From your schedule it seems that your dog is crated 20/21 hours of the day. So only gets around 3-4 hours of the day where she can walk/move around freely.

I think it really is no wonder that she is crazy when she is out of her crate. I would get up earlier in the morning and take her for a proper walk before work as well as having your wife play with her in the yard. And another walk again in the evening and then if you have people over, have her on a lead beside you with a stuffed kong and start to teach her a 'settle' on command.

My puppy was out of his crate by 5 months and has never chewed a thing (and he is a fairly high drive working line) but he had a ton of exercise and was always ready for a sleep when I left him.

 

Ok wow...well I simply can't respond to all of you here so I'll try to hit some highlights. I think you all are right, and you're absolutely right my original post was simply to figure out if she's crated to long. I thought that the amount I had her crated was normal. It's clear that it's not normal and I need to get her out of the crate more. So we will definitely be doing that tonight.

2nd point I can definitely take her for a walk in the morning. Although she has an issue with her paw right now that I have to take her to the vet on, so her physical activity is going to be limited now. I have no idea what's up with her paw, we've looked at it and we see nothing so it may be internal.

I'm definitely not opposed to having her out of her crate when people are over, I do have one hesitation though. Often times for a bible study kids will come too, like 2 year olds. I just don't know how to handle that. Jada is 60 lbs. and she could potentially hurt one of those kids and I have a liability on my hands.

We've been working with her on jumping up on people etc. in class, but even our instructor said that GSD's are one of the hardest ones to break on the jumping thing. Jumping is considered a self-rewarding behavior, and GSD's are smart enough to figure that out so it can be very tough to break. We try trust me, but she's just not quite there yet. She knows alot of stuff, Jada knows, sit, down, off, up, paw, nose/touch, circle (she goes in a circle), come (although her recall isn't that great yet). I mean we definitely work with her but it sounds like we need to give up more time which I'm ok with.

I'll definitely try working some different angles and adjusting some things to see what happens here. I gotta deal with this paw issue though first cause that's definitely gonna hold us back right now. GSD's are such workhorses...sometimes she acts like nothings wrong with her paw but then other times I'll see her kind of limp on it a bit, but then she'll turn around and sprint full on. So I can't quite figure it out...

 

I'm definitely not opposed to having her out of her crate when people are over, I do have one hesitation though. Often times for a bible study kids will come too, like 2 year olds. I just don't know how to handle that. Jada is 60 lbs. and she could potentially hurt one of those kids and I have a liability on my hands. .

Something to think about: This Bible study is happening at your home. If you can be gracious enough to allow people to bring their two year olds and let them run around and do whatever it is two-year olds do while you're trying to have Bible study (because I'm sure they're not silent and attentive through the whole thing), the other adults can darn sure be gracious enough to deal with your dog, who is probably better-behaved than a lot of toddlers. They (the adults) don't like dogs? Tough. Maybe you don't like their kids.

That said, the kids and the dog do need to be protected from each other. She should be on-leash or kept separate from the little kids.


Big kudos to you for being teachable and willing to change things for the welfare of your dog, by the way.

 

Definitely check with a Vet, as she is 8 months old she is prime for Pano.

As for the crate time, you day schedule is great Evenings just need a little tweaking. You can start off by tethering her to you when you are home. That way you can work on 'leave it' if she tries to pick something up. And when you are just trying to relax the only option she has is to either sit or lay next to you.
Once you feel that she has mastered those techniques start giving her a bit more freedom. Gate only one room, then add another and so on.
I wouldn't leave her out at night until you are sure she won't get into anything. I would rather have a crated dog than a dead one.
Every dog is different, so just because someone has their 5 month old out at night does not mean it is right for you. My 6 month old female is still crated at night and should be.
It sounds like you are doing a good job and just needed a little guidance, the reason why are you here.....we all are.

 

Definitely check with a Vet, as she is 8 months old she is prime for Pano.

