There is a 2 way manipulation. It manipulates you and you manipulate it. But if you realize the situation it cannot manipulate you at all.

I know a dog is a predator and will take advantage where it can to improve it's situation. It will try to manipulate people as people are so easy to manipulate and the dog knows this.

I don't feel taken advantage by allowing pup in bed with me. I don't believe in crates. My dogs are my security guards free to roam. When pups they stay with me, end of my story. lol

 

Ok I now understand.....you don't believe in crates/crating. Fully explains why you recommend people have puppies in bed with them.

 

People rely on crates. When I hear of dog at 2 not allowed out cause he'll destroy the place then I wonder wouldn't it have been better to deal with the pup destroying things and then the dog would be fine.

I'm not against crates, just don't think they will aid my situation.

Lots of good info on crate training out there. If you have small apartment or big luxurious house then maybe it's for you. I've a 4 bed with acre in the country. No neighbors for half mile. Need dogs to be alert and on guard.

But at the end of the day I love a to snuggle up with gf and pups in bed.

Is that so mad :crazy:

 

I'm not against crates, just don't think they will aid my situation.


But at the end of the day I love a to snuggle up with gf and pups in bed.

Is that so mad :crazy:

See, and this is why information given on an Internet forum is sometimes confusing.
You are telling someone to take the dog to bed, when they are trying to crate train. But you did not say that you are fundamentally opposed to crates, yourself.

This is not about cliques.
To me, what you're saying is equivalent to "I'll give you advice about what to do with babies, but I don't have kids, I just know a lot of adults."

I ask if you have raised a German Shepherd puppy not because I want to be snarky, but because until I did (and I raised several other breeds) I never encountered the issues and challenges that a GSD pup presents.

I can honestly say that I have had dogs, and then there was a German Shepherd. I can also say that until I raised one, I would not have been at all qualified to give advice about this particular breed. At the very least, had I come on here to give advice, I would have said upfront that I never raised a GSD puppy.

I say that because I remember some of your earlier posts, containing advice that I believed would not have worked with a GSD.

I know your opinion is different. This, however, is mine.

 

Wow. So much snarking in this thread. I'll just add my thoughts to the original post.

FIRST....FIND A GOOD TRAINER! There is no substitute for a hands on trainer.

We got our 8 week old GSD puppy 4 days ago and I can't not be out of his sight without him screaming the house down!

This is normal. He's in a new place and scared. Think of him as a toddler (he's about that mentality right now). Let him follow you. That will pay off later when you NEED his focus! Reward him for looking at you.

He sleeps in a crate next to our bed which we don't find and he sleeps through till around 6 am with minimal crying only to go out to the toilet. At 6am all he wants to do is play and won't settle again unless on the living room rug with me on the sofa. He is fine in his crate when we are there but as soon as I even go to the toilet or anything then he howls! He is constantly attached to my hip when we're home and I can't do ANYTHING without him being under my feet.

I can see the frustration and problem. You have to be able to get things done! There is a dvd called Crate Games. I highly recommend it. It teaches the dogs to relax in their crates. I would suggest when you put him in the crate to go do something (like pee! or vacuum! or clean the house!) give him a chew bone to keep him busy. Feed him in the crate. All good things happen in the crate!


We both work full time so he is left in the day but I've had many dogs before and all of them have been fine. Except this one... He is shut in the hall and kitchen area with all his toys and bed but when we leave he howls SO loudly! For hours!! I went to apologise to the neighbours last night and they said it's fine don't worry about it but I can only imagine how frustrating it is for them as it is for us. Even if I need to go to the shop etc he will cry for hours and it's very loud and distressing that I never want to leave the house!

I think the Crate Games will help with this. And giving him a chew bone that will keep him busy.


He also doesn't seem to listen when I tell him no. He chews everything and jumps up and bites your face. I tell him NO but hr doesn't listen.

He's a baby. You are expecting to much from him. Is this your first GSD? They are a handful! Get a trainer! There are lots of threads on puppies biting and how to redirect. Get a toy, redirect, engage and play with him. And when you need a break, put him in the crate with a chew bone. It takes time. But it will get better.

 

I just slept next to the crate. That's because Bella would cry all night and my mother in law couldn't get any sleep. When we moved into my house I let her sleep in the garage. She kind of cried because I wasn't next to her so I slept on the couch that lead to the garage so she could see me. Eventually I started drifting away and now she's fine; she has no issues at all.

