[Jax08]

People are not going to pay $60 for a weekend where they go home with literally nothing.

and there is the problem right there. They look at it as going home with literally nothing and it being all win/lose. We look at it as getting the rating from the judge and input on the faults/strengths of our dogs so we can breed in an educated way while we put the emphasis on the working titles.

 

[Xeph]

We look at it as getting the rating from the judge and input on the faults/strengths of our dogs so we can breed in an educated way while we put the emphasis on the working titles.

But we don't get that stuff at an AKC. No critiques, no words. Zip. You walk in the ring, get your two minutes, and you either leave with points, or you don't.

You DO go home with nothing in the AKC venue.

People spend a lot of money to get that purple ribbon with nothing else attached to it.

The SV style of showing also has people exhibiting to breeder judges. When I go to a show, the judge I'm showing to that day could be a breeder of Terriers.

A judge I'm showing to next month is/was a breeder of Dobermans. Another judge I showed to a few weeks back breeds Terriers.

 

[Jax08]

But we don't get that stuff at an AKC. No critiques, no words. Zip. You walk in the ring, get your two minutes, and you either leave with points, or you don't.

You DO go home with nothing in the AKC venue.

People spend a lot of money to get that purple ribbon with nothing else attached to it.

The SV style of showing also has people exhibiting to breeder judges. When I go to a show, the judge I'm showing to that day could be a breeder of Terriers.

A judge I'm showing to next month is/was a breeder of Dobermans. Another judge I showed to a few weeks back breeds Terriers.

I understand. That's what I'm saying. That, I feel, is the break down.

So pin the dog the judge feels is best. Give the points. But give input, based on the breed standard, and a rating for the other dogs.

Educate the judges on all breed standards.

There are so many small things, that lead to large things, that an be fixed if people were open to it.

 

[Xeph]

There are so many small things, that lead to large things, that an be fixed if people were open to it.

Do not disagree

 

[cliffson1]

I have always said that the biggest impediment to the breed are conformation Judges. In Germany, though they are knowledgable of working temperament, they have sold out to the almighty " Euro" that is very profitable by continuing to breed for type and character that appeals to the outside world that is ignorant often of the breed or standard. In America, we have all breed shows with Judges that are sometimes never have ever bred a German Shepherd litter, much less understand the nuances of the temperament; and Specialty show Judges that 80% have never titled a dog to any advanced working title to have a semblance of a clue as to true working temperament. In fact, you actually have Specialty Judges that are so ignorant that they believe that the working title created to evaluate the temperament of the breed makes dogs viscous. :crazy: now why would I WANT to show my dog under a person with that knowledge base???

 

[Apexk9]

Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: GSD winner "among the worst I have ever seen" says world's leading locomotion expert

The thing is this dog isn't actually being allowed to move fluidly he was ready to take of at one point and he was stooped dead in his tracks. Hes being restrained and thrown off balance by his handler.
That is one Gorgeous Dog.

 

[mycobraracr]

Look folks, it is what it is. People are too vested in these dogs to change. In my classes, I explain that the German Shepherd is analogous to a pair of " Jeans". In the beginning this pant was a very durable working pant used for a variety of tasks. As the years have moved on breeders created these " designer " jeans for social functions and events. These jeans were not created to be durable and tough enough to be used by working classes on daily basis. But they became popular with a certain segment of population as the " looks and the functions" of the jeans were changed. Today you can get both types of jeans at a store, but it's not hard to determine the difference in the two. Not casting dispersions at either, just acknowledging the fact of the existence. If you want a dog for stressful work or serious endeavors, you get one, if you want one for social events and fun sports, you get the other. Both dogs can be great pets, it is what it is!

This is a great analogy. I'm going to have to steal this.

 

[J-Boo]

And I will say it did make me want to be able to do better myself some day! But let's call that a 10 year plan, if I'm lucky

Oh boy, I have a lot of posts to catch up on in here! But I just realized my post sounded like I could improve on the breed in 10 years - what I actually meant was it would be at least that long probably before I was in a position to even start. Just the one dog for now, and she won't be involved in conformation.