That was the first thing that I thought as well. A vet check is definitely in order. Let us know what the vet says.

As for the evenings, I too had a pup that wanted attention ALL THE TIME. and believe me, a chew toy didn't settle him down at all.
He was gated within the family room and kitchen area, which is where we were at night. It drove me batty sometimes that all he wanted to do was play play play. I got him some marrow bones, froze them and he wittled away at it for hours. Ahhh, peace and quiet.
Thing is, once she starts getting used to being around the family in the evening, she'll settle in more. Right now it's an adventure being out of her crate and it's go go go. Kinda like "enjoy it while I can" type of thing.
After awhile of freedom, she'll settle. Don't get me wrong, she'll still want to play, but she'll get there.

If she gets some good strenuous exercise (after the paw problem is addressed of course) she'll likely just want to rest with the family. She might be amped up at first, but trust me, a tired puppy is a happy puppy.
As she matures, she'll also calm down a bit. We all know puppyhood is crazy time.

And Gunner was a huge jumper, and it's not as hard to combat as you think. If you'd like advice on this, please ask and I'm sure some fine advice will come your way.

 

Put some plain yogurt in the Kong and freeze it overnight. Depending on the Kong size it will take at least 30 minutes to get all the yogurt out.

 

I fill a Kong with dog food and seal it with peanut butter and freeze it for my mixed breed dog and dog food and liverwurst for Wolf.

 

It took my dog a little over 20 min's to get his kibble out of his Tug-A-Jug and he is an adult.

It will take your pup a little longer, hopefully.

 

My dog had pano from 4 - 8 months. But to get on topic>>>>>>>
I am wondering why you got a dog if it is just to observe from afar and take out at your convenience. At 8 months your dog should be well-behaved though high energy. That is what a GSD is. We get up at 4:30 in order that our dog will get time, attention and exercise. I have a 1 hour commute each way and I am gone from the house from 6 - 4:30.
A dog walker comes for a half hour at 11:30. At 4:30 I come home and take her for an hour of walk/jog/play. She is free in the house the rest of the day and night until 4:30 a.m. We have been doing this since 5 months of age. By the way, she has never asked to go out. She just holds it until we bring her out, which we do 5 or more times a day.

 

If I'm understanding correctly, the Bible study occurs one night out of the week, correct?

If so, I see no reason why your pup can't be crated during that time. It sounds like she's content to be in her crate so there's no reason she shouldn't be able to stay in her crate for the majority of the Bible study. Perhaps on that day she can get a longer walk in the morning or just before the Bible study begins.

BTW, I agree with the frozen Kong idea, although my GSD female can get anything out of there (frozen or unfrozen) in 10 minutes flat.

 

If I'm understanding correctly, the Bible study occurs one night out of the week, correct?

If so, I see no reason why your pup can't be crated during that time. It sounds like she's content to be in her crate so there's no reason she shouldn't be able to stay in her crate for the majority of the Bible study. Perhaps on that day she can get a longer walk in the morning or just before the Bible study begins.

BTW, I agree with the frozen Kong idea, although my GSD female can get anything out of there (frozen or unfrozen) in 10 minutes flat.

It's actually once every other week haha. And that's thing I'd argue that my dog loves her crate. If I say "crate" she goes to it and lays down typically, not of course that's not a 100% but I'd say 80% of the time she does. She's been rewarded for every time she goes, so she knows crate = treat. She also doesn't leave the crate until she's freed. We open the door and she sits there and waits until I say "free." I think this is the main thing that has messed me up. I just assumed that our crate time must be right because she is happy in there. She never cries in her crate. The only time she ever cries is when she has to go poop, and that's very rare. Maybe once a week I hear her cry in her crate and if she ever does that I immediately go get her and let her out.

I love the Kong idea, the frustrating part is, I've heard of that idea. Why I don't do it I have no idea...I guess I'm just an idiot. I need to develop some routine. I never have the thing frozen when I need it to be frozen. Just gotta work out a freezing schedule. I was actually freezing canned food...but I love yogurt idea too. I only have one kong and it may be time to invest in a couple more so that I can always have like 3 freezing.