 

Sometimes people who need help with their young GSD's are posting here for the first time. Some give very little information and do not respond to suggestions made or even acknowledge that they have considered any of them. Certainly - questions would arise if they were thinking and not just venting.

Giving little information, not stating any preferred training methods etc leads to some very abrupt answers being given. What else can people do? I do not like to respond to these types of posts because of lack of information and participation by the person asking for help, they tend to degrade into some assumptions being run with in the wrong direction and training methods being argued over.

To me, posting for help here and then not participating in the discussion in any way or asking questions reflects the lack of willingness and training abilities of the poster. There have been a few of these lately. That may be why some are still thinking rehome the dog. Better responses to the request for help would bring better specific answers to that request.....

 

To me, posting for help here and then not participating in the discussion in any way or asking questions reflects the lack of willingness and training abilities of the poster. That may be why some are still thinking rehome the dog...

Yes, and it is also the attitude of the poster.
We can only go by what they are saying, and how they are saying it. And knowing what it takes, if they are of a certain mindset and what they are doing is so far from what needs to be done, then, yes, rehoming is suggested.

It takes three years to get a decent GSD. If someone is so frustrated within the first few days, how are they going to last that long?

 

2 to 3 years to full mental maturity. Yes. I'm not disputing that.

But lets look at the terminology being used here. "decent" "three years to get a decent GSD"

How intimidating is that to a new person? Decent to me isn't fully matured and near perfect. I'm sure it isn't to most people. Decent is mannerly and fun to live with.

What is the criteria for "decent"? There are a whole lot of 18-24 mth old dogs earning BH's. I would say that implies they have fairly decent impulse control on a long down. Dogs that age earning AKC titles. Dogs testing for therapy work (NOT service).

My male has always settled nicely in the house. That's just plain genetics. My dogs were "decent" at 9 months. Perfect? No. Fully matured? No, of course not. But they were most certainly mannerly and "decent". Our Boxers...what PIA's. They were crated for a very long time because they were not "decent". Hard headed and destructive.

I've seen a lot of dogs that are more than decent at 15 months. Mature? No. But "decent". It all depends on the individual dog and the training.

(and unfortunately, when people go back and edit their posts after someone replies and the pages roll over, we don't see the expanded comments! Sunflowers did answer my question on the last page! Ugh! Stop it!)

Decent must mean something different to you than myself. No one is trying to intimidate anyone. Realistic absolutely.

 

No one is trying to intimidate anyone. .

As Mrs P said, no one is trying to intimidate.

Nowhere did I say anyone was TRYING to intimidate anyone.

Apparently I do have a different idea of decent. And what is realistic. I'm going to go train a few things for my dog's BH while my eggs are baking. Maybe he'll be decent in a year.:wild:

 

Breed doesn't matter, it's individual dogs. Not all GSDs are the same. Robyn cried and threw a fit, then got over it--out of crate by 7 months. Midnite was older and he escaped numerous times-out of the crate after a month at about 11 months. Then there is Apollo, he really was never in the crate in the beginning, he went off in a corner and slept. When I did attempt to put him in the crate he went to the bathroom every time. He was out of the crate for good at 5 months, because it was less stressful for both of us. Brennan the golden destroyed anything in the crate. I prefer crate training but all dogs are different and require different things. Not all dogs love crates, not all dogs hate crates. People have to be open minded and they have to know their dog. My younger golden was by far worse then all three GSDs. He is still behind a gate because he is a very powerful chewer, he puts the GSDs to shame in that department.


So to the OP, work with your pup, think out of the box and do what you gotta do to get results--with or without a crate.

 

"I have to laugh at people advising the op to return the pup. "

Why?

As a breeder , I would rather have the dog back sooner rather than later.

The OP probably lives in close quarters, maybe an attached home or semi- with neighbours who are not delighted , having had to apologize to them. The OP does not have a partner who is fully on-board "It is causing major arguments with my partner " So you have to weigh the negative against the positive and see if it is wise to continue - for THIS pup , who may not at all be the right match or temperament for this person.

Partners, male or female , may not be forgiving if the dog chews up one shoe . Maybe that shoe is part of the go-to-work outfit , where presentation matters.

"I want to get rid of him already as he is too needy but I know j havnt given him a chance. Will he grow out of this neediness?"

