Licking lips is usually a sign of nausea. Bad breath can be caused by a sour stomach, teething, other things. Vomiting and the sniffles can be caused by so many things it's pointless to try to list them all.

You need to take your puppy into the vet and get her checked out. There are too many possibilities for an internet diagnosis.

 

That's what I would say too. Call the vet.

 

Yes, a vet visit is in order.
Any inoculations or topical flea meds lately?

 

*My vet out of the town for the next 10 days. (That's why I posted here, to see if is it serious or it can wait).

*her last shot was 2 weeks ago, and next one should be today. But, I'm waiting for the vet to come over. (I got an appointment with another on Tuesday, just in case).

*she looks healthy, active, playful, eating, and drinking normally.

Guess the reason of the bad breath is the teething. And the licking lips and nose is nausea.

But what cause the "nausea"??!

*BTW, I was little bit harsh on her in the last week (because of the training).

 

*BTW, I was little bit harsh on her in the last week (because of the training).

Off topic...but what does this mean? How were you harsh on her? Why would you be harsh on her? Do you think being harsh on her is somehow related to her vomiting?

 

Hmmm...shots two weeks ago (were they 5 in 1? were rabies done same time?)...symptoms start 6 days later (or noticed, may have started feeling poorly sooner). Should wait until all clear (absolutely no symptoms of anything incl. soft stool, itchy skin - anything abnormal) - by YOUR gut instinct - not vets go ahead before any more shots. IMO.

 

*When she was 7 weeks old:
Distemper-Hepatits + Canine Parvovirus + Parainfluenza.

* 4 month old:
Distemper-Hepatits + Canine Parvovirus + Parainfluenza + Rabies.

And yes, I noticed she has an itchy skin.

 

What does harsh mean?

 

Yes, licking lips is related to stress (may also be stressed from not feeling quite right), Licking lips prior to vomiting related to vomiting.

Detox vaccine reaction. PM Momto2GSD's (earlier in thread, who posed question of recent vax. and heartworm) You can do a homeopathic detox. Lyssen for Rabies, Thuja for others, there are more. The immune system is undergoing an assault on it right now trying to adjust to these disease intrusions as well as the adjuvants in the vax. (aluminum, mercury, formaldehyde)....Do not do any more all in one shots....each shot at a min. 3 weeks apart...whatever you do, do not do lepto, lyme, or bortadella. Also do not do vaccines at anytime of ill health or with any other med. or pesticides (heartworm). Itchy skin is a clear sign the body is not handling well.

 

It could be stress. There's no need to yell at her. If she's pooping anywhere, that is your own fault for letting her have free run of the house while not completely housebroken and if she's chewing on something, again it is your own fault for leaving it lay around and you fix that by picking your things up and trading her things that are acceptable to chew on.

However, I don't think the lip licking, bad breathe and vomiting are related. I think there is something wrong with her and I agree that you need to take her to the vet.

I also think you need to sign up for some training courses. It's so much more affecting than yelling.

 

*When she was 7 weeks old:
Distemper-Hepatits + Canine Parvovirus + Parainfluenza.

* 4 month old:
Distemper-Hepatits + Canine Parvovirus + Parainfluenza + Rabies.

This puppy only had two vaccines?
She's behind on her vaccines if that is the case.
She is at risk for parvo or worse.

You need to ask your vet - at 4mos. (if they only had one other vaccine) she needs just one more vaccine - the "5 way" you got at 7 weeks - to become current.

Community Practice Vaccination Protocols from the College of Veterinary Medicine

DA2PP
Puppies 6,10 and 14 weeks or 8, 12 and 16 weeks
Repeat 1 year later
Then repeat every 3 years
Each patient should be evaluated for increased risk of exposure – may consider yearly protocols for these patients
Give in right shoulder

Rabies
Start puppies at 12-16 weeks of age
Repeat 1 year later
Then repeat every 3 years or as required by state, provincial, and/or local requirements
Give in right rear limb
****************************
As you can see, vaccines are given in a series of 3 when they are puppies, then again at 1yr. of age, then not again until age 3.

 

you need to follow jax08 advice here.

