If the male keeps producing megaE pups in every litter, I'd say he has the dominant version of the gene that causes the disease. At this point, the sire just shouldn't be bred. But what are you going to do about it? Even without mentioning the male and the owner's name, it sounds like you're dragging this guy through the mud. He's wrong to keep studding his dog, but 99% of the people out there wouldn't keep doing what he's doing. If the dog is constantly producing megaE pups, with different females, its clear that something else is going on.

I think in this case the male probably has megaE and it just isn't presenting itself...or it is and the owner is covering it up. The sire's owner is definitely not the most ethical person, but again, most people aren't like that. Yes, without more information no one can really say more about what is going on, but hopefully people will stop asking him to stud soon because they will hear about the kind of progeny he's producing. Natural market forces will cause him to stop breeding this male at some point.

At this point...its not even about megaE, its about ethical breeding practices. This one doesn't care at all, he'd breed this dog no matter what disease he was producing.

 

If the male keeps producing megaE pups in every litter, I'd say he has the dominant version of the gene that causes the disease. At this point, the sire just shouldn't be bred. But what are you going to do about it? Even without mentioning the male and the owner's name, it sounds like you're dragging this guy through the mud. He's wrong to keep studding his dog, but 99% of the people out there wouldn't keep doing what he's doing. If the dog is constantly producing megaE pups, with different females, its clear that something else is going on.

I think in this case the male probably has megaE and it just isn't presenting itself...or it is and the owner is covering it up. The sire's owner is definitely not the most ethical person, but again, most people aren't like that. Yes, without more information no one can really say more about what is going on, but hopefully people will stop asking him to stud soon because they will hear about the kind of progeny he's producing. Natural market forces will cause him to stop breeding this male at some point.

At this point...its not even about megaE, its about ethical breeding practices. This one doesn't care at all, he'd breed this dog no matter what disease he was producing.

I wouldn't say I'm dragging this guy through the mud. Noone on here knows who he is as far as I know. I can tell you one thing, it is NOT my breeder. I am also not going to publicly post it.

As far as we know, this stud has only sired one litter with mega e. This same litter half of the pups were still born. One other litter the entire litter was lost. I honestly don't know if there are connections, but I truly believe it is unethical breeding.

 

I would say that the sire having any contribution to stillborn pups, or a litter dying shortly after birth, is highly unlikely. The most likely causes would be environment, possibly a virus, or something with the dam rather than anything to do with the genetics of the sire. So whether sire or his owner are considered good or ethical or not, I really don't see how stillborn pups or a litter dying after birth could be laid on them.

 

I would say that the sire having any contribution to stillborn pups, or a litter dying shortly after birth, is highly unlikely. The most likely causes would be environment, possibly a virus, or something with the dam rather than anything to do with the genetics of the sire. So whether sire or his owner are considered good or ethical or not, I really don't see how stillborn pups or a litter dying after birth could be laid on them.

Thanks CHris. I wasn't sure if they could have anything to do with each other or not. This is why I don't breed lol.

 

Also....a dog can produce a problem once...and never produce it again.
One can "have" a problem...and yet, never produce it....
This is how life is.
One must always look at things *eyes wide open*.

Breeding is complicated, it is heart wrenching, it is finacially and emotionally draining......but it is also rewarding and a passion for many of us.

 

Breeding is complicated, it is heart wrenching, it is finacially and emotionally draining......but it is also rewarding and a passion for many of us.

I'm so glad that the responsible breeders do what they do, and do it so well.
Having a dog from a breeder that just put dogs together to make a litter and then one that is well bred from one that puts time, training, heart and soul into it shows in the dogs produced.
Until I experienced one of each, I really don't know the difference.

 

Kendra, I am so very, very sorry for your loss.

He was so young and adorable.

RIP Zeus.

 

Oh Kendra, my heart breaks for you. Big hugs to you.

 

I value every minute I had with him and I know he is now in a much better place.

When I started this thread, it was for a purpose, to try to help me figure things out. I received an amazing, healthy puppy. Unfortunately, when he was 12 1/2 weeks old, he started to show symptoms of megaesophagus. That is when the vet diagnosed him with primary idiopathic megaesophagus.

My breeder, Chuck, did what I feel is extremely responsible. He pulled the Zeus' dam aside. There is not a genetic test yet, so there is no way of knowing who carries what, and he showed responsibility to lessen the chance of breeding it again. As much as I know it sucks for him, he showed a true sense of responsibility.

The owner of the sire is from a complete different kennel and is in no way owned by Chuck. The sire's owner has hid his head in the sand and is refusing to acknowledge or let potential dam owners know that a mega e dog was produced. This I feel is irresponsible breeding practices and risks more mega e dogs and carriers into the world. He has also cut off any and all contact with people who know anything about this.

