[Heidigsd]

Unfortunately, the vast majority don't disclose it and continue to hide it.

I think this is a sad but true statement. I am on my second GSD with major health issues and have decided not to get another dog in the future. These so called breeders don't have a clue (or maybe they do and just don't care) how heartbreaking and stressful it is to deal with some of these issues, not to mention very expensive.

It really saddens me to think about what happens to the puppies that end up in homes that are not willing or financially able to care for them

 

[vom Eisenherz]

Whats Happening

Another breeder's experience with Mega-E, apparently carried by her stud dog, who is out of a VERY popular sire of DDR pups. Note that the females tested were negative, and only the stud showed to be a carrier and she had several affected pups in 2 litters.

 

[jaggirl47]

Whats Happening

Another breeder's experience with Mega-E, apparently carried by her stud dog, who is out of a VERY popular sire of DDR pups. Note that the females tested were negative, and only the stud showed to be a carrier and she had several affected pups in 2 litters.

I actually got this info from that breeder the other day. It isn't 100% correct though. The only test Clemson can do is test the dog to see if they actually have it, not just as a carrier. A dog can have ME but show signs that are so minimal it would easily go un-noticed. In this case, it is entirely possible to pass the gene by only the one parent because the gene is then dominant. If neither parent tests positive for this test, it does not mean they are not a carrier, just that they do not actively have it. In this case, it is recessive and takes both parents to carry it.

I already posed the question to Clemson.

 

[vom Eisenherz]

I actually got this info from that breeder the other day. It isn't 100% correct though. The only test Clemson can do is test the dog to see if they actually have it, not just as a carrier. A dog can have ME but show signs that are so minimal it would easily go un-noticed. In this case, it is entirely possible to pass the gene by only the one parent because the gene is then dominant. If neither parent tests positive for this test, it does not mean they are not a carrier, just that they do not actively have it. In this case, it is recessive and takes both parents to carry it.

I already posed the question to Clemson.

Isn't that what she says in the link? It's in its infancy, from what I understood. Just thought since she is being honest about her dog that others might benefit from reading.

 

[jaggirl47]

Isn't that what she says in the link? It's in its infancy, from what I understood. Just thought since she is being honest about her dog that others might benefit from reading.

Oh, heck yes. I appreciate what she is doing and have a great deal of respect for her. It's good to see breeders that tackle this head on. Sorry if my reply showed anything but that.

 

[Heidigsd]

Is there a location where breeders (stud or bitch) can gather (health related) information from?

IDK if this registry is still active, haven't been on there in a long time: German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry

 

[jaggirl47]

IDK if this registry is still active, haven't been on there in a long time: German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry

I have never seen this before.

 

[Heidigsd]

I have never seen this before.

It's been around for many years and I had forgotten about it. If you search for it on pedigreedatabase you will get a lot of posts by Marjorie on the subject

 

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

I haven't read all the links so sorry if this is already posted:
Canine Megaesophagus, Aspiration Pneumonia & Myasthenia Gravis - Current Studies

Studies! I always sign my dogs up if I can help; so far the ones they've done were the IgA one at A/M and Anna did some DNA thing at Cornell. Not sure if Ava did as well. So please spread the word about those for any Mega-E dogs.

Canine Megaesophagus, Aspiration Pneumonia & Myasthenia Gravis - Resources has links, including to the Yahoo group for Mega-e dogs.

There is also this: Persistent Right Aortic Arch (PRAA) in Dogs that seems similar.

I hope they are able to get some good info from those studies.

 

[jaggirl47]

I haven't read all the links so sorry if this is already posted:
Canine Megaesophagus, Aspiration Pneumonia & Myasthenia Gravis - Current Studies

Studies! I always sign my dogs up if I can help; so far the ones they've done were the IgA one at A/M and Anna did some DNA thing at Cornell. Not sure if Ava did as well. So please spread the word about those for any Mega-E dogs.

Canine Megaesophagus, Aspiration Pneumonia & Myasthenia Gravis - Resources has links, including to the Yahoo group for Mega-e dogs.

There is also this: Persistent Right Aortic Arch (PRAA) in Dogs that seems similar.

I hope they are able to get some good info from those studies.

Dr Clark is leading the studies for mega e. She is the same one that was leading the studies for EPI when she was at Texas A&M. She is awesome. I am hoping she shoots me an email back soon. I have heard from the lab but I like how she explains stuff.

PRAA is one of the mega e causes in pups. The mega e that is caused by PRAA is considered secondary or aquired. Last I heard on PRAA is that it is not genetic. I know several people that argue this though. They have seen it run in specific lines.

I'm like you Jean. I can't tell you how many times I sent Zappa's blood and DNA places just to do testing. He had so many issues it just felt like the right thing to do. Heck, I even sent Leyna's DNA several places just so I can see her genetic make-up. She is healthy, but it's interesting!

 

[MaggieRoseLee]

I think the problem would be if the breeder didn't disclose the possibility. If the breeder knew the possiblity, it would certainly matter to me even if it were a mild case.

That's exactly right.

It DOES matter if you have a pup with mega. Even if it's mild and has a healthy normal life. I need to know about the condition, and NOT breed the dog. Both the mega pups I ended up with, it was with the knowledge of the condition PLUS agreements with the breeders that they would be spayed and not pass on the conditions.

 

[jaggirl47]

That's exactly right.

It DOES matter if you have a pup with mega. Even if it's mild and has a healthy normal life. I need to know about the condition, and NOT breed the dog. Both the mega pups I ended up with, it was with the knowledge of the condition PLUS agreements with the breeders that they would be spayed and not pass on the conditions.

And this is an extremely important thing to do.

 

[martemchik]

So then I have a question...

