You definitely should yell.
He's not a puppy anymore. He needs to clearly understand that doing it in the house is not acceptable.
Hans tried this crap a couple of times when he was about a year old, he was quickly corrected and didn't do it again for a long time. He did it again last year because of the cat, he was corrected for that, too. Hasn't done it since.

 

By the time I get to where he is its done and he is by the door. I always see him do it out of the corner of my eye and it's such a fast motion. The first time I didn't put it together until Midnitecwas smelling it, then the light bulb went on. If I was right next to him and I stop him that is one thing, but that hasn't happened yet.

 

Lisa,

Absolutely no expert here, but some observations...
My Orick wasn't neutered until he was 2, after I got him. He did breed once before I got him, an oops thing, so I don't know if that makes a difference. He still marks outside a lot, and did inside once or twice when we first moved into this house. Doesn't inside any more. He can be really irritating at times when you're in a hurry to get the job done and get back inside--unless he's really desperate, he HAS to find the spot where Jade peed so he can mark over it. When they're both outside, if he sees her squat to pee, he runs over and I think if I hadn't stopped him the first time I saw it, he would be peeing on her in his rush to mark her spot (why not, he pees on his own front leg if he doesn't lift the back leg high enough, lol). So I think you're right, Apollo is rushing to mark over the other dog's spot. But anyway, I'm not sure neutering would help that.

I'm not so sure about not letting Apollo know you're displeased with marking in the house. If you catch him in the act, I think I would scold. I don't carry on forever, but I have a sound, just one rough, sharp growly "AAHHH!!" that I have used on dogs and horses all my life. It means "STOP whatever you are doing instantly!" They all know it. Then get him outside right away. Has always worked for me, since they already know what the vocal correction means. But he's not going to know that's a banned behavior in the house if you don't tell him, using whatever your vocal correction method is.

When I first got Jade, who had been a breeding bitch, I had problems with her using the carpet in one room as her own personal bathroom. Once she found out I didn't approve of that, she hasn't done it since.

As I said, no expert here, but hopefully this helps a bit.

Susan

 

He does listen if I tell him no or make a noise--now I just have to catch him. He is generally wherever I am, it's very rare not to see him within two feet of me. Both times downstairs was right after he ate. Upstairs was yesterday while I was cleaning and I didn't see it until it was to late. The problem with leashing is the other issue with Midnite. If I leash him to me I think that would make it worse? I don't want him to think that since he is leashed to me he can pull that crap. I could try with a ptong and correct him, which would kill two birds with one stone. I can try it, but I already trip over him at every turn, he is literally right there all the time.

 

I don't think marking behavior ever goes away once it has started, even with neutering.I've had rescues that were neutered after a year of age and they all marked.Only one ever marked inside,the rest were never a problem.

 

Hi, I always thought that if the dog has started marking, neutering will not completely solve the problem. Its a habit.. Once cleaned up, try feeding him in those areas where he marked, sort of like if you 'feed a dog in his crate, he won't mess' idea. Good luck

 

Ha--this is a dog that will pee in a crate any time he is put in there and he did eat in there. I will have to think out of the box with him. This will end, it has too.

 

Yeah, having waited to neuter doesn't have anything to do with it in my opinion. Varik was 2 before I had him neutered, but has never marked in the house. My Rai Li (shih tzu) was 6 months old when I neutered him and I had issues with his marking for the next 10-12 years (yes he eventually stopped ... ugh... probably because his neuropathy started affecting his balance as he aged). Never did it while I was watching which made it incredibly difficult to curtail.

 

Certainly no expert here so take it for what it's worth.

Anytime I found Traveler broke the rules (he is only allowed to poop in a certain section of the yard), I would hustle him back to the no-no area then point and orally scold him. I'm not talking about anything close to rubbing his nose or any of that nonsense, just pointing and with a mean face and hard voice I would blah, blah, No! No poo-poo here! Bad boy! blah, blah. His ears would go back and he'd slink off. They say dogs don't understand words, but they sure understand the look and sounds of a ticked off person.:wild:

If you are just a couple seconds too slow to catch him in the act it may work. Apollo would surely know exactly what you are hollering about since it just happened.

