I was speaking with the director of our local Humane Society last month. She asked me what type of dog I had. When I told her GSD, she paused - then said GSD's & Labs are the hardest dogs to train.

I immediately said "Yes, but the training pays off 10 fold". What I should have said to her is - "They wouldn't be harder to train if they didn't have so much capacity to learn......"

 

Op, your dog has separation anxiety. Mine had exactly the same behaviour at the same age. It's easily dealt with via training. Google "separation anxiety" and learn how to deal with it.

 

interesting remark Stone, as I own GSD and work with Labs.... i find both breeds to be the easiest to train by far. if I remember correctly that lady had some other odd opinions too. anyway, if they're the hardest then I'm a better trainer than I thought, ha!

 

I agree with you too, oddly I have had labs too and both very easy to train once that reward is found

I think, if I may guess, what is meant by the common "hard to train" comment is just that it is a constant evolving process for the rest of their lives. You are always going to be challenging them, mentally. While a lot of breeds you can get away with a quick OB session as pups, they learn and then no more is done, GSDs (and labs) should always be training, IMO. That causes people to misuse the word "hard" so it's not that they are "hard" just that it takes more effort to keep them occupied than many others.

 

Ok so I am not annoyed and don't want to get rid of him but actually I am very reluctant to get rehome him the only reason I want to is for his benefit not mine.
He has been to the vets and only had his first jab so it isn't possible to take him for walks at present but we do exercise him in the garden and okay with him.
He does understand no and we have thought him sit already. We are training him everyday and he is doing well.
The only problem is the separation anxiety and that is what is driving me mad.
Mainly because j have bad anxiety anyway and I'm constantly thinking about my neighbours and concerned my puppy is upset.
The vet said I am being silly and I have to remember he is a dog and he needs to learn he is bottom of the pack.
I am so confused cause I have been given/read so much conflicting advice.
My vet says start as you mean to go on and she has always had gsds and crate him down stairs at night and ignore the cries and he will eventually learn that crying doesn't work. Which is almost an impossible task because he is so loud and does it for hours and hours on end and I feel awful for him I just want to go down there and comfort him which I know would be letting him 'win' so he knows he can cry and I will come running.
Other day sleep on the sofa with him a couple weeks or have him crated in your bedroom for a couple weeks but j can't see then how he will be ok with going downstairs or me going upstairs?
Also he isn't crated in the day we just don't let him in our living room because he chews things in there.
We have recorded him while we have been out and he howls for hours and I mean hours.
I havnt been to work since I got him which has been 5 days now but my partner has and when I go back I will come home at lunch and fuss him and let him out and feed him. But I need to go to the shops or to my mums and he howls and cries the whole time! What I'm asking is will he eventually learn that it's ok and crying won't bring me back but I will come back?
I had obviously researched gsd puppies before we got one and we know quite a few people with them but had no idea it would be this extreme and intense. How do you know until it happens to you??
My partner is extremely active and when we can go for walks he will be taken everywhere he can with us.
But for now he can't go for walks etc. he won't even touch a kong and isn't very motivated but toys and treats at the moment.

 

st

Ok so I am not annoyed and don't want to get rid of him but actually I am very reluctant to get rehome him the only reason I want to is for his benefit not mine.

You just mentioned the best reason for anyone to rehome a dog.

 

It depends on the dog. You may have gotten a nervy, insecure one. Mine never cried or howled once. He is still a quiet dog.

 

Also, dogs are emotional mirrors. If you have anxiety, he will pick up on it and be just as anxious. I am still of the opinion that this is not the dog for you.

 

"My vet says start as you mean to go on and she has always had gsds and crate him down stairs at night and ignore the cries and he will eventually learn that crying doesn't work. Which is almost an impossible task because he is so loud and does it for hours and hours on end and I feel awful for him I just want to go down there and comfort him which I know would be letting him 'win' so he knows he can cry and I will come running"

an unproductive behaviour gets extinquished

as sunflowers said , you may have gotten an insecure , nervy dog. Then the best thing to do is not to feed into that insecurity .

Put him into his crate , put the radio on - talk radio stations are good because they become a background pattern of noise -- shut the lights and go about your business with some ambient noise so that your ears aren't keyed into listening to the pup.

Before you put the dog into the crate make sure that he has had a chance to relieve himself so that there are no urgent internal pressures . Put a small treat into the crate -- easy to make , dried chicken hearts , if kibble fed a few bits of kibble . If the dog is really stressed you could give him a squirt of Bach flower remedies , Rescue.

Do this and wait for the dog to be quiet for 10 minutes and then go and bring him back into the action. When you get him don't get excited . Bring him out in a dry matter of fact way . Engage in some activity , minor bits of training . This is where you get all happy and excited with praise . Then back to routine. After a while give dog opportunity to relieve himself . Back into the crate he goes . This time a longer period where he has to be quiet before he is integrated into the action again.

You keep doing this . Short and several periods of going in and coming out. The dog then understands that he isn't forgotten.

 

Fox33--How big is the crate? My 9 week old puppy did not like a smaller crate. I ended up getting a full-size crate for an adult GSD and he did fine. He gradually got bigger so he doesn't mind the closed-in feeling now as an adult.

Just checking, as a bigger crate made a huge difference. I had 2 full-size crates (well actually 3--one for my vehicle). One in my bedroom and one in the living room. That way he could sleep in the bedroom and the one in the living room so he could be where the "action" is but easily contained if I could not be vigilant about watching him.

Never open the crate door while the pup is actually fussing. Turn your back to the crate, when pup is quiet, then open the crate.

Take care!