 

The following vaccine protocol is offered for those dogs where minimal vaccinations are advisable or desirable. The schedule is one I recommend and should not be interpreted to mean that other protocols recommended by a veterinarian would be less satisfactory. It's a matter of professional judgment and choice.


Age of Pups

Vaccine Type

9 - 10 weeks
Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV (e.g. Merial Nobivac [Intervet Progard] Puppy DPV)

14 weeksSame as above
16 -18 weeks (optional)Same as above (optional)
20 weeks or older, if allowable by lawRabies
1 yearDistemper + Parvovirus, MLV
1 yearRabies, killed 3-year product (give 3-4 weeks apart from distemper/parvovirus booster)

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Vacprotocol.html

 

IMHO, after dealing with issues such as this personally, I believe your dog is having vaccination reactions. Dogs' having problems of ANY type (changed behavior is also a problem) should not be vaccinated. Ask to see the Material Data Sheet.
Note Dr. Jean Dodds vaccination schedule that Gator presented. "OPTIONAL" is the key word here. Dr. Dodds is a scientist who has devoted her life to studying these things and then to educated the public.
Here are other references: *Jan Rasmusen www.dogs4dogs.com brilliant site for learning: Dogs vaccinated when they are not healthy, dogs with previous adverse reactions to vaccines and dogs vaccinated within three weeks of a previous vaccination are also more likely to react adversely. Read this article on Protecting Dogs from Vaccine Reactions to find other ways you or your vet may have put your dog at risk.
*Common rabies vaccine reactions, followed by the percentage of reactions reported to the USDA (many of which are also reactions to other vaccines): Vomiting-28.1%; facial swelling-26.3%; injection site swelling or lump-19.4%; lethargy-12%; urticaria(hives)-10.1%; circulatory shock-8.3%; injection site pain-7.4%; pruritus-7.4%; injection site alopecia or hair loss-6.9%; death-5.5%; lack of consciousness-5.5; diarrhea-4.6%; hypersensitivity (not specified)-4.6%; fever-4.1%;, anaphylaxis-2.8%; ataxia-2.8%; lameness-2.8%; general signs of pain-2.3%; hyperactivity-2.3%; injection site scab or crust-2.3%;, muscle tremor-2.3%; tachycardia-2.3%; and thrombocytopenia-2.3%. (Oddly, they don’t list seizures which may occur after rabies vaccination. Click here for more on seizures.)
*Other reactions considered “possibly related to vaccination” included acute hypersensitivity (59%); local reactions (27%); systemic reactions, which refers to short-term lethargy, fever, general pain, anorexia, or behavioral changes, with or without gastrointestinal disturbances starting within 3 days after vaccination (9%); autoimmune disorders (3%); and other (2%).
* Why Veterinarians Don't Recognize Vaccine Reactions | Truth4Dogs
** Dogs Naturally Magazine Rabies Miasm In Dogs
***Dr. Michael J. Fox: Rabies vaccinations, unless in-field conditions make this logistically difficult, should never be given at the same time other combined vaccinations are given. Separate by at least 3 weeks. Dog Vaccination Protocols & Services
****The World Small Animal Veterinary Association, WSAVA (p. 55), says: “It is generally only the adverse reactions that occur within the first few hours to a day after vaccination that are considered vaccine-associated by most veterinarians or owners. Even when the adverse reaction occurs shortly after vaccination there are many who fail to recognize that the vaccine caused the reaction. Certain adverse vaccine reactions are not observed until days, weeks or even months and years after vaccination or revaccination. The autoimmune disorders and the injection site sarcomas, which are among the rare vaccine adverse reactions, may not develop for years after being triggered by vaccines.”
Hope this helps with your decision.

