Just a reminder to everyone that many dogs who come from expensive breeders do end with health problems, including HD and ED. There are no real guarantees, no matter how much you pay.

When you adopt an adult who is in a foster home with a reputable rescue you do get a much better idea about temperament than you can with a puppy. And many foster homes do have kids.

 

I wouldn't see why not? Perhaps someone from rescue can answer that?

 

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowJust a reminder to everyone that many dogs who come from expensive breeders do end with health problems, including HD and ED. There are no real guarantees, no matter how much you pay.

Absolutely, my Urro comes from an A-stamped mother and A-stamped OFA - Excellent father-normal elbows, both parents with many generations of A-stamps behind him. But he has crippling ED.

You stack the deck in your favor but it will still rear it's ugly head from time to time.

 

we put away $50 to $100 a week away untill
we had enough to buy a dog. everything else that comes with
having a well taken care of dog we could handle.

 

i do agree that maybe you should consider getting an older pup, you would certainly be able to better see the temperment.....

this is definitely the route i will be taking from now on.....

 

I think the "inexpensive option" is rescue/shelter, or finding an unwanted dog on Craigslist. If you are cheaping out on a breeder, then you're not going to get the same quality and support anyway so you might as well save a dog that's already in trouble.

 

I would more specifically look at Owner Surrenders. I know alot of people in Animal Rescue in my area, and whenever they get in Shepherds they always send me emails.

They just sent me an email of a gorgeous 1 yr old Dark Sable male that was an owner surrender. Not enough time/money and they give up the dog. There are lots of these kind of dogs out there. And then you get a dog, that didn't really go through as much trauma of being stray and are often housebroken and familar with living in a house. These are great dogs to start with. And for your peace of mind you can always get Xrays on your own before you commit. I've never known a rescue to deny Medical testing at someone else's expense...

And can you get great dogs less expensively? Of course. I didn't pay much for my dogs, and they are from quality lines and I really liked what I saw in terms of temperament. Of course I knew what I was looking for. Some people breed and they don't know what they have (And this is clearly the exception and not the rule). And there are frequently people who cannot afford the $1500 puppy who work some kind of co-own for people who will commit to training/titling. I know many breeders who are usually willing to come down in price for people that they know, who will train and provide good homes. The home is mroe important than the money. It might be to your benefit to get involved in some clubs to get know people. Explore your options.

 

While getting a pup from a breeder can stack the odds in favor of a good outcome based on the known factors of the genetics in the bloodlines, health testing, titles/temperament testing, etc... and thus may seem more of a sure thing than a rescue, that only applies if it is a GOOD breeder who does those things.

IMO, if one cannot afford to buy a pup from a good breeder, than getting a dog from rescue is no more of a risk than getting a pup from a BYB or otherwise disreputable breeder. And has the added advantage of rescue.

Many breeders will offer payment plans on their pups.

However there is the additional concern that if money is too tight to afford a pup from a good breeder, does the person have the finances to properly care for the dog in terms of good food, training, vetting? And then of course what if the dog needs expensive medical care either due to a health issue (can happen in even the best bred pups) or an accident? Really the initial purchase price is often the least costly part of having a dog.

 

Yeah, posting your location would definitely help.

My breeder has an adult for sale (I dont know the price), but she is looking to place him somewhere near CT.

He is a grandfather of the little girl we will be picking up on Saturday.

Absolutely amazing dog (in my non-expert opinion)
http://www.vongrafenstein.net/DogsForSale.html

 

Please don't support a BYB, they'll never go away as long as people continue to buy from them

 

I definitely do not want to support a BYB, nor an irresponsible breeder. And I won't get a dog/pup unless finances allow for correct care. Just wasn't sure what my options were. I thought maybe there are responsible breeders out there who charge less for pups that are not quite what they are looking for in their program, or not qualified for whatever work or show they were bred for (pet quality).

Owner surrender is an option I hadn't thought about, too. Thanks for that suggestion!