I sincerely doubt neutering would have any effect on this behavior. I think it's a male thing

 

My fear is that there are several males(thankfully 2 don't lift their legs) and they will start smelling it if I don't catch it and they will pee too. Apollo all the way around thinks his poop don't stink. So it's either his hormones or who he is. Not sure I will ever figure that out. He seriously struts his stuff and holds his head high.

 

You know that most owners of male dogs celebrate when their boys finally lift their legs, right? :laugh:
Not suggesting you don't clean it up and if you scold Apollo specifically, I would be pretty surprised if your other males would take up the practice.

When my boy was going thru puberty, he thought he was King Tut and gave me a run for my money. Sounds a lot like Apollo. The good news is eventually they outgrow the cocky attitude. Your job is just to live thru it until then

 

I never had an intact male mark inside my house. Maybe he has an URI.

 

Nah.
Just being a butthead ...

 

Nothing points to medical but I don't have a problem ruling that out. I completely agree he is being as someone else put it, a butthead.

 

What is his history? You have a large group. Maybe he is not handling this well. He could do it to get your attention if he does it in plain sight.

 

You have a large group. Maybe he is not handling this well. He could do it to get your attention if he does it in plain sight.

He isn't doing it in plain site, I haven't really caught him. I've gotten a glimpse, but it was so fast that I thought, did he and then thought nah then find oh yes he did. I don't think he will do it in front of me because he doesn't like me mad at him. He gets lots of attention and one on one time. He still goes to training 2-3 times a week. I do believe this an underlying ussue with him and Midnite, which is his issue not Midnites. Midnite is just very good tempered and walks away. I have been doing stuff with Midnite and Apollo and I step in and stop Apollo if he starts getting a tude with Midnite. Midnite follows what I do.

 

I think you responded before my edit. What is his history? Where and how was he kept before you got him? How old when you got him? Other owners before you?

 

His whole history has been with us. I found him on the side of the road, he was between 8-10 weeks old. Nothing traumatic has happened to him. He loves kids, he plays well with the dogs, not a barker(he doesn't bark at the door either). He is alert and confident, very curious. VERY focused on me. He is a thinker and I can almost see him thinking. I do think he has a stronger personality then Midnite but not as strong as Robyn. The difference that I notice is that Robyn doesn't attempt to prove anything, she challenges no one and they don't challengd her. Apollo seems to be stuck and trying to find his way within the group.

 

His whole history has been with us. I found him on the side of the road, he was between 8-10 weeks old. Nothing traumatic has happened to him.

That seems quite a bit of misery right there in a very formative time in his life. Maybe he was raised in his own filth since he has always done it in his crate.

 

I had exactly the same problem with Bud.
He was 11 months old when I brought him home and had been kept outside on a 6 foot chain from 8 weeks old. The waste around him was literally what he was living on.
He was not super difficult to house train, although he also would soil his crate, and his dishes.
But the marking was bad.
I kept him tethered to me at all times, for months. He peed on other dogs, and on a few people. I finally got a bit nasty. He's horribly afraid of the hose, he was sprayed to shut him up as a pup, so we started keeping it handy outside and if he made a move to mark on anything he shouldn't we sprayed him. I still feel bad, but at that point we had had him for a year and nothing else worked.
In the house, he still isn't allowed free run. He is supervised at all times, or crated. He did eventually get better, but he has proven that when the mood takes him he will still mark. Just a month ago he got Shadows bed and her dish, he hates her.
I wish you luck, and I hope someone has an idea for you.

 

Apollo would love if I used the hose, he carries the thing around and loves any kind of water. The silly pup was trying to grab the leaf blower while it was on high speed. I was trying not to laugh and it was a battle.

 

You could start trying to control the marking outside. Like your walking the dog and he's aiming for a pole. You just say no, and carry on and then say ok where you want him to pee. After a while the dog gets used to it. Then if you catch him in the act at home he knows what the no means.

Dog also might not be getting enough out side time and is simply seeing his territory as the inside of the house. Basically some confusion on his part.

 

Oddly enough he doesn't pee when on walks. I have a screen on the door and weather permitting the door is open and he can come and go, but he chooses to stay wherever I am.

 

I have four males, three are intact. I also have a female (spayed). Nobody marks in the house. All my males, even the one who has been altered, will mark over the female as she squats (she's tiny, they are not). Therefore, she gets to potty in peace.