 

*Common rabies vaccine reactions, followed by the percentage of reactions reported to the USDA (many of which are also reactions to other vaccines): Vomiting-28.1%; facial swelling-26.3%; injection site swelling or lump-19.4%; lethargy-12%; urticaria(hives)-10.1%; circulatory shock-8.3%; injection site pain-7.4%; pruritus-7.4%; injection site alopecia or hair loss-6.9%; death-5.5%; lack of consciousness-5.5; diarrhea-4.6%; hypersensitivity (not specified)-4.6%; fever-4.1%;, anaphylaxis-2.8%; ataxia-2.8%; lameness-2.8%; general signs of pain-2.3%; hyperactivity-2.3%; injection site scab or crust-2.3%;, muscle tremor-2.3%; tachycardia-2.3%; and thrombocytopenia-2.3%. (Oddly, they don’t list seizures which may occur after rabies vaccination. Click here for more on seizures.)
*Other reactions considered “possibly related to vaccination” included acute hypersensitivity (59%); local reactions (27%); systemic reactions, which refers to short-term lethargy, fever, general pain, anorexia, or behavioral changes, with or without gastrointestinal disturbances starting within 3 days after vaccination (9%); autoimmune disorders (3%); and other (2%).
* Why Veterinarians Don't Recognize Vaccine Reactions | Truth4Dogs
** Dogs Naturally Magazine Rabies Miasm In Dogs
***Dr. Michael J. Fox: Rabies vaccinations, unless in-field conditions make this logistically difficult, should never be given at the same time other combined vaccinations are given. Separate by at least 3 weeks. Dog Vaccination Protocols & Services

Even when the adverse reaction occurs shortly after vaccination there are many who fail to recognize that the vaccine caused the reaction. Certain adverse vaccine reactions are not observed until days, weeks or even months and years after vaccination or revaccination.

Excellent post Moms'

I just wanted to hi-light regarding the percentages...These are based on "reported"...if you factor in symptoms that never get vet checked or vets that dismiss the correlation, these percentages would likely soar...

 

In the time I've done rescue - some 10yrs. all told, with 3yrs. of that being animal control and the past 6 yrs. being a "formal" rescue, I've only seen two reactions (allergic reactions - swelling of the face mainly, treated with benadryl) to vaccines. Even rabies vaccines are tolerated well and no issues have been noticed or seen.
In fact, we just vaccinated a litter of 6-week old puppies and all are doing wonderful, no reactions, no hair loss, no swelling even (occasionally we'll get a mild swelling at vaccine site) absolutely no issues.

Yet in that same period of time I've dealt with at least 50 and maybe closer to 100 cases of parvo from vaccines not given or given incorrectly (which may or may not be the case here). These were owner surrendered puppies, given up when owners could not afford life-saving treatment.

The risks of distemper are very real too and although we've not personally dealt with that here, we've heard of many cases just 40 miles to the north of us.

Since distemper has at least a 50% mortality rate, and parvo's mortality rate is some 20-30% even with hospitalization, the benefits to vaccinating actually far outweigh any "risks" (which may or may not even be from vaccinations).

http://petsmd.com/Health/Dogs/Distemper-(Canine)

 

Also is it vomiting or regurgitation big difference

 

Heey guys,

Thank you all for your helpful comments.

Last night, she lost her puppy tooth (guess it's the reason for bad breath and maybe the licking)
Also, I always give her a chicken thigh at night, and she eats it on the grass (which I guess the reason for vomiting, because she eating with other things, such as mod, and grass).

I live in a small town, and my vet out of the town for 9 days. Can I delay her last shot for a week?

 

You do not have to get the 3rd shot at all if you choose. See Dr. Jean Dodds Protocol in the other post about the 3rd shot being OPTIONAL. She has researched vaccinations for many years and published studies and is an authority on the subject. Get titers before you vaccinate your baby again.

 

