working dogs. Many never served in that capacity in the first place with some breeds being created for entertainment and others to be pets or sit on laps.

 

Uh... Herding breeds, especially German Shepherds are the ultimate working dogs..

Oh well ... I am much better at dealing with a dog, then predicting them???

Admittedly my "Big Furry Dog with a Pointy Face" lacked ... specificity??? I kinda over looked the name German Shepherd??? :

Oh well sometimes, it's good to be wrong.

 

I think it is insulting to our breed for somebody to dismiss it as not a working dog when no other breed serves in as many different venues since it's inception to current. No other breed compares when it comes to work.

 

I think it is insulting to our breed for somebody to dismiss it as not a working dog when no other breed serves in as many different venues since it's inception to current. No other breed compares when it comes to work.

Oh well I'm not going to bother defending, how some chose to interpret what I've said??? But you know ... find that "quote" and I'll happily apologize.

 

Chip18: Working dogs are my thing, I don't really care for herder dogs all the ones I know were ill behaved people biting [omitted]!

Wow. You must only spend time around some absolutely terrible individuals. Or "all the ones" you know are so understimulated and badly handled they're behaving completely opposite the nature for which they were bred.

All of my favorite dog breeds are the herding group and my experience has been the complete opposite of yours.

THIS is the category of dog bred to:

- Work off leash and at varying distances
- Live and work around other valuable domestic animals
- Bond closely and live in tune with the handler
- Think and make choices while working. A beautiful balance between instinct and obedience

It can take time, education, patience and some intuition to bring out the best in these dogs. But the raw potential for this type of companion is there, in the German Shepherd Dog.

Sorry Chip, but I find your quoted comment above very disdainful and disappointing. JMHO.

 

I just wanted to say that this very eloquently sums up why finding a breeder that strives to preserve herding instincts is so important to me when puppy shopping...

Well put!