And the Vermont SP may also take the dog......

I would contact breeder again and tell him the situation - and that your husband is considering euthanasia

Too many people buy strong working line dogs who are not prepared for them.....too many breeders breed without true knowledge or a working outlet for the puppies.


Lee

 

Thanks for putting the word out. Not sure how to put the word out to police agencies but it sounds like that's where he would be happiest. Have luck.

 

I googled about and found this article with a few suggestions:

How to Donate a Dog for Law Enforcement

Law enforcement agencies may accept a donated canine patrol dog with the right qualities and a good recommendation.

animals.mom.com

It would seem the owner should go through a trainer and have the dog evaluated for police work. And a suggestion to contact search & rescue teams.
But it seems most agencies get their dogs directly from Europe or through trainers.

 

I googled about and found this article with a few suggestions:

How to Donate a Dog for Law Enforcement

Law enforcement agencies may accept a donated canine patrol dog with the right qualities and a good recommendation.

animals.mom.com

It would seem the owner should go through a trainer and have the dog evaluated for police work. And a suggestion to contact search & rescue teams.
But it seems most agencies get their dogs directly from Europe or through trainers.

The breeder is a trainer (for the police!!) and he has already been evaluated for police work and he is not police material according to two different trainers the other is with the Massachusetts State Police. He worked with Ragnar since he was small . The two people mentioned above have also put the word out in law enforcement and retired law enforcement circles; they are actively working on it too; I am reaching out to a tiny minority of people who understand Czech Working Lines.thank you for your understanding and suggestions I appreciate it

 

yes we are now down to crate and rotate you are correct about all the above. The Pom has got away with murder over the past ten years with 4 different other German Shepherds they all thought the Pom was funny. Even Ragnar has been consistently sweet to him he grew up with him and was patient with him no matter how badly the Pom acted. The Pom was a rescue ten years ago and otherwise so easy to get along with (heels naturally off leash etc) that I admit I neglected to train him formally and this was the result. You are so right. Sticking your hand into a dog fight is not something I myself would have done. It was also the first time it happened (it was the first time that the pudel had been away) although in my long discussion with the trainer afterwards he suggested that I / we as a family would have missed and overlooked early signs and not nipped them in the bud…so yes unfortunately I was not as competent or savvy as I should have been or my trainer had expected me to be. This is on me. We’ve had two unneutered GSD males together before but they were 4 years apart and there was never anything like this just cheerful romping I got spoiled and a little negligent after all of that and I’ve been traveling for work For 3 months out of the last eleven with unfortunate consequences for Ragnar obviously thank you for taking the time to help him

I agree with your trainer. Some lessons are learned the hard way. You don’t know what you don’t know. It’s nothing to stress over now, just something to take and use to do better next time.

 

I agree with your trainer. Some lessons are learned the hard way. You don’t know what you don’t know. It’s nothing to stress over now, just something to take and use to do better next time.

Thank you

 

Beautiful area to have that dog, I'm sorry its not working out but perhaps not the best chance for success with the current dogs.

 

Thank you for the kind words. That is all on our land, it’s been “dog heaven” a wonderful thing to have on a coastal mountain in Maine! Yes this is a total heart break for me

 

There is a group called Throwaway dogs project out of PA/NJ area. If has a reasonable nerves and environmentals that might be an option. Could be single purpose only if not a real strong dog. Many dogs wash out of dual purpose but can still do bombs or drugs. They may have ideas or contacts. Sounds like he is not a good fit for typical family pet.

 

You may not like what I have to say and that is fine, but if the Mass State Police trainer said you gave him to much freedom (what ever that means) and he sent your husband to the hospital you are going to have a hard time rehoming him. As much as I would hate to see it happen you may just have to euthanize him.

There are very experienced GSD handlers on here who it appears have given you advice or suggestions, but it seems to me that you don't want to acknowledge them.