Vaccination reactions may or may not present themselves within the first 48 hours. It could be weeks, months or years! And in many different forms.
I was the perfect pet owner who when getting that little white card in the mail titled “Vaccinations Due”, would run frantically to the phone to get and appointment for the next day, as if the anti-bodies from the vaccinations inside my dear girl just magically disappeared the day the post card went in the mail! LOL!!! I could go on for pages about what happened to my first GSD because of inoculations such as finding her laying in a pool (and I mean POOL) of bright yellow/orange bile that had seeped out of her rectum during the night while she slept, but instead, I’ll relate a story of a certified Delta Society GSD who our son had the honor of welcoming into their home. This was a dog who was allowed to travel in the passenger cabin of airplanes! One day, he was taken and left for several hours at the groomer/vet clinic for a bath. While there, the tech noticed that he was a few months past due on his rabies. She informed the vet and he, without asking, inoculated Zeus! A few days later they came home to find the Christmas tree lying on the floor completely destroyed. A few days later a fairly new easy chair was shredded. Then the ultimate……when friends came into the house, he would jump up and clamp down on their arm, not letting go……this is definitely NOT in a Delta Dogs’ characteristics’….. this was the result of vaccination reaction. I administered homeopathic detox remedies and then followed that by detoxing with herbals. When the adverse reactions were still slightly apparent, we decided to do another series of the same detoxing. It took a few months but he was cleared. What we didn’t see coming was a few years later (after ALL vaccinations were stopped completely) was fissures and then led into aggression. 65% of diseases’ starts in the bowel and most from the immune system being compromised and overloaded. Unfortunately, there wasn’t any form of medicine that would stop this condition and eventually it took this lovely boy.

Articles: The candor of the first article below will be quite shocking to some. The second article explains why vets don’t recognize the problems. “Vets On Vaccines” contains many personal statements from veterinarians who tell how inadequate their training was in regards to inoculations and how they’ve changed. Dr. Arthur Freedman writes: “When I received my training, little was known about duration of immunity and vaccines. I was not informed about possible short or long term adverse effects of vaccination. Once in practice, I observed immediate Type 1 hypersensitivity reactions (anaphylaxis, wheals, vomiting and diarrhea). I’ve also been able to correlate seizures and auto immune haemolytic anaemia with vaccinations. It’s my belief that pet owners ARE NOT BEING INFORMED ABOUT RECENT STUDIES AND ARE JUST FOLLOWING RECOMMENDATIONS.”
Dr. Stephen Blake: “The truth of the matter is, vaccines can set up a latent condition that may show up within a few hours or years after immunization.”
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/vets-on-vaccines/
http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2011/12/17/why-vets-dont-recognize-vaccine-reactions/#more-1346
Dog’s Naturally Magazine has many articles on the subject of vaccination:
The Purdue Vaccination Studies and Auto-antibodies by Catherine O’Driscoll on April 26, 2011 Dogs Naturally Magazine The Purdue Vaccination Studies and Auto-antibodies
Taking The Risk Out Of Puppy Shots by Dogs Naturally on July 12, 2011 Dogs Naturally Magazine Taking The Risk Out Of Puppy Shots
Protecting Your Puppy From Disease: Dogs Naturally Magazine Protecting Your Puppy From Disease
Bordatella Vaccinations: Dogs Naturally Magazine Bordetella Vaccination for Dogs: Fraud and Fallacy
There is also a 4 part video series on vaccinations by Dr. Ron Schultz and Dr. Karen Becker at www.mercolahealtypets.com
Hope this is able to help someone.

 

When a dog is inoculated, if it still has the mothers immunity then it will over-ride the vaccine (but not the adjuvants). The second set is just in case the 1st did not take.

No, that's not correct. The 1st vaccine is overridden by the mom's immunity -then after that they start "taking effect". It may take 2-3 vaccines to completely override the immunity they are born with.

This is why vaccines are given in series.
Now, at 4mos., a puppy has lost it's immunity (from mom), so only two are needed.

Point is, two vaccines must be given, spaced 3-4 weeks apart to be effective.

I take this to mean within hours of?

No. I mean days, weeks, months. I keep in contact with the adopters, and they will notify me if anything is amiss.

And in my own dogs, too, which I have 9 of. If there was going to be a reaction, it would have happened, we would have seen it.

I want to know if you or mom2 have vaccinated 9 of your own dogs who are all living at once, and/or have vaccinated 150 + dogs per year you have kept track of, and are in touch with their owners, to know that no reactions have been seen?

I will say that of adopters dogs, they see much more reactions when their vet administers the Lepto vaccine but we have it plainly on our paperwork that we do not recommend Lepto vaccines and we advise adopters to avoid them when at all possible, same with bordetella, as it's pointless to give that.

I am not sure how you have determined that vaccines are safe

I listed how I determined that above. 150+ dogs per year plus my own.