When I read multiple times on this thread how megaesophagus is not a severe condition, it made me very angry. It is a severe condition. A very severe condition. Yes, maybe one or two have had some degree of experience, and thankfully it was extremely mild for you. Unless you have had to deal with severe megaesophagus, comments about "it's not that bad" should not be made. My Zeus was put to sleep yesterday because of this dreadful condition. He had a bad day and there was no way we could pull him out of it.

My breeder has been absolutely wonderful. This was my second dog from him. I have had some of the most outstanding breeder support I could ever ask for, not just in the bad times but the good as well. Chuck was there 100% after Leyna and still is to this day. He has been there through the entire megaesophagus journey and called every single day to see how Zeus was. He didn't have to do this but he did, all because he cares about and stands 100% behind every dog he produces.

I wouldn't change the circumstances for anything. I value each and every minute I had with Zeus. I don't regret telling Chuck we would do our best and try to give him a good life.

We will soon be getting a new pup from Chuck and I look forward to adding a new member once again to our household. Just like I will be going back to Chuck in a few more years for yet another dog. His breeder support has been amazing, through thick and thin, and every dog I get will come from him.

 

I am so sorry

RIP "Zeus"

 

I am so very very sorry, poor you and poor Zeus, just devastating

 

Kendra, as I said during our phone calls that I would not comment on this thread I do feel that now is a great time to. We here at Shepherds By Design K-9 are truly sorry for all the pain we have brought to your family with Zeus's issues. It breaks my heart to see the pain you and your family are going thru and hope that this new pup will lessen the pain and bring much joy for you and your family

 

Chuck, I don't blame you in any way, shape or form. You have been an amazing ally in this journey. My family is proud to own dogs that come from you and we will continue to have your dogs grace our home. Your outstanding support for all dogs we have received from you has been top notch and way more than we could have ever asked for. We will always have dogs from Shepherds By Design in our home, because of the outstanding support that has come from you as well as the amazing dogs you have already placed in our hearts.

 

Just cross referencing some various threads on a couple of sites....apparently there is a litter bred 2-2 on the sire of the male producing mega E as cited here?????? Or did I misunderstand the posts/pedigrees????


Lee

 

Just cross referencing some various threads on a couple of sites....apparently there is a litter bred 2-2 on the sire of the male producing mega E as cited here?????? Or did I misunderstand the posts/pedigrees????


Lee

No, different threads Lee. The breeding in question had no linebreeding.

 

I believe that a different member is getting a puppy that is 2-2 on the grandsire of your pup.....that is the comment I was making....Xavier Spartanville?????

Lee

 

I believe that a different member is getting a puppy that is 2-2 on the grandsire of your pup.....that is the comment I was making....Xavier Spartanville?????

Lee

Ahh, gotcha. Yes.

As far as I know, Xavier has never produced this and my pup's sire is now getting sold to a different breeding home.

 

So sorry, Kendra. Mega-E NOT a serious condition?!?! IMO it doesn't get a lot more serious especially if it's severe.

 

So sorry, Kendra. Mega-E NOT a serious condition?!?! IMO it doesn't get a lot more serious especially if it's severe.

It was mentioned a few times on this thread that it isn't severe. I have now had to deal with it and I know exactly how severe it is.

I just thank God I have had such amazing support from Chuck. We will actually be getting Zeus' full brother who is clear of ME.

 

Oh my.... I just read this. I'm SO sorry for your loss. I think maybe now some folks will understand your passion about this subject.
I want to applaud SBD for truly being stand up breeders in all aspects of this whole thing.

 

It truly is a horrible condition.

I just am so thankful Chuck is such a stand up guy. If it wasn't for his support, I don't kow how I could have hung in there.

 

Actually, it was a bit of the opposite. Zeus was doing excellent, keeping food down and growing. He was pooping after every meal and was pretty much healthy minus the mega e.
Yesterday, Zeus had a bad day. Plain and simple. He started regurging and vomiting. We tried to keep him calm and give him meds and fluids, but it didn't stop. The vomiting caused him to start bleeding somewhere and it wasn't stopping. His heart started skipping beats and he was losing blood.
I am glad you got the lower end of the spectrum for mega e. You are lucky if it can be called that.

 

Actually, it was a bit of the opposite. Zeus was doing excellent, keeping food down and growing. He was pooping after every meal and was pretty much healthy minus the mega e.
Yesterday, Zeus had a bad day. Plain and simple. He started regurging and vomiting. We tried to keep him calm and give him meds and fluids, but it didn't stop. The vomiting caused him to start bleeding somewhere and it wasn't stopping. His heart started skipping beats and he was losing blood.
I am glad you got the lower end of the spectrum for mega e. You are lucky if it can be called that.

All I'm saying is that those symptoms are NOT just mega, something else was going on..

Clearly you made the right decision for your dog and your situation, I am not questioning that.

I just want it to be clear that what happened to you is NOT consistant with a pup just having mega. And I don't want more people killing their otherwise healthy pup in fear of something that may happen but probably will not.

 

I am so sorry about the loss of your wee one. What a heart breaker.

