[Saphire]

The "National" show was in Phila. second weekend in Nov, it was aired on TV Thanksgiving. That is the dog in the post.
Westminster is in NY in Feb. Rumor went G4 at that show, she also went BIS in FL at the big Eukenuba show, it was her 100 BIS more than 4600 dogs entered.

I don't have an issue with Rumor, different league and dog than the one being discussed in this thread.

 

[onyx'girl]

I don't have an issue with Rumor, different league and dog than the one being discussed in this thread.

agree, Rumor is a great representation to the breed, handler and breeder should be proud.
The thread is not about Rumor, from what I've gathered.

 

[J-Boo]

I saw this article on FB too - that dog's hocks look awful! It does make you wonder what the other dogs at the show must have looked like. Was it politics that put this dog up front? Yikes, poor fellow.

But yes, I have also since seen this being shared by "old-style flat back oversized low drive" GSD breeders as a jab at ASL breeders as a whole. This is an unfortunate case, but I can't imagine it's representative of all ASL breeding practices out there. My pet GSD from American show lines looks nothing like that/

 

[carmspack]

selzer said "I have seen a lot of American Showline dogs in person, and I haven't seen dogs that look like that. Obviously there are some out there, but neither in the all breed ring or the specialty ring are these dogs popular around here. I have to agree with dogfaeries that this is just out there to inflame."


I have. Zeus and Zeto Fran Jo, Doppelt-Tays Masterkey and others (in person and close up) - they're in the GSD Reviews .

Inflame . Time to burn the institution to the ground - rebuild .

The other dog , the dark black and tan , looks unwell, unhealthy, uncomfortable , unhappy .

 

[dogfaeries]

I don't have an issue with Rumor, different league and dog than the one being discussed in this thread.

For what it's worth, Eukanuba put a terrible photo of Rumor up, right after her win, and the internet blew up over it. "oh what a horrible crippled dog" etc etc. I've seen her more than once, up close, and she is not crippled by any means, lol. There were so many beautiful photos of her, you wonder why they chose a bad one...

 

[onyx'girl]

I never saw that, I only saw photo's of her in excellent coat, and standing with power in her structure.
As far as that poor pathetic bicolor with the soft ear, I wonder if that puppy was fed crap food, kept in a crate and never allowed to be a puppy. The whole body screams of cramped crate and poor nutrition.

 

[Saphire]

For what it's worth, Eukanuba put a terrible photo of Rumor up, right after her win, and the internet blew up over it. "oh what a horrible crippled dog" etc etc. I've seen her more than once, up close, and she is not crippled by any means, lol. There were so many beautiful photos of her, you wonder why they chose a bad one...

The dog in question for this thread has several pictures both static and video. It's been broken down to frames to see the same issues exist when moving.

 

[Xeph]

As a person that was AT the dog show an KNOWS the dogs that were there, let me tell you this: his owners have busted their butts with this dog. Though the dog is being shown by a pro now, he was raised and completely trained by a junior handler. This dog has a stellar temperament, and has no issues with crowds and people and and and. You'll see lots of show dogs lip lick a lot. It is not an automatic sign of stress. We bait our dogs, they want the bait, they drool.

It was not politics that caused the dog to win. The judging was honest. A more mature animal than what I had was put up (My dog went WD on Saturday).

You don't have to like the dog, but how about we don't state things about him that aren't true? Or imply that the rest of the entry was crap just because you don't agree with what was put up.

 

[eddie1976E]

As a person that was AT the dog show an KNOWS the dogs that were there, let me tell you this: his owners have busted their butts with this dog. Though the dog is being shown by a pro now, he was raised and completely trained by a junior handler. This dog has a stellar temperament, and has no issues with crowds and people and and and. You'll see lots of show dogs lip lick a lot. It is not an automatic sign of stress. We bait our dogs, they want the bait, they drool.

It was not politics that caused the dog to win. The judging was honest. A more mature animal than what I had was put up (My dog went WD on Saturday).

You don't have to like the dog, but how about we don't state things about him that aren't true? Or imply that the rest of the entry was crap just because you don't agree with what was put up.