My son and I used to volunteer at the humane society every week and we worked with a lot of what they called "problem" dogs, which probably shaped my view of rescues. Last year my son volunteered for P.O.P.P. as well. But I can see where having an actual RESCUE involved to temperament test and find a good match would possibly work.

I have a lot to think about.

 

Thank you for not taking my post as a slam

I didn't mean it that way and also posted it for others that may come along later and read this thread.

Most breeders do charge a bit less for their "pet quality" puppies, but you're still talking about much more than you'll find in the news paper for a few hundred dollars.

I admire that you're doing so much research first, it's a lot of work to find just the right pup/dog and breeder/rescue!

I would probably not adopt straight from a shelter, but I would adopt from a rescue. A well run rescue has knowledgable people that know GSDs and can give a lot of insight into the dogs in their care.

 

Originally Posted By: cassadee7

Owner surrender is an option I hadn't thought about, too. Thanks for that suggestion!

Some rescues will post courtesy posts on their petfinder site so keep an eye on those.

Quote:My son and I used to volunteer at the humane society every week and we worked with a lot of what they called "problem" dogs, which probably shaped my view of rescues.

The dogs are so different once you get them out of the shelter environment. I just pulled one boy from our local shelter that they were going to put down due to "dog aggression".

Once I got him home he was the sweetest dog who only wanted to play with the other dogs. He was phenomenal with Jax. Once he's with the rescue for awhile they will be able to evaluate him and place him with a home that fits.

 

Originally Posted By: cassadee7

Owner surrender is an option I hadn't thought about, too. Thanks for that suggestion!

My son and I used to volunteer at the humane society every week and we worked with a lot of what they called "problem" dogs, which probably shaped my view of rescues. Last year my son volunteered for P.O.P.P. as well. But I can see where having an actual RESCUE involved to temperament test and find a good match would possibly work.

I have a lot to think about.

Yes, just remember a SHELTER and a RESCUE and not at ALL the same thing! Shelter has esentially one purpose--to move dogs in and out. Plus, the chaos of shelters and the general atmosphere can sometimes bring out the worst in dogs. A RESCUE that fosters their dogs in real homes is an amazing way to evaluate the dogs in many different circumstances and to get to know their real personalities--good of bad. IMO, an ADULT from a rescue is the absolutely best way to guarantee a good temperment.

 

We have had dogs from several different situations. Bear and Moose were both Humane Society rescues. I completely agree with Jax08 that they acted very differently in the shelter environment. It was difficult to tell their true temperament. Bear was very calm and cuddly at the shelter, but ended up being a very hyper and active dog. Moose acted very confident and aloof, but turned out to be weak nerved.

Gator was located through the local GSD rescue. He was in a foster situation. The foster care giver was able to tell us about his temperament. We were also able to take Moose with us and allow them to play together to see if they would get along. Gator was a great dog, but had health problems that showed up after the adoption.

Bison was purchased from a good breeder. She was able to describe the temperament of his parents and he is a mix of the two. He does have a genetic health problem, but it is minor.

I think what is most important to consider is that no matter where you get a dog, you risk it having a problem of some sort. You should be prepared mentally, emotionally, and financially to love and care for the dog no matter what.

 

Originally Posted By: cassadee7"you don't need to spend $1500 to get a great dog."

you absolutely do not. Tilden was $32, BUT...

although he's a GREAT dog. he still may not work for everyones household. that said, its hard for me to think of many situations in which he wouldnt work out, but my point being - there is only so much research you can do online. you take the recommendations, then you get out there and meet some dogs, meet the breeders, visit rescues, etc. its going to take a lot more than someone elses experience for you to make the best decision for your family. there are some breeders that i know are phenomenal... still doesnt mean they'll have the type of dog i want. people can give you a list of positives and a list of negatives, but getting out there yourself will give you the questions that are important to you, that you may not have thought to ask before.

 

Another thing, if you find a breeder you trust, they may have a dog returned to them for non-health-related reasons, so you'd get the best of both worlds; knowledge of the bloodlines and a dog (usually) out of the 'puppy crazies' stage.