For some reason I've always fed her and given her all her treats in her crate. I read so much about getting dogs to like there crate, "do this and do that" I honestly think I went way overboard with it. I never giver her things like frozen kongs, ice cubes or things that take her a long time out of her crate. She only ever gets normal toys and normal pea sized treats outside of her crate. I just gotta switch up my routine clearly...

 

You could also look into an exercise pen like this one:

You could put her in it and give her her dinner in a Tug-A-Jug or Treat Stick (google those). You'd need to teach her not to jump on the sides of the pen, but she would be moving around and engaging her brain to get her dinner out of the toy, but still in her pen and not bothering anyone.

 

This is one of those situatiosn where it's going to get worse before it gets better. She's been crated so much that she hasn't learned how to interact in a home properly. You'll have to spend the first couple of weeks treating her like an overgrown puppy (which she is) because she will be very hyper, very distracted, and very needy and wanting you to interact with her, because up until now, everytime she's out of the crate you've been interacting with her.

Get her out, tether her to you, and exercise her like crazy (running, biking, ball throwing in the backyard, etc). Then bring her inside.

 

Haha...this makes alot of sense and it explains her perfectly. We are interacting with her nonstop when she's out of the crate. Which we though is what we're supposed to do, and I thought when we can't interact with her she should be crated. I'm discovering now that, that's not necessarily true. We need to let her interact with herself out of the crate.

@Emoore - I just see that pen and laugh, I don't mean that to be rude, but I'm just saying it to say there's no way. I wouldn't even know where to begin training her to stay in something like that. We actually have a pen very similiar to that. Anytime we put her in it...she jumps up on it and pushes it right over. I have no idea how to train her not to do that?

 

Bully sticks keep them occupied too. The first few times though, Gunner got some horrific farts from them.
But it was worth it to keep him occupied.

 

What is pano? What is the real name for it...i can't find anything on it?

Scratch this...I found it. Ugg sounds awful...however I can tell you she's in no pain from what I can tell. She's never whimpered or anything. In fact I've touched her paw and squeezed it and everything all up and down her leg and she doesn't let on like anything is wrong. I can just tell she walks funny sometimes. Not sure if that changes anything, but just sharing my observations...

 

What is pano? What is the real name for it...i can't find anything on it?

Here ya go.

Panosteitis in Young Dogs

 

Pano can't be treated but unless you know it's Pano it's worth a look. For instance my Zoe has been really itchy and has scratched a huge bald spot in her side...could have been mange or nothing, but today and $300 later it's not mange it's allergies. However, if it were mange and went untreated it would have gotten really bad so it was worth it.

Look in between her paw pads- my lab had the tiniest thorn thing stuck in his once and I checked multiple times before I finally found it. He would run and play like normal and then every now and then kinda pick it up. I could squeeze and feel it without a wimper or sign of pain but I guess when he stood just the right way it poked him. I found it and plucked it out with tweezers,lol

 

Pano can't be treated but unless you know it's Pano it's worth a look. For instance my Zoe has been really itchy and has scratched a huge bald spot in her side...could have been mange or nothing, but today and $300 later it's not mange it's allergies. However, if it were mange and went untreated it would have gotten really bad so it was worth it.

Look in between her paw pads- my lab had the tiniest thorn thing stuck in his once and I checked multiple times before I finally found it. He would run and play like normal and then every now and then kinda pick it up. I could squeeze and feel it without a wimper or sign of pain but I guess when he stood just the right way it poked him. I found it and plucked it out with tweezers,lol

This sounds exactly like it. I'm gonna check again. Maybe I gotta bust out the magnifying glass. She doesn't exactly LOVE letting us touch her paws. She's pretty good with it, but it's not like she lays over and just lets us look haha...so I probably need to check again.