Maybe , maybe not. We don't know the dog. We don't know how prepared you were , how careful the breeder was in selecting the pup for your needs (if at all) , how good and knowledgeable the breeder was in making this breeding and how good she/he was in raising them , pre-stressing them, giving them little tastes of being the one and only dog to give them a sense of individuality.

When I have a litter I take one away from his pals and treat him as if he was my one and only dog . The dog of the day. In the kitchen, in the yard, sitting in the car , with a visitor , with the house-cat learning some good lessons there. Then that dog is taken back to his litter and we repeat with another dog. Daily .

It makes a difference.

 

Hans was also "good" by 9 months.
But fully mature, obedient, affectionate, and most important, having great impulse control, yes, it took three years.
As for where I got the number, that is when they mature. A breeder friend of mine also told me this-- wait until he's three and it will have been worth it.

Maybe people with more experience can have that sooner. As a first timer, it took me a while, maybe he would've been better quicker had he not been my first GSD.

PS-- and we still have a little bit to work on with bothering the cat.

 

I've seen dogs at 18 months have that. How discouraging for new owners to see "3 years". That may be your experience but I don't believe it's a very good rule of thumb in general. It's all about the training and genetics. And that will vary for every dog.

 

As someone that was new here 6 months ago, it was very discouraging. I had a puppy I took off the hands of an irresponsible owner who had an accidental litter, my first GSD. Obviously knowing that this dog could be a disaster just from poor breeding, I came here for help and answers..

This poorly bred dog was crate trained in a week, house trained in 3. At 6 months old I could have him lay down and line his whole body with treats and he wouldn't move. The only time he is on a leash is the vet, obedience class he recently started, and when we go for walks. Got out of the car the other night and the neighbors cat took off, Bear took a step towards it, looked at me and I said no. He turned right around and walked with me in the house. I can put his food down and have a shower, he would still be sitting there when I got out waiting because I didn't say Ok. These are just a couple examples of how incredible he is (to me anyways, thats all that really matters), I'm very proud of him.

It is training and genetics, due to not knowing how his genetics would play out, I was VERY hard on him. I know there is a chance he could still show some behavioral issues, and I am always on high alert with him. He is going to be on a leash alot more in the coming months as the teenage ****storm is fast approaching, his training will be upped, and I may start drinking a little more but I am confident he will be a "good dog" long before 3.

 

"I have to laugh at people advising the op to return the pup. "

Why?

As a breeder , I would rather have the dog back sooner rather than later.

if you don't have the patience and have buyer's remorse it is much better to go back to the breeder who may have someone waiting for a pup, rather than , muddling through it with resentment and impatience and doing a bad job of it , off on the wrong foot , and having an assortment of other problems caused by this , which are not solvable and make for a poor candidate for re-homing.

(which may be inevitable because of your partner)

I totally agree with this post of yours, and your opinion is invaluable to the op.

It is when people continue to say it after the op says he decided to keep the pup that it becomes unhelpful to the op.

I wonder what satisfaction they get from telling others to return pup.

 

Maybe people's expectations are different also.
Everyone knows these dogs mature when they are three, at least Czech lines certainly do.

 

See now, I see deflection. I see some condensation with "everyone knows..." I see two others automatically pick and choose parts of what I said just to argue.

But what I don't see is an answer to what I asked.

 

my dog is 10-I really miss her puppy crazy antics-sometimes there are glimpses and I love it

 

I hear ya!!!!

 

How intimidating is that to a new person?
Depends on the person.
I spent many hours reading here, because I wanted to know what I was in for.
I was looking for honesty, and not sugar coated reassurances. What good would it have been to go in expecting one thing and finding myself in quite another situation, overwhelmed and ready to get rid of my puppy?

As Mrs P said, no one is trying to intimidate.

 

:rofl: ahhh...I see it now. I should have put the names together sooner.

 

Ha! At the rate I'm going, I may end up with a 3 year old that is very indecent. Just another splendid example of misinterpretation on intent and words used to describe things I think. I see what you are saying and it seems it's all a matter of degrees.

 

Sue had an eloquent post that states how I am sure many pups see it.

Now to the subsequent "3 year" debate - depends on the dog.
Barker the Elder the 2nd - came out of the box with focus. Walked on a leash at the first time at PDX. You'd have thought she was born walking on a leash. Took maybe two illustrations for her to get "ring the bell to go out". Toilet trained very easily. (In a two story house at that). Would modify my clothing as I drove with her in the cab beside me, could sneak a good shoe off the bed with me inches from the shoe. Was a snap at obedience training.
Barker the Younger the 2nd. Had been crate trained before I picked her up. Was used to being left alone. Got her home, you'd never know it. Wailed like she was being tortured if the other dog and I left the house. She was a year old before she was toilet trained. At about 2 she suddenly got obedience training. Like overnight. I could use any collar and she was a champ.