 

i got a pup from a reputable breeder with fear/insecure issues, plus he was extremely infested with roundworms which took me forever to get rid of......it can't be good for a young pups health to be that loaded at such a young age to the point where it took me almost a year to get rid of them......he came with them, i never ever had any worms issue here with my other pups. i can maybe understand a few, but being that loaded obviously whatever wormer she used isn't the right stuff.....i should have never had to witness what came out in his stool 5 days after he came to me and thereafter..........and i really think that infestation took a long term toll on his health and possibly his temperment nuerologically or otherwise. because he should have been a stable dog coming from the parent he did.....i would have had better luck going to a BYB.........i am telling my side because it happens.....i am sure there are repuatble breeders out there but i am extremely gunshy after this trip.........

 

not to divert the OP's topic,,but can worms like that, affect a dog neurologically??

I remember once, I had a dog with worms,,when I adopted Sami (at 12 weeks) ,,i took her to the vets prior to bringing her home, and said "I want a wormer",,vet said, "oh her fecal is negative",,I said I didn't care,,she wouldn't give me one,,next morning, that dog was pooping out the longest worms I ever saw in my life,,made me gag,,I called them up and said "NOW give me a wormer" LOL..

Ok sorry to hijack the thread.

 

Originally Posted By: debbiebi got a pup from a reputable breeder with fear/insecure issues, plus he was extremely infested with roundworms which took me forever to get rid of......it can't be good for a young pups health to be that loaded at such a young age to the point where it took me almost a year to get rid of them......he came with them, i never ever had any worms issue here with my other pups. i can maybe understand a few, but being that loaded obviously whatever wormer she used isn't the right stuff.....i should have never had to witness what came out in his stool 5 days after he came to me and thereafter..........and i really think that infestation took a long term toll on his health and possibly his temperment nuerologically or otherwise. because he should have been a stable dog coming from the parent he did.....i would have had better luck going to a BYB.........i am telling my side because it happens.....i am sure there are repuatble breeders out there but i am extremely gunshy after this trip.........

What was the breeder's reaction? I'd be hesitant to call anyone "reputable" if once you paid for the pup they cut you off completely and offered no explanation or support.

 

Roundworms are very common in pups, and you have to do a 3 treatment protocol of Strongid every 2 weeks to irradicate them. The vet should have been the one to help you w/ this, I don't blame the breeder for that, and if they were being expelled, she must have wormed them shortly before you picked him up. I think if a pup was so infested there could be nutritional problems, which could in turn cause neurological problems.
The fear/insecure issues are another issue, I would think that is more genetic if it was seen from the getgo-or a combination, of the biosensor/socialization program not being implemented early on by the breeder.

 

i really didn't get much of an answer except that the pups were wormed................whatever was used for worming obviously didn't work. i know that mothers will sometimes have worms, but shouldn't a breeder make sure the mother is worm free before she gets pregnant? i would think that would be the healthiest thing for the offspring....
my vet told me that in really bad infestations the worms migrate into other areas of the body, i don't know if even regular worming could address a worm that might have migrated into the brain, etc. but i do know a worm in any of those areas could cause issues. i am basically still trying to figure out what went wrong with this pup........he should have been a stable solid dog...............and No i really haven't gotten to much from the breeder. yep.i was offered a replacement and 1/2 refund.......maybe some could give up a dog at 6-7-8 months old but something i couldn't do......so, choosing to keep him looks like i am on my own............its easy to offer refund or replace, but harder to admit that one of the offspring isn't just right.............

 

The mother passes on the worms to the pups, it is very common and I think inevitable. Just natural. My pup came home right after a worming and the first fecal showed clean, two weeks later, he had roundworms. We did the treatment above and he has been clean ever since.

 

To the OP -- I'm sending you a PM so please check your mailbox

 

yes, a few is understandable, but tons of them even after several wormings................so many that you know they migrated to other areas...........there is only so much room in the intestines.......

anyway, don't want to hog the OP's thread, just putting my two cents worth in about issues pertaining to.....