I'm curious as to why you and your husband choose a Czech WL GSD was there a specific reason for it? My understanding is and some please correct me if I am wrong that the Czech line are very prey driven which I think is why K-9 departments like them.

 

I'm curious as to why you and your husband choose a Czech WL GSD was there a specific reason for it? My understanding is and some please correct me if I am wrong that the Czech line are very prey driven which I think is why K-9 departments like them.

Czech lines have a lot of aggression and suspicion and can be thin nerved. The dogs I know that police are buying are not that. They are stable with appropriate aggression. They do not like dog aggression either. They need dogs that can be controlled. The dogs I know are not a "line". They are dogs that can do the job. Police do not care about pedigrees as a general rule so I'm actually surprised that a whole state has a breeding program of dogs that were bred to hunt and destroy anyone trying to escape the soviet union. That's just a liability waiting to happen.

 

I also appear to be having technical difficulties blogging

 

Okay here’s the parents of my dog Ragnar

 

Godea od Janice | Dog profile - information and data – working-dog

Všechny relevantní informace jako jsou obrázky, videa a podrobný rodokmen pro Godea od Janice nalezneš na working-dog.

cs.working-dog.com

Yaran vom Salztalblick | Dog profile - information and data – working-dog

You will find all relevant information, images, videos and a detailed pedigree for Yaran vom Salztalblick at working-dog.

us.working-dog.com

 

Thank you for this!!

 

I feel for you.
These dogs just can’t be treated as pets.
I think with proper management you can still keep this dog, but you have to be willing to work with what you have, and approach ownership of this dog in an entirely different way.
If you don’t think you can crate and rotate, please listen to @Jax08. With her help, you can find the right placement for him, and you will be happy, and so will the dog.

 

Thank you for your kind words. Even I know enough to know that I messed up badly. Im doing crate and rotate consistently now. And yes I am definitely listening to @Jax08. I gave her all of the information she asked for
breeder trainer pedigree contact information for everyone
including myself
in a pm.

My apologies for being both tentative and reactive on this forum I think I’ve figured out who to listen to here, finally. This is all a steep learning curve.

My mostly West German Schutzhund lines and one AKC line dogs (6 GSD in twenty years another one in my childhood while living in Switzerland) were rarely crated. They loved their crate but spent only a couple hours a day in it usually with the door open.

But I understand how my trainer who has working dogs handles his working lines. They consistently crate and rotate. No monkey business

I should have done everything differently in this regard. I should have been here more. Raising him with another large-ish male puppy two weeks apart and with this many (bratty) small dogs and cats all milling about in a big dog and cat pile was an unfortunate choice.

Now we are redirecting me!

This is a win win: either he gets evaluated by a range of badass trainers in three states with competent working line connections and gets to be a forever dog to a competent handler in the right setting

or:

I become a more competent handler myself and we provide a better setting.

Win/win as long as the dog has potential which some seem to think he may…some don’t as much…but we shall see. Not every trainer is the same. Some may see potential where others don’t. First one has to subtract the factor of incompetent handling and lapses of judgment. The dog is still young.

Some may also have a way with and liking for certain lines (like the more “emotionally volatile” Czech lines (apparently mostly on his dams side) that I am now told were deliberately brought down a notch through breeding certain qualities back into them, when they became too difficult—super high drive / emotional—even for most K-9 units ) I love and respect this dog and I am not putting down any dog (or his lines) because of my own stupidity. No the working lines can’t be treated as pets. I knew that and I ignored it. I was very focused amateur handler and worked very hard (for years with this trainer and with a certain awesome dog) when years ago a DDR dog was first suggested to me by that trainer as a possible “next dog” for my purposes at the time; since then I clearly fell asleep at the job

I deeply appreciate your interest in this case and your empathy for my current predicament thank you

 

The running joke at our club -

Get a czech line. it will be fun they said

You will be in good hands with any of the 3 I sent you. They are fair and consistent trainers with experience.