We have a friend that comes to the bible study that owns a adult GSD. He's gonna start bringing him over so the two can play in the backyard while we bible study. I think this is a good idea...Jada loves to play with other dogs.

 

I can definitely relate to a busy working schedule as we both work full time as well so I will try to give you some advice from my personal experience. (my pup is now 10 months)

We also leave our dog alone all day while at work about 7:30am-4pm but he is not in a crate he is in a 5'X15' dog run outside (in cold temps he is inside and one day a week he is at doggie daycare) Perhaps there is a room in the house where you could put up a baby gate and she could stay there allowing her some more room to move around and play. Also, maybe look into a doggie daycare once or twice a week that you could put her in to get some energy out. We put our guy in at least once a week and sometimes on days where we know we will be out at night so he has a chance to get a lot of exercise that day. Daycare is obviously also a really great way to socialize her with other dogs.

As far as keeping her in the crate at night and when you are home I do agree with some of the other posters that this is a bit excessive. I don't think that any puppy ever naturally entertains them self or doesn't get into things but if she is never given the opportunity to learn how to do these things she wont know. Yes she will try to chew the carpet where you then discipline and then she will learn not to to this. Same with learning how to act when a lot of people come over and how to be disciplined and stay where she is told to stay when you don't want her bothering people during your bible sessions. We have a bed at the far end of the kitchen where our guy has to stay while we eat, maybe try putting a bed in the room with you during your sessions and train her to stay there until released. It will be a pain at first, every time she gets up say no and put her back. Over and over and over and she will slowly learn to stay there because when she gets up she doens't get away with it. If you don't train all of these things now she will never be able be around during these times as she doesn't know how to act.

In terms of the kids issue. Our guy is 10 months and 76 pounds and we also don't have kids and yes i too worry that he will accidentally knock a child over. But they have to learn or they will NEVER know how to act will never be able to be around kids. Keep a very close eye and like someone else said perhaps keep her leashed if she gets to rough, correct, if she gets to hyper, correct.It wont take very long for her to learn proper behavior around children. Our pup had never been around kids until a few weeks ago and he first jumped up and was corrected and after that he played with the kids all night, they just loved throwing the ball for him and of course he loved that too!

Anyways i hope this helps and best of luck with your pup!

 

Personally, I would take the dog to the vet to rule out anything major. If it is pano, your dog will eventually grow out of it. But if it isn't, I know I would want to know what is causing my dog to be lame on a foot/leg.

 

I'm a stay at home mom and I know you didn't want any advice from people that stay home but thought I would chime in anyway. I really think you should tether your dog to you at night. I do this at night, & trust me I'm exhausted mom of four kids with twins. After supper and this is the time my husband is getting home I take Charlie, my pup outside and excerise him in the yard with a flirtpole. Maybe I missed it but didn't see that mentioned. Google it, but I made mine out of a horse whip and one of those skineeze dog toys. I can walk Charlie around our block a couple of times and that doesn't wear him out but his flirtpole will. Then I do some training sessions. We built him a kennel (4x6) in our storage room so I put him in there while I put the kiddos to bed and then when we settle down for the night I tether him to me and he is much calmer. He ususally chews his bully stick while laying by us. I highly recommend bully sticks! My pup doesn't like the kong with peanut butter and he doesn't chew on any of his chew toys but he loves those bullys sticks. He is also tethered to me while I have people over. That way I can correct him for jumping and that puppy biting. Sometimes I don't want to mess with him while I have people over but how else is he going to learn? Maybe not for your bible study group but if you have other opportunities I would use them. I crate Charlie only when he eats and at night while we are sleeping. I know I stay at home so my situation is different but I highly recommend making a flirtpole and using that as a different form of exercise. I also use an exercise pen in my living room but you will definitely have to have patience to teach an 8 month old not to jump on it. Hope that helps.