 

[Saphire]

The thing is this dog isn't actually being allowed to move fluidly he was ready to take of at one point and he was stooped dead in his tracks. Hes being restrained and thrown off balance by his handler.
That is one Gorgeous Dog.

That's not what I see at all.

 

[selzer]

Everyone into showing knows who this dog is, and who his breeder is. Is it really the policy of this board to go off on dogs, and their breeders? My guess is the owner or breeder probably feels that the judge judging the nationals is a better authority than a bunch of internet junkies, so they probably don't care, but I think this is really in poor taste.

 

[Xeph]

FTR this isn't nationals. It's just an all breed dog show.

 

[carmspack]

" that the judge judging the nationals is a better authority than a bunch of internet junkies,"

which category does this man belong to ? "This winner is "among the worst I have ever seen," says one of the world's leading canine locomotion expert, Professor Dr Martin Fischer, author of Dogs in Motion, published by the VDH (German Kennel Club)"

oh and then there are the AR's groups .

unfortunately this particular dog has caught the attention and become a bit of a poster boy --

 

[holland]

maybe I look at things the wrong way-maybe he isn't a well bred dog-but someone owns him and hopefully loves him and its sad that he won and people are just ripping him apart-maybe I am just overly sensitive-lol

 

[NancyJ]

While I don't care for the type , he seems like an improvement in being much tighter than others I have seen.

My take is that it is a different direction, that plenty of people are breeding working dogs and GSDs are still being used for police service, and that as long as the dogs are healthy and not in pain it is their right to breed how they like. Rather than run down a showline version of the GSD, others need to be great ambassadors for the breed. JMO

 

[Jax08]

Well to be fair, a good portion of this thread was discussing how to change the AKC system and not even about the dog. It was about incorporating some kind of performance requirement and how the standards and systems differ. And it was a good discussion with Jackie's valuable input.

And Holland - No, you are not being overly sensitive. Yes, the owner and breeder are very hurt. I'm acquaintances with the breeder. He's a good guy. Very much cares about his dogs. And he's pretty upset over the absolute trashing this dog has gotten. Is the dog my cup? No. And Frank knows that. But he's Franks cup. As I stated at the start of the thread, I know he has at least one going for a BH. That's a start in the right direction! And my understanding is he has several herding with their owners. We've also discussed his dogs in IPO but that's his story to tell so I won't repeat his thoughts. Not that they were bad, as he is NOT against IPO and has titled a WGSL. It's more a matter of the perception IPO people have of ASL. I wish he would do it and, like Jackie said in her blog post, prove people wrong. Or learn where the holes in his breedings might be. Either way, he would win.

 

[Xeph]

It's more a matter of the perception IPO people have of ASL

Ding.

I have started talking to people about sending one of my dogs to them to do IPO. I don't have anything against the sport itself, but I'm certainly not going to spend an entire day listening to people belittle American dogs while I'm *right there*.

 

[Jax08]

but I'm certainly not going to spend an entire day listening to people belittle American dogs while I'm *right there*.

I have not had that experience. I've been places where you just know the dog is not cut out for the sport, or you see a dog so shut down from the owner not allowing the dog to think. And I only saw people cheer for the dog when it finally barked or bit the rag. Overall, people are very supportive of the dog.

Egos? Oh yes. lol There are egos. But, in general, people are supportive of new handlers and a good dog is a good dog.
What they don't like to see is a dog not cut out for the sport and the handler insisting it is. It's cruel to the dog.

As you said...go prove them wrong

 

[selzer]

We really discuss our viewpoints about AKC judging, titling, etc. outside of discussions concerning individual dogs. This post was created to dis the American line and the AKC conformation judging, and used a specific example as a beginning point.

I don't think that should be allowed on this site. Individual dogs have owners, breeders, etc.

If we did this same thing to a pet dog, or a rescue dog, a police dog, an IPO dog, that wouldn't fly here.

 

[Whiteshepherds]

Pictures can lie.

My question is, if a dog doesn't walk on it's hocks normally, (which seems to be what some people are saying?) why make it stand that way in the ring?

 

[Liulfr]

So is the handler not experienced with GSDs?