How did you (or Mom2) determine they were "not safe"?? Just because you can read it on the 'net doesn't make it true :thumbup:

 

Puppy Vaccinations: Why Puppies Need a Series of Shots | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

This explains why puppies under 4mos. need a series, as opposed to puppies over 4mos.

Our current vaccines are excellent at stimulating immunity in older puppies in just one or two shots. However, puppies who nursed on their mother’s milk have maternal antibodies in their blood that block the immune system from responding to these vaccines. These circulating maternal antibodies protect them from bacterial and viral assault while the puppy’s immune system is maturing. But they also prevent the puppy’s immune system from becoming activated by vaccines.

As the puppy ages, the maternal antibody levels decline. By as early as 6 weeks, 25% of puppies have a strong immune response to vaccinations, and by 14 to 16 weeks of age the maternal antibodies have fallen enough to allow a full immune response in 90% of puppies. Veterinarians administer vaccines for the major viral diseases every 3-4 weeks starting around 6 to 8 weeks of age to increase the likelihood that as the maternal antibodies are falling, the lower levels don’t leave the puppy exposed to disease but instead, the immune system is activated

Puppy Vaccinations: Why Puppies Need a Series of Shots | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

 

I was advised by my Vet...a Vet w/40 years experience and has witnessed the decline in health of our pets w/junk food diets (processed), overvaccination, and being drugged to death for superficial problems.

More Vets are starting to realize as they are actively seeking answers and too read and have their eyes opened...

My friends dog @ 11yrs old (small x breed) - chronic chewing on paws, riddled w/arthritis and lashing out in anger. For yrs. every year - vaccine, heartworm, kibble...the dog was wearing a cone to save the paws - treatment option - Steroids, Junk script diet, abx. for "possible" secondary infection...and vax. (which has no relation to helping the issues)

Their Conventional vet of 20 yrs. (now) is retraining himself to incorporate complimentary modalities in an effort to help his clients - this has been well received as more and more people are questioning the over use of conventional meds. and he see's a decline in health and risks of these drugs. He kept this hush from his counterparts as this is frowned upon and used his free time and vacations for elective courses and certification in natural health.

Baily's people were considering euthinazia at the end of summer (this year),as she seemed to be loosing it (they thought mind was going now) The Vet (of all their pets over the yrs.) decided to try a homeopathic detox, cooked food (no kibble) and acupuncture.

This dog has a new lease on life...not only is she not scratching and chewing, she is running, playing and shows no signs of aggression, anger or reason to be PTS.

This after 11 yrs of misery...in 3 months she is doing exceptional

 

I was advised by my Vet..

Ok. So one vet and an internet site?

I agree that pets were over-vaccinated, and I adhere to WSU's every 3 yrs. vaccine protocol and recommend that to our adopters.

But again, puppies need a series as listed above.

See, I could read an internet site that says the moon is made of bleu cheese, but if I haven't visited the moon and saw it for myself and sampled it, then I don't have the proper credentials to say one way or another what it's made of, do I?

My point is - your arguments would have more weight if you had years and years of vaccinating hundreds or thousands of dogs to actually know there was adverse situations, which "possibly" were caused by vaccines??

 

My point is - your arguments would have more weight if you had years and years of vaccinating hundreds or thousands of dogs to actually know there was adverse situations, which "possibly" were caused by vaccines??

To discredit reading as way of learning? What were medical text books used for. I am not talking about reading activist blogs...but lit provided my such links in dogs naturally, much like Mom's provided....

Ref: Purdue University
Dogs Naturally Magazine The Purdue Vaccination Studies and Auto-antibodies


Endnotes
1. “Effects of Vaccination on the Endocrine and Immune Systems of Dogs, Phase II”, Purdue University, November 1,1999, at haywardstudyonvaccines.
2. See www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/gdhstudy.htm.
3. See http://www.avma.org/vafstf/default.asp.
4. Veterinary Products Committee (VPC) Working Group on Feline and Canine Vaccination, DEFRA, May 2001.
5. JVM Series A 50(6):286-291, August 2003.
6. Duval, D. and Giger,U. (1996). “Vaccine-Associated Immune-Mediated Hemolytic Anemia in the Dog”, Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine 10:290-295.
7. New England Journal of Medicine, vol.313,1985.
See also Clin Exp Rheumatol 20(6):767-71, Nov-Dec 2002.
8. Am Coll Vet Intern Med 14:381,2000.
9. Dodds, Jean W.,DVM, “Immune System and Disease Resistance”, at critterchat.net: The Leading Critter Chat Site on the Net.