 

I'm a stay at home mom and I know you didn't want any advice from people that stay home but thought I would chime in anyway. I really think you should tether your dog to you at night. I do this at night, & trust me I'm exhausted mom of four kids with twins. After supper and this is the time my husband is getting home I take Charlie, my pup outside and excerise him in the yard with a flirtpole. Maybe I missed it but didn't see that mentioned. Google it, but I made mine out of a horse whip and one of those skineeze dog toys. I can walk Charlie around our block a couple of times and that doesn't wear him out but his flirtpole will. Then I do some training sessions. We built him a kennel (4x6) in our storage room so I put him in there while I put the kiddos to bed and then when we settle down for the night I tether him to me and he is much calmer. He ususally chews his bully stick while laying by us. I highly recommend bully sticks! My pup doesn't like the kong with peanut butter and he doesn't chew on any of his chew toys but he loves those bullys sticks. He is also tethered to me while I have people over. That way I can correct him for jumping and that puppy biting. Sometimes I don't want to mess with him while I have people over but how else is he going to learn? Maybe not for your bible study group but if you have other opportunities I would use them. I crate Charlie only when he eats and at night while we are sleeping. I know I stay at home so my situation is different but I highly recommend making a flirtpole and using that as a different form of exercise. I also use an exercise pen in my living room but you will definitely have to have patience to teach an 8 month old not to jump on it. Hope that helps.

Nah I appreciate these suggestions. There's some great ones in there. I've looked into the Bully Sticks. They sound so disgusting lol...but we're gonna buy some. Where do you guys buy these though? Online? I've never seen them in stores?

Also I've heard of the flirt pole and I have no doubt that Jada would love it. She loves interactive toys. Anything that moves...I just haven't gotten around to making one. Which is another lame excuse...I just need to spend the time to MAKE IT! That's also going on my goal list for this week. Make a flirt pole! We also have talked about making a kennel outside for her...it's just a matter of making it happen also. I gotta be like Nike and "Just Do It!" (Sorry for that lame cliche...I couldn't resist though)

 

I'm amazed at how much mental stimulation tires these puppies out!

We had a very busy Saturday, mostly revolving around Eva (6 months) and the dog food store, the vet to get her tag, the beach, a restaurant, and then a cancer benefit.

Except for the beach, not much running, and she was tired for a good two days afterward!

So, my suggestion is more mental stimulation. Clicker training, the flirt pole someone else suggested, new places (even for a short time), that type of thing.

 

I'm amazed at how much mental stimulation tires these puppies out! ...snip....

So, my suggestion is more mental stimulation. Clicker training, the flirt pole someone else suggested, new places (even for a short time), that type of thing.

:thumbup: I agree. If you can take 10-15 minutes a night and substitute mental games for some of her physical exercise you'll probably start to see a difference in her behavior.

 

I used to take my dog to doggie day care. I can't tell you how much she enjoyed going and she would be exhausted...physically and mentally afterwards. I only took her there twice a week for about 5 months. It was a great experience for her.

 

I totally agree on doggie daycare, i really can't suggest it enough. When we pull up to daycare Capone starts running in circles on my backseat! lol

 

I'm actually not a fan of doggie daycare... but then again I'm not a fan of dog park like settings, either. I have heard too many horror stories... and know that my "dangerous" breeds would be blamed for issues even if a "softer" breed started it. It just seems like too much uncontrolled chaos. I also have a very nervy GSD boy that would be a wreck if he had to go someplace every day. He positively THRIVES on routine, and that routine includes being crated or kenneled when mom & dad are gone. He is extremely high energy, but even with the hours in the crate he is content, provided we give him enough exercise (physical and mental) when we are home.

Plus... even though my hubby and I both work full time there's no way we'd be able to afford a doggie daycare.

 

The doggie daycare I took Uschi too was at a private home and the owner had 3 dogs of her own and she would take in up to 6 more dogs of all sizes. The owner was also a dog trainer. The dogs were monitored the whole time. It was great.

