Reading this got me curious. Woke my dog up and asked her to stand, she sat. Told her UP and she put her paws on me. Put my hand under her belly to attempt to put her in a position to examine her topline. After a minute of her wiggling around, she gave me a bizarre look, walked away and went back to sleep. I got a good chuckle at myself...

 

Lol! Yeah Who the heck wants to sit still but now after some time I swear Max will give me a nice show stand just to make me happy and does it often. I find it a natural pose and I'm not talking about the exaggerated stretching of the dogs you see at some shows. I like some angulation.. Our poor chihuahua has legs like that horse- straight as a pin - no angulation. Even though our chihuahua can keep up with the big guys with his back by leg paddling. the vet said he will have some serious issues with his back legs in his older years. Our chihuahuas legs resembles quite a few of those gsds from yester year with the butt in the air and many sunken backs. Max is American showline and moderate. He is jumping and a 4 foot tic tack toe board at a kids play ground in the park. He has not much room to get traction and has to be very precise not to hit his head on the monkey bars above him. His conformation does not hinder his athletic ability. People
Don't seem to get no anglulation is just as bad as over angulation. Moderation.

 

Luna a wgsl at 7 months in a stand and a natural stack.

 

This also just popped up on my Google feed. Can most show dogs people on here own stand and balance freely while both pasterns are vertical?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/28/german-shepherds-dying-misery-due-intensive-breeding/

 

Okay, wait. So the kennel club in the UK wants the GSDs pasterns to be straight up and down. Like a fox terrier? Or do they mean the stifles? (Pasterns - front legs, stifles - back legs). Basically NO angulation? Vertical pasterns and/or stifles means no angulation.

 

Here is the kennel clubs press release.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/pre...ress-releases/2016/july/kennel-club-statement-on-the-german-shepherd-dog-(gsd)/

 

I erased what I said by accident but I think what they mean is they want the dog to stand four square. Unsupported I think they mean free /natural stack. There was post about this awhile ago. There was a gsd the won crufts last year or the year before who was extremely angulated and many people were upset which I believe led to the changes.
This is the krufts show I believe in this post that ignited these changes.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=625754

 

Well it seems kinda like everyone is doing potato vs potatoes??? To my eye ... all the dogs represented thus far are what a GSD should look like.

But I stumbled across a "Roach Back" unexpectedly on an episode of Cesar's Dog Nation. The dog had a pronounced "upward curvature to the spine???" I was stunned as I have not seen a single GSD in real life that looked like that ... although most of them around here are usually in pick ups and Subaru's ... going somewhere so who knows??

The dog seemed fine ... but I found it quite disturbing to see?? I did not really care for that look myself ... it just looked "wrong???"

 

I never understood why people obsess so much over the "slope", if you have a good eye for structure you can look past the stack and see the dog's structure as is. Even if there is a "slope" (terrible term btw) to the way the dog is stacked, the back itself can still be straight. Honestly I feel, as Carmspack mentioned, there are other issues that need attention such as roached toplines appearing in some GSDs. I've noticed an increase of injuries with them and dogs that are very short coupled along with super steep croups, often unbalanced in their angles as well.

Also, it's continually frustrating when Horand and other foundation dogs are used as examples. They were just that, foundation dogs, they were not exactly what Max wanted in the breed but they were a starting point. Many had quite bad structure but Max was improving upon it. Here is the very last dog he put up before he passed away, you can see a clear movement away from the structure seen in Horand.
Jalk vom Pagensgrüb

But to further the example of how you can influence the initial impression of the dog with your stack, here are some of the same dog around the same age:

Another dog:

I like this example as you can tell, even in the more extreme stack, that the dog is not extreme in structure. You just gotta develop an eye for it. (In the mean time Linda Shaw's Illustrated Standard for the GSD is a fantastic book).

 

It is definitely worthwhile for people to do some research on the correct structure and conformation of a GSD. I am a working dog person, but I have handled many dogs in the show ring. I have shown my own dogs to get a breed survey and Koer rating. I have handled dogs for others at regional and the National Sieger Shows.

Extremes in any aspect are not practical or desirable, IMHO. Extreme angulation which may be nice for a trot is not going to be great for jumping and holding up over years of working. A dog lacking any angulation is not going to hold up either. There are many pictures posted as examples of dogs with straight backs, which are supposed to be good examples of structure and conformation? Honestly, some aren't very good examples of what a GSD should be, should look like, structure, conformation or a dog capable of doing any work.

It takes a little skill to stack a dog properly. A working dog should have some angulation, not extreme, but some. The stack can be exaggerated by drawing the rear leg back too far, or not far enough, by not having the front legs straight under the shoulder, by not having all four feet positioned properly, etc.

Looking at a dog in a "natural stack" or just standing still often tells us very little about it's conformation. Because a dog has little angulation does not automatically make it a "superior" or more desirable GSD than one with more correct structure, and vice versa. It is so much more involved than that.

I look at the overall dog. The truly great dogs, IMHO can easily do the AD (12 mile jog next to a bike), can jump the 1 meter hurdles with ease, clear the a frame, do very nice OB, and can do other work, in addition to having correct conformation, temperament and drives. It is a total package, not just how the dog looks or how straight it's back is. A straight back is not necessarily a desirable structure and be very leary of breeders that are marketing dogs with "straight backs." It goes along with oversized, "old style", blah blah blah. A sign of a breeder that uneducated, inexperienced and not very knowledgeable.

 

I'd certainly say this is true: It is way, way more involved than just seeing the dog free stacked (or even stacked). I don't even know enough to be dangerous but I know there's a lot that plays into proper conformation. And so much is about how the dog looks in motion.

I should be clear that I don't think my dog is a prime example of GSD conformation. She's my practice dog for a reason! If she were a prime example of GSD conformation, her breeder would have kept her (several of her littermates were kept back). I posted that candid of her strictly to refute the idea that stacking is an unnatural or uncomfortable position for a dog.

 

in this very thread there are numerous examples of dogs standing unsupported , comfortably and with vertical pasterns and hocks.

I have been approached by many owners of dogs with cripplingly horendous soft or collapsed pasterns where the fore - leg is like a tube sock when which pulls off your foot when getting out of a boot.

they are literally horizontal.

the dogs are supported by nutrition and in many a case by specially designed BRACES and cuffs .

same for rears - dogs walking on their hocks -

the dog is in pain , is incapacitated by walking the shortest of distances --- this is what they are trying to fix
and good on them

high time