I believe the marking is a symptom of something else. If you want to stop the marking, find out whats boiling over in your dog's head. Getting your dog neutered won't fix the initial problem.

 

I agree. Neutering won't fix this issue once its started.

Berlin marks outside - but has NEVER once even attempted to mark in the house. He's never actually pottied in his crate. He is a clean dog. But, I will say - I was very diligent with crate training him and using a divider and tethering him to me AT ALL times when he was younger while inside.

I only have two dogs, so maybe the fact you have a pack with multiple males makes him feel like he has to mark his 'territory' inside? No idea.

 

Llombardo another idea: board him somewhere with maybe one other female dog and see how that goes. If I remember and count correctly you have 7 dogs in the house. That could very well be the reason. The fact that he follows you everywhere may (not sure) point to insecurity. Neutering is not going to change anything at this point.
I am just thinking from the dog's point of view.

 

First I am ruling out medical. Then I'm going to get on the contractors butt to install the dog door. During all of this I am increasing training and I'm going to observe him and see if I can pick up on what he is thinking. This all started in the last month, so I do believe that some of this is hormones and him figuring out his way. I will have to help him figure it out.

 

For me, if one of my males begins to exhibit a behavior that is not normal, I step up training on that individual. That includes playing games in the house (carry the towel to the washer, bring me my shoes etc.) to give them a sense of having a job. I do this for two reasons, if my dog is feeling threatened within his status in the pack or if he's trying to over throw someone else, I make him feel more secure and build his confidence and remind him that I am She Who Runs His World. The second reason is working more with him as an individual I can see if he's having trouble with normal commands and focus. If he falters it gives me more information to give to the vet.

 

You can save yourself spending the money for a dog door as it won't fix the issue. He is marking, not relieving.

 

If he were my dog, he would lose his freedom and not be given the opportunity to mark. My 2 year old intact male has never marked in my house. This is a training/management issue, not an intact male issue, and I don't think that neutering would help at this point. I would be more concerned with him having too much freedom and your large pack. You are having an increasing amount of posts about issues and fights within your pack, and your comments about him resource guarding you from Midnite are concerning. I would be looking at an experienced trainer to help sort this out before you have bigger issues to deal with.

 

We are seeing a trainer, training increased once Apollo turned a year. Since I have never dealt with marking I have to determine if this is marking, a potty training issue, or a UTI. It's only been the last week that this has started, so hopefully I caught whatever it is early. He was not easy to potty train because of his issues with the crate, the crate hindered his potty training 100%. I'm not sure where you are getting an increased amount of fights? There have been 3 what I would consider fights total in the house in the last 6 yrs and only one minor injury that required a vet visit, a decision I made to be safe but was probably not needed. All of which I was able to stop on my own. I do agree that the resource guarding(which I have also never dealt with)with Midnite is the biggest issue and my focus is mainly on that, but I get different answers on how to handle that, so the process now is doing a little bit of everything to see what works and it's been a slow process. I'm ok with that because I don't want to make it worse. I got a couple weeks off coming up and we will be working on this in full force. I'm definitely willing to put in the work, as much as needed to get where I find acceptable.

 

I know nothing except what I have seen in multiple dog families. Because of his age and this being a new behavior - ok - I'll say it -dominant dog coming into adulthood. I think you have to go back to basics and consider the purpose of "marking". Then consider that he is "marking" other dogs and certain spots in the house. What message is that sending the other dogs? We know its communication. What is he communicating?

Then, the next question comes up. If this is because of adult onset and marking is what it is - why wouldn't neutering reduce the problem? Isn't testosterone responsible for a male dog acting like a male dog and - marking???

 

I do believe he has the most dominant personality aside from Robyn in the house. The difference is Robyn doesn't display it, she doesn't have a need to and carries herself in such a way that she is respected in the house.

He has marked/peed(whatever he is doing) on two different couches. One downstairs by the back door and the one upstairs, where he hardly ever goes because there is a gate there. The other spot was on the carpet cleaner. I don't get any of the spots but the carpet cleaner? That's an odd spot? That is also by the door to go outside. He does not lift his leg all the time when he is outside, he still squats most of the time.