 

I know a dog with severe Mega-E that can't go a day keeping food down, constantly on meds for aspiration pneumonia, and suffers and also awful secondary condition. To me that is pretty severe especially when an owner who truly loves the dog and spends all their time and resources on special care and feeding admits that if they'd known the extent they would have never taken the dog.

It's like perianal fistulas...a dog could have one that gets treated and never have them again, or a dog can have them chronically and literally waste away to death.

 

All illnesses that this and every other breed of dog can have,.... has it's mild and severe cases.
ALL CASES are hard on the owners, and on many of the breeders alike.
Some illnesses are manageable, some are not.

A breeders job is to know what is going on, look at all probabilities, and try to decipher : who/what/where the problem may have come from......not always does it mean the *direct parents* need to be culled from breeding.....and sometimes, it does.....every case will be different. JMO

I am very happy to hear that Chuck has been supportive through out this situation....but I would have expected nothing less of Chuck....he has a very good reputation.

I am very sorry for your loss, and I hope your new puppy brings you many years of joy!

 

A breeders job is to know what is going on, look at all probabilities, and try to decipher : who/what/where the problem may have come from......not always does it mean the *direct parents* need to be culled from breeding.....

Totally agree. Nikon has a mega-E littermate and at one point I was seriously considering purchasing a puppy linebred on his sire. I do consider it a severe condition but not such that a single occurrence means the sire and dam have to be culled from breeding.

 

Kendra - I have nothing to add to this thread but have read with interest.

I just want to say how very sorry I am, to you, your family and to SBD, for your loss. We all know you made the best decision possible for Zeus.

 

So very sorry to hear this. Mega-E is a horrible disease that has variations in severity. I know of a case that was severe and the bitch had to be put to sleep. It sucks and is a horrible thing to go through.

 

Robin, your first 3 sentences are exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you for making it much more clear than I did.

Lies, I have spoken to the owner of Nikon's littermate and she gave me some awesome advice. I thank her for stepping up like she did. I think some of her advice made it possible to have the amount of time we did have with Zeus.

Jax, thank you for your kind words. We would have fought but with him being so young he just didn't have the chance he would have if he was a bit older. We did fight as much as possible until his little body just gave out. It all happened so fast and was completely unexpected.

Krome, thank you as well. I am keeping in contact with some of the GSD owners from the mega e group. We have given each other words of encouragement and I am hoping to follow their progress with their pups. Many were the same age as Zeus.

Chuck has been fantastic. Not just with this issue but overall. This was our second pup from him. Even with Leyna we kept in contact on an almost weekly basis. He has always been there to answer any questions I have with anything. He has earned my permanent business, I can say that much.

 

This thread should really illustrate just how important it is for a breeder to be knowledgable about all aspects of the breed. With all the health concerns, temperament concerns, and different breeding goals, it requires due diligence to consistently produce good dogs. Chris and Robin,(among others), pretty much reflect my thoughts on health issues. Successful breeders cannot look at things from an owners perspective when it comes to breeding. Good breeders must arm themselves with knowledge, check their emotions, and make decisions based on the big picture more so than the isolated occurrence.( of course the more something occurs the less isolated it is and a change of approach has to be reflected). Their are some health concerns today that are synonymous with the breed, and their are some health concerns today that are the result of breeding practices. Either way, the educating of people like this thread is doing can only help the situation.
@ Jaggirl, sorry about Zeus!

 

Well, I must say, Mega E is not a good disease for a dog to endure. At least not to the degree our dog had. I purchased a German Shepherd working dog from Alemangsd's J-litter born July 6, 2015. The dam was whiskey von aleman and the sire was Ivan vom poppitz. My pup, Echo (Josie) suffered from the start with Mega E. We didn't understand why she continued throwing up everyday. As many as 7 times daily. Thinking it was her diet we changed her food many times. After researching we stumbled on Mega E, confirmed it with our doctor and proceeded to treat her by feeding her smaller meals three times a day in a Bailey chair where she sat for 35 minutes after each meal. She was able to attain a top weight of 53 pounds for a period of two months before her health again began to fail through suffering a developing a series of infections. After she recovered we scheduled a spading on July 3rd 2018. On Friday July 6th, her second birthday, she died. It was determined by Doctor Schaefer at Penn Vet, Philadelphia that she had gastroesophageal Intussusception and Aspiration Pneumonia i.e. her intestines and her esophagus had telescoped into one another causing a blockage not allowing any fluids or food to enter her stomach and she developed an infection of the lungs from fluid regurgitated from her esophagus. Sounds like fun doesn't it. Raul Aleman knew Whiskey carried the gene, I know this because he told me so, but didn't care.
i watched a working dog not be a working dog or even a regular dog because this disease restricted her from a full life. She also suffer deformities to her lungs and wind pipe. Still to this day, July 17, 2018, Raul Aleman of Alemangsd refused to restrict his dog from breeding. Do you want to chance the same fate to you dog?
Breeders have to be more responsible and breed better quality dogs. In my view, breeders of this type including Raul Aleman are not to be trusted.