 

Hi MsVette,
First, let me say that I did not join this blog to argue, just discuss. I joined to learn and share facts and information that my vet of years ago knew nothing about, and, most vets still are not up to date on recent studies. I haven’t had as many dogs as you have (very commendable, by the way) but I, unfortunately, had to learn it first hand from personal life experience, literally trying to save my GSD’s life (when western medicine gave up), for my own personal health, and for two other GSD’s in the family. I’ve also had the honor of helping many, many, dogs over the years. It took years of working with and learning from holistic vets, a Homeotoxicologist, and too many hours to count of book and internet learning and from my personal homeopathic MD that cured me from a devastating illness that conventional medicine could not. I like to say that I think I've graduated from "The School Of Hard Knocks"!!!



I really hope that you will read at least the “Vets On Vaccines” (what they wish they had known) and the “Purdue Study” article of which Dodds & Schultz partnered on. I learned a long time ago (again, had to learn the hard way) that whether person or animal, to keep an opened mind, search and then search some more when it comes to health. There is NEVER only one way.
I think that you are extremely fortunate that you haven’t had any problems, and I hope for your dogs sake they don’t, but you never know IF it will show up, 8 weeks, 8 months or 8 years or older. It could last a day or a lifetime! Apparently, I was just lucky?and ended up with 3 gsd’s with problems. You just never know! All dogs are SO different! I prefer to think I was blessed with these animals to help find a way to allow them to lead the healthiest life that they possibly could with their illnesses. Their bodies, the teacher…..I the student. We had trial and errors, for sure, and had to keep re-adjusting, but the “natural or holistic way” saved their lives.
There are many ways reactions can show up that possibly people are not aware of: itching, hair loss, chronic digestive problems like IBD, IBS, SIBO, allergies and skin problems (which most people think was caused by their food), skin diseases like Ischemic Dermatopathy / Cutaneous vasculitis, yeast, autoimmune diseases, organ disease, haemolytic anaemia, anaphylaxis, arthritis, seizures, epilepsy, muscle weakness, especially lack of hind end coordination, behavior problems: aggression, destructive behaviors, separation anxiety and odd obsessive behaviors (like tail chasing, air licking, invisible fly biting, paw licking). Also, it can cause cancer at the injection site or, the ultimate, death. Believe me; I didn’t make these up…. I'm not that smart! IMHO, I think people see these things during their dogs lives, but, they just don’t realize that what they are looking at…… came from vaccinations. And if their dog experiences a sign/reaction and they continue to vaccinate routinely/yearly, without titering first, they could be in for trouble down the road.

I would also like to share the following study findings from Dr. Dodds and Dr. Schultz:
Minimum Duration of Immunity for Canine Vaccines:
Distemper- 7 years by challenge/15 years by serology
Parvovirus – 7 years by challenge/ 7 years by serology
Adenovirus – 7 years by challenge/ 9 years by serology
Canine rabies – 3 years by challenge/ 7 years by serology
This is why tittering first is SO very important!
I can tell you that my fist GSD had her last rabies, distemper, parvo and the others at 3 years old because of her compromised immune system (our vet was in total agreement). I had her titered yearly, and at 12 years old, right before her death (they said she'd die by 3), she tested for enough Rabies anti-bodies in her system to cover 10 dogs! That’s 9 years of immunity!
My concern is for this pup the post is about. I don’t believe that these newly acquired symptoms are just a coincidence; I think they are a reaction. But I also know that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I would just really encourage the OP to read everything we have all posted and then make his/her own decision about this 3rd inoculation.

 

I would just really encourage the OP to read everything we have all posted and then make his/her own decision about this 3rd inoculation.

With the help of his vet, I agree

And thank you for your kind explanation!