 

The running joke at our club -

Get a czech line. it will be fun they said

One thing Hans’ breeder did well: she handed me the right dog.
When I took puppy Hans for his first vet visit, she said, “Ohhh, a CZECH line? This could be the best thing ever, or a complete disaster!”
I was lucky to have this forum. Can’t imagine what I would have done, had I not had advice from so many.

 

Lol @Jax08 Czech dogs can be a handful but they are fun, can’t take it from them! As well as DDRs, just in a different way, who are so super serious.

The OPs dog is not fully Czech lines so I would not focus on the lines so much. Sounds like a nice dog. Young Czech dogs can look nervy when young, insecure rather as your trainer said, completely normal, you just need to let them mature, keep training and manage the multiple dog household.

 

Lol @Jax08 Czech dogs can be a handful but they are fun, can’t take it from them! As well as DDRs, just in a different way, who are so super serious.

The OPs dog is not fully Czech lines so I would not focus on the lines so much. Sounds like a nice dog. Young Czech dogs can look nervy when young, insecure rather as your trainer said, completely normal, you just need to let them mature, keep training and manage the multiple dog household.

I like them. dogs like that need to mature before pressure is put on them for sure. Even my girl that's not all czech has a high level of suspicion and just letting her mature made all the difference.

 

@m2mtalcott , no more beating yourself up.
I doubt that this is beyond fixing, especially having read about your experience.
Hey, you owned a few Volvos, and got a Ferrari! It’s ok, as long as you respect it and handle it as it needs😏
You will be fine, and so will the dog.

 

I really love a good czech/wg cross that brings in the best of both words. There are certain lines that I love to see in a pedigree because they bring in stability like the Eqidius lines.

 

Litter from Yaran vom Salztalblick and Godea od Janice

www.pedigreedatabase.com

Here is a pedigree on the mating.....the sire is pretty much West German, the dam Czech, the full pedigree on her is on working dog....most of it is NOT common here in the US, but I do see some dogs I know of. The sire's WGR lines have a combo I don't particularly care for from a nerve standpoint.

IMO, if there is an issue with this dog, it is that - as I said - people import and breed dogs without understanding the pedigree's potentials and what mixes well. People have X dollars to spend, a broker finds them a dog meeting certain limited criteria - age, price, color - whatever, and viola' - they start breeding. Selling pups is lucrative, so they import a couple more.

It does not sound like this is a bad pup!!!! This is a pup who was treated like an ordinary dog who was thrust into a situation with 2 older dogs who were used to bullying ((??)) your previous GSD - maybe not the right word. He has the genetics to be stronger, but he needs (ed) more structure and clarity in his upbringing. The bite was in a dogfight - so I would NOT be focused on him being a biter! It is too bad you are so far away....I have a couple contacts here. He needs some firm handling, some structure, and to not be bothered by other dogs in a household.

I hope you find a good placement for him, he looks like a nice boy.

edit to add: I had not read the last page of comments - perhaps a new reality like NILIF and a new trainer and not having such free reign of the house with other animals might help you get a better handle on him...a good foundation and in time, he can mature and be part of the family....I would still TRY to hold off on the neuter until 18 months if possible just due to his needing his hormones...otherwise he will be a "teenaged boy" for life and be more prone to certain injuries like ACL tears.

Lee

 

Ahh these are good words!! Thank you. Yes he’s beautiful! And he’s affectionate and engaged and willing. Yes so far there have been no takers for placement which may be hard and will perhaps prove unnecessary (that’s our current intent, to keep him); but we have not been idle either. We’ve been to several serious trainers (recommended by senior members of this forum) and they all don’t see either dog agression nor human aggression per se. They see “too much freedom”….ie two adolescent intact dogs everywhere….We have changed our lifestyle to crate and rotate. We are getting tighter on training. His blood lines turn out to be good ones according to voices here. So there’s hope! He’s young and we though not young (both 63 plus a 19 year old) may well be trainable. Thank you for your amazing support