I've had other dogs that "got it" right away; others that waited until they were 2. Depends on the dog. (Handler was the same BTW.)


Predicting "when" is beyond me!

 

I think every GSD owner who starts with their first Dog has a moment when they have doubts. There was a point where I cried [I never cry] from frustration.

For the Howling what I would suggest is leave your house for 5 seconds walk back in give him a treat if he didn't howl. Do it over and over and over and over again by increasing the duration you leave and when you enter avoid the dog don't make a big deal of your return.

It might help.

 

I think every GSD owner who starts with their first Dog has a moment when they have doubts. There was a point where I cried [I never cry] from frustration.

so true, i got extremely overwhelmed the first 2 nights and was in tears thinking i made a huge mistake getting a puppy, as i slept next to the crate so Roya would stop whining. it's definitely a culture shock getting any puppy, that i was not entirely prepared for, despite the extensive research and educating i did. i think that's where people fail the most. they have this life they're accustomed to, and struggle to let it go or put it on hiatus, and that realization freaks people out. it certainly did with me. but i persevered. i told myself "this is what i wanted", picked myself up and tried to raise the best **** dog i could.

i also had a pretty good support system at my parents house, that i could drop her off at so i could go to work on weekends

 

My my... I leave you guys for a day and miss PAGES of back and forth

Well Apexk9, I am with you... I remember a NUMBER of times when Titan was a pup.. gosh probably until he was about 1-2 years even that I cried in frustration with him at times. Frequently? No.. but every now and then when I was exhausted from a 16 hr shift and needed sleep but he needed attention.. oh yeah.

Funny to point out that I do not think the OP has returned. Hope they are at least lurking and taking some small things from this thread

 

I've been reading this for days, not getting involved in the discussion of original topic. But I am curious as to whether anyone else is wondering or thinking what I have been thinking....

So a new member comes on here and posts a major hot topic that is definitely going to get a lot of attention and heated debates, blood pressures risen, etc. But the first thing in this new members post states "Not looking for judgment or criticism". Is this really even a new member? Is this someone just coming on here to stir up emotions or possibly someone who's been banned coming in under a new identity to stir the pot? Just seems coincidental to me that they would post such a hot topic right off the bat knowing they are going to get negative replies and then disappear.

 

It could easily have been someone lurking for awhile.

I've seen a few threads started by active members and they've throw down the gauntlet from the first sentence! "No haters" as it were!

I thought it was kinda cool myself! So you never know??

 

Sometimes you have to step back and realize that it is awesome to finally have a GSD puppy.
It helped a client of mine who found himself half eaten by his landshark.

 

I agree with others; think of your GSP as a human baby.

He/she has been with numerous brothers and sisters and their parents. It takes some time to get used to sleeping alone. We got our GSP, Izzy, when she was roughly 6.5 weeks old. It took her about 7-8 days to get used to falling asleep alone and staying asleep alone. Her crate is in our living room, not our bedroom. I would suggest getting your puppy a buddy (a stuffed animal) and put on it a shirt you've worn so it will get the scent. Take the shirt off and give to the puppy. We also use an essential oil spray. I mix approx two ounces of water with about 10 drops of lavender essential oil. I spray that on her crate cover as I put her in there to go to bed for the night. The same spray can be used when the puppy gets irritated or feels stressed. I make sure to leave Izzy alone throughout the day....folding laundry, making breakfast, showering, etc. I give her a treat when she is good while I'm away, which is every time now!! Also, I'd suggest mentally stimulating the puppy with tricks. We started training Izzy a few days after we got her. She knows sit, down, shake, up, quiet, and to ring a bell when she has to potty.

 

you are tired. I remember that time. It's not easy but it's worth it.
I would sleep on the couch and the dog in his cage. so I was close to the outdoors for pee breaks.
Look on the bright side. It's a good thing that he follows you everywhere, this way he isn't making a mess or getting himself in trouble.
These dogs are velcro dogs. They want to be with you. Throw treats in his crate and leave the door open. So he slowly learns that it's a fun place to be in.

Good luck!