What about the structure of the dog? Those photos and video tell a story. You can praise the owners and how hard they worked (I'm sure they did..I don't doubt that), but that doesn't make up for the way the dog looks. Parts of the dog are touching the ground that shouldn't be touching the ground. If this is what people think is beautiful or structurally strong, then I want the ugliest dog out there.

 

[J-Boo]

I know next to nothing about showing, still learning tons about GSDs and being a dog owner in general, but the way that dog's hocks lay flat on the ground just can't be a "good thing", can it? It just seemed to me that, even if he otherwise is a stellar dog, that has to be considered one severe defect to detract from his chances of winning.

 

[Xeph]

Doesn't matter what I think of it. The judge that day liked him.

I could present pictures of my own animals that paint them in a poor light and people could run with it. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle

 

[carmspack]

the dog is no where near close to the standard . That is what the issue is .
No compartments for an ideal asl , an ideal wgsl -- just one ideal for a fully functional, healthy, GSD .

seems the people with other breeds look on in wonderment at some of the aberrant conformation, embraced by some of the GSD fancy.

 

[Xeph]

Then people need to bring out their own animals to show if they don't like it. That's what I did. I'm doing ok for myself.

It's harder to get a look for my keeper bitch, with her being more moderate and correctly sized. She's also dark, which isn't favored.

I'll finish her. It'll just take longer.

Can't complain about a lack of change if you aren't going to involve yourself

 

[J-Boo]

Doesn't matter what I think of it. The judge that day liked him.

I could present pictures of my own animals that paint them in a poor light and people could run with it. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle

I agree about the truth always lying somewhere in the middle. And as others have pointed out, this particular article was intended to be inflammatory. His conformation just looked so aberrant. And I will say it did make me want to be able to do better myself some day! But let's call that a 10 year plan, if I'm lucky

 

[llombardo]

So this dog has a good temperament, that is great, but what about those hocks touching the floor? That isn't normal in any breed. So my question to those that think this dog is the standard, ard those hocks normal and would you want a dog with those hocks?

I'm not a show person, not even a little bit, but if I seen that dog on the street with those hocks I would honestly feel sorry for him.

 

[Jax08]

Then people need to bring out their own animals to show if they don't like it. That's what I did. I'm doing ok for myself.

I truly believe that there needs to be a requirement for working titles as well. Whether through the GSDCA or the AKC if the GSDCA will not. Balance needs to be stressed at the higher levels.

My understanding is the breeder has quite a few dogs herding. I know at least one is going for its BH soon.

 

[Xeph]

I truly believe that there needs to be a requirement for working titles as well.

It's never going to happen. Even if it did, there are midnight trials in Europe (and here), and it would still occur.

I herd with my dogs, as well as do agility. I have a friend that will hopefully be taking my keeper bitch to the upper levels of obedience for me.

The AKC will never (technically can never) require titles for breeding. They are a registry, not a warden. Those choices belong to individual parent clubs.

 

[Jax08]

I didn't say they should require titles for breeding. I said they should require working titles as well. I meant to say incorporate the working titles as a requirement to show in conformation at those higher levels (just didn't finish my thought! Sorry!)

The reasoning of AKC is just a registry doesn't fly. If they are just a truly just registry then they should not sanction shows nor have any part in any way including sanctioning judges. That should be 100% on the breed clubs.

I don't disagree that midnight trials are occurring, and will continue to do, so but I think just as many people are honest and would do it. You can not improve on a breed when only half of what makes the breed is being tested.

 

[Xeph]

*shrugs* People just have to rely on those who are doing things with their dogs.

I have several dogs from my first litter involved in multiple venues. Waiting for money to improve here, but I should have three dogs going for their HTs next year, undecided if i will do the PT...I will have three dogs to prepare for trial for their A-course started title (mother and two puppies).

 

[Xeph]

It's not even feasible to require other titles to show in conformation. Not with the AKC point system. You don't get a rating every time you enter. 30 dogs can show up, and TWO get points (one dog, one bitch). That's it. All the other class animals go home with nothing.

Dogs can start showing at 6 months of age. Most are not truly ready for sport trialing at that age. Best you can do is the RN and the CGC really. People aren't going to sit on their dogs for a year or more before they start getting them out, and show entries would be in the toilet.