The one dog in the liter that had it, would this mean both parents were carriers...does this mean somehow only one dog got both recessive genes and the others are now either non-carriers at all or carriers? Mathematically this doesn't make sense...how is it that one litter out of two carriers can have all pups affected and another litter only has one pup affected? Or do some of the other dogs probably have it just not at a level a novice person would ever notice? I'm comparing this to a litter mentioned earlier in a post.

I know there are a lot of questions in that paragraph, but I'd like to know what to expect from my boy, is it even worth it to figure out that he's a carrier? Or say I do get an offer for stud, do I disclose that his litter mate had megaE and he could possibly be a carrier, although there is a large chance he isn't a carrier?

 

[jaggirl47]

So then I have a question...

The one dog in the liter that had it, would this mean both parents were carriers...does this mean somehow only one dog got both recessive genes and the others are now either non-carriers at all or carriers? Mathematically this doesn't make sense...how is it that one litter out of two carriers can have all pups affected and another litter only has one pup affected? Or do some of the other dogs probably have it just not at a level a novice person would ever notice? I'm comparing this to a litter mentioned earlier in a post.

I know there are a lot of questions in that paragraph, but I'd like to know what to expect from my boy, is it even worth it to figure out that he's a carrier? Or say I do get an offer for stud, do I disclose that his litter mate had megaE and he could possibly be a carrier, although there is a large chance he isn't a carrier?

Statistically speaking, when 2 carriers are bred together, 1/4 will actively have it, 1/2 will be carriers, 1/4 will be completely clear. Does this always happen? No. Nothing is ever for sure when breeding.

When a carrier is to a non-carrier, 1/2 will be clear, 1/2 will be carriers.

Now, as far as the litters where the majority have the mega e, the current belief is that one of the parents has the autosomal dominant gene. So far studies show this dog actually actively has the disease. The dog may not show a single symptom that is even really noticeable.

 

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

That is a good question for a vet school - now, what I have read conservatively recommends not breeding affected dogs or their siblings: Megaesophagus | Canine Inherited Disorders Database | University of Prince Edward Island because their research is older, I would either ask the vets working on these studies or maybe if your vet teaching hospital had anyone who was looking at this could be a secondary resource.

 

[jaggirl47]

That is a good question for a vet school - now, what I have read conservatively recommends not breeding affected dogs or their siblings: Megaesophagus | Canine Inherited Disorders Database | University of Prince Edward Island because their research is older, I would either ask the vets working on these studies or maybe if your vet teaching hospital had anyone who was looking at this could be a secondary resource.

I asked Clemson and they agree, parents and siblings of the affected dogs should not be bred. Clemson is the one doing the genetic research for ME.

 

[martemchik]

Now, as far as the litters where the majority have the mega e, the current belief is that one of the parents has the autosomal dominant gene. So far studies show this dog actually actively has the disease. The dog may not show a single symptom that is even really noticeable.

Going off of this...if the disease is autosomal dominant, it means there are no carriers, because the disease is technically there just not showing. Wouldn't that pretty much make it something that if it is in a popular bloodline of GSD it would be showing up in any/all dogs that have that are on that blood line?

Any one know if Clemson is still testing dogs for the gene? If I send in a swab from my boy and contact them would they be able to tell me anything?

I'm taking this full circle...should this now be something that is tested for? My dog has some pretty famous lines in him and if this is autosomal dominant, that would mean one of those lines gave this gene to him. Now, he doesn't have any signs that I know of, and neither do any of his other litter mates, but he should indeed be a carrier. Hypothetically...this could lead to a few puppies out of him having the extreme version of the disease, and the others all having it with no signs...this leads me to believe that this would me much more prevalent in GSDs with how closely bred many are.

 

[Samba]

It is Surely not autosomal dominant? It is recessive for sure. I know of animals who carry who have been bred extensively in American lines. If dominant then it goes undetected a lot!

Also, when breeding a carrier to a carrier it not at all true that half of pups will carry and half won't! The pups could all carry, no pups could carry or some percentage inbetween. There is no way to predict the number of affected offspring. The percent values apply to each puppy's "chances" of inheriting. It is a roll of the genetic dice for each individual pupper.

 

[jaggirl47]

Going off of this...if the disease is autosomal dominant, it means there are no carriers, because the disease is technically there just not showing. Wouldn't that pretty much make it something that if it is in a popular bloodline of GSD it would be showing up in any/all dogs that have that are on that blood line?

Any one know if Clemson is still testing dogs for the gene? If I send in a swab from my boy and contact them would they be able to tell me anything?

I'm taking this full circle...should this now be something that is tested for? My dog has some pretty famous lines in him and if this is autosomal dominant, that would mean one of those lines gave this gene to him. Now, he doesn't have any signs that I know of, and neither do any of his other litter mates, but he should indeed be a carrier. Hypothetically...this could lead to a few puppies out of him having the extreme version of the disease, and the others all having it with no signs...this leads me to believe that this would me much more prevalent in GSDs with how closely bred many are.

Not exactly correct. If a dog actively has the disease, with or without symptoms, the gene is autosomal dominant. It only takes the one parent to pass it then. One of the beliefs is that when it is passed by the automal dominant gene, more pups in the litter will have the active form of mega e.

If neither parent actively has the disease, then it takes both to be carriers in order to pass it on. This is when it is considered autosomal ressesive.

There is currently no test for this disease. Clemson is only taking DNA of GSD's under 1 year of age that have the primary idiopathic form and as many generations as possible from that breeding lineage itself.

 

[martemchik]

Alright...so then there are different ways of getting this genetic problem? It can be both dominant and recessive and the dog can get it either way? I'm trying to figure this out from a genetic stand point because of course a dog that has the dominant gene should never be bred, but one with a recessive version of the gene could be bred if that dog has something that is worth the risk of passing on the gene.