I'm not a fan of dog parks though...seen too many dogs left to their own devices while their owners are sitting, listening to their ipods and reading.

 

**UPDATE**

So here's where were at today...since this post caused a firestorm I figured I'd update you all so you're not all continuing to call CPS!

Shopping - Went to Wal-Mart and Petsmart. I bought two more Kong like contraptions. I actually like the rip-off brand they sell at Wal-Mart better so I got two of those. Also got some non-fat yogurts, baby food, some canned food. And I bought a tug and jug as many of you recommended. tonight I build my flirt pole! Oh btw she totally doesn't get the tug n' jug. She just looks at me like...seriously can't you just put the food in a bowl? She refuses to get it out...I shook and showed her how there's food in there and it comes out but she was totally uninterested in getting it out herself.

Day 1 - I got home about 4:45 and let Jada out. She went outside and played for about 45 minutes then she came in. We trained for a bit and she just kinda roamed around. I fed her OUTSIDE of her crate at around 6:00 and she was so confused haha! She kept going into her crate and I'd call her back out and point to her bowl, she'd run back to her crate, and I would be like "No you don't have to eat in there" I'd call her back out and so we compromised. She would grab a mouth full of food and take it back to her crate, then come back out and get some more. It was cute...she just didn't understand the freedom.

Anyway around 7 o' clock bible study happened. I had an atendee bring over there 110 lb. beast of a GSD and they played outside for the full 1 1/2 hours. Jada was EXHAUSTED by the time I let her back in but she still had more. Everyone left and I let her settle down with her newly frozen kong. She worked on that for a good long while but again she wanted to take the Kong to her crate. We let her take it we just didn't shut the door so she kinda came out and went when she pleased. By this time it was bed time, we tethered her and she settled down pretty quick and fell asleep. Then about 1 AM she woke up and started causing havoc so I did crate her for the remainder of the night. I don't think she's quite ready for workday night tethering. However, we're gonna work with her on the weekends. It's just to much for us to handle...I can't settle her back down every hour while trying to sleep for work

All in all yesterday went a very similiar way. She's a handful, as she wants to chew everything and anything but it's going ALOT better than expected...tonight I'll construct the flirt pole. I have no doubt she's gonna like that.

 

GREAT JOB!

Give her time, she'll adjust to her new freedom

 

:thumbup:

Yep, given time she'll realize she doesn't have to go to her crate.
And she may just not be ready for sleep time outside the crate yet. Gunner was over a year old before he earned that freedom.
As for new toys and such, give that time too. I've gotten things for Gunner that he didn't touch at first. Then next thing you know he's going to town with it.
Best to rotate what toys she has so she doesn't get bored with them. Gunner has two toys that are always out but the rest are rotated. Then when I take one out he hasn't seen in a while, it's like a whole new experience.

 

Great job!! (Don't worry folks, we have pm'd and we are good)

 

I love when people can be adults and work out their issues. Good to hear.

 

Mine is 7 mo old and always wants to play at sleep time. he hasnt been in his crate since he was 5 months at all. When hes creating a fuss at bed time I ignore him. I lay down and he'll come running up and do his whimpering "I wanna play" stuff. But it last for 1-2 minutes and then he lays down and lets out a big grunt/sigh like a little kid not getting his way.... and then goes to sleep.

Ive left him out during the day since he was 5 mo old. He got in a few things but not too much. I previously had a great dane, so my house is fortified dog proof. I got a radio and play the oldies all day for him while im gone.... surprisingly this ended pretty much all chewing on anything.. He must love to rock and roll.

 

After Gunner was given his "freedom" he never went back in the crate.
His choice. He never had a problem going in the crate and I never heard a peep out of him when he was in there. But once he was no longer required to go in there, he didn't.

After about a month of non use on his part, we disassembled it and put it in the garage.
I've never regretted it either. He has never once gotten into anything, destroyed or chewed anything. It's almost like he appreciated the freedom and didn't want to do anything to ruin it.