 

I like the crate by my bed, especially with a pup. Ironically Barker the Younger 2nd was crate trained before I brought her home. She loves going in her crate (crate games) but she would wail and carry on when I first left her there. She will also still, at 2 yo, fuss loudly when BTE & I go out the door to train. Some are like that.

 

Sigh ....if the "puppy" is whining and crying in the crate for hours???

Go with the Pro's:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/584842-separation-anxiety-shut-up-dog.html

You can cover the crate with a blanket, feed the puppy "only" in the crate, give "carmspack's" advise a try ...if all of that fails ...then it's time to get real!

"Correct" the puppy "in the crate" for unwanted behavior!
You "can" correct a dog for unwanted behavior in the crate!

 

German Shepherd puppies can be very frustrating. Mine had an all out whining fit for an hour or more in his crate every night for a month. As he got older he would do anything to spill my coffee every morning. He would steak sticks of butter off the counter, counter surf and go threw the trash cans. He tore the carpet up in three places and chewed the corner of a wall. Not to mention the many pair of ripped pants I had from him being a land shark.

They take a lot of patience, discipline and work. I did not trust my dog out of his crate until he was 7 to 8 months old. He was never unsupervised in the house, At times he was leashed to me so i could get things done around the house.

He eventually calmed down and realized what the rules are. He is two now and a wonderful dog. I never thought of giving up on him though. I knew he would get trained and grow up one day. I proved to be more stubborn than the dog.

He loves his crate now.

 

With my girl(mini mastiff) as a pup, I just gave in to the whining and let her sleep with me. I wouldn't put a pup away in another part of the house. You can wean the pup off after a few weeks/months and teach it to sleep on the floor and then in another room. Now my dogs sleep on my couches full time in the sitting room. I don't use crates or separate dogs unless dogs don't know each other who are staying with me or someone is in heat.

I didn't really care too much if the pup chewed up things. She got some shoes alright. I reckon it better to leave good shoes out of sight. Thats what pups do. They sometimes ignore the toys and aim for the things with your scent on them or a texture they like.

Sometimes unconventional methods work. You allow the pup with you all the time and wean it off in the future. Put it in a ruck sack and carry it around. Experimentation can work many times. There is no set way to bring up pups and people generally use a technique that works for them.

The highly recommended methods probably work with most pups but not all are pups are the same.

The most important thing to do it not to coddle the pup, or make a fuzz. When you do meet it after been out ignore it for a few minutes, go about normal business. No touch, talk or eye contact for 5 mins is a pretty easy method. Then pup/dog does then not associate your greeting with excitement.

Been aloof with it also sends the message your temperament can't be affected by its behavior. Picking up pups is good not to hold them like babies. It's mother picks it up by the neck. You can do like-wise and support under belly with other hand.

Carmpacks advice is spot on to if using the crate but in general as well. Loads more good advice is here on this thread and many more on the forum. Mine is to show you different options and the way I do things. Your imagination is a great tool sometimes in dealing with issues and training a dog. Don't have to go with a vets idea or whatever. They might not even have a dog.

 

With my girl(mini mastiff) as a pup, I just gave in to the whining and let her sleep with me. I wouldn't put a pup away in another part of the house. You can wean the pup off after a few weeks/months and teach it to sleep on the floor and then in another room. Now my dogs sleep on my couches full time in the sitting room. I don't use crates or separate dogs unless dogs don't know each other who are staying with me or someone is in heat.

Now this is "funny??" All my Bullys slept with me also! And the furniture thing too!

But "liberties" such as those, led "me" to "issues" with my GSD, I suspect???

My GSD is why I started to ask myself ... "Well what do the Pro's do??"

Small world indeed!

 

I dont think your ready for this breed. Take the puppy back to the breeder before its a 2yr old untrained dog sitting in a shelter looking for a home.

 

Yes, please do.

 

To the original poster -

Please do keep in touch with us if you decide to keep the dog - we are all here to help. There are amazing owners here who can give you a tonne of great advice.

 

Some of these stories make me laugh. You just have to have patience. Apollo has been the most mischievious, but in a cute way. He insists that blankets and pillows don't belong on the couch--everyday. I put pieces of furniture on the one couch so he can't remove that one. He has figured out how to take apart the carpet tiles--He moved the couch on Friday to get one. So now I move the furniture before I leave so he can't move anything. I have an empty expen on the other area rug. I put an old vacuum I was throwing out on the other carpet--he chewed that wire. I now have heavy duty tape for them. I laugh when I walk into my house, everything is boobie trapped. He is definitely going through a phase and hopefully my carpet and blankets make it through

 

I am a baby.

All I knew is my momma and litter mates, and the lady with the food.

I was with my momma and littermates all the time. They were awesome companions, we played and played and then collapsed in a pile to sleep. We ate together and got drinks from momma. When something happened we were all together, and momma was there, like when we went to the big scary white place, and they had this bee that got me, but I didn't even flinch -- they said so.

And, sometimes momma barked and sometimes she got all excited. But with momma there, we weren't scared. We got excited because the lady with the food brought food and toys and stuff. The food came and everyone gathered around. There were toys and tails to chase and always a brother to wrestle with which is the funnest thing in the whole world.

Then one day other people came. They looked at us and picked me. They took me away from the play yard, and my nice warm sleeping place, where I piled up with my brothers and sisters. Momma was barking and my brothers were making noise, but I wasn't too scared because the lady with the food was walking with us. The new people got into the car with me. I wasn't too sure about this. I wimpered. But they were holding me, and it seemed ok. We were going for a ride in the car.

I don't know if I threw up on the way home. I don't remember much about it. I was worried about where my brothers and sisters were. I never went anywhere without them. It was a long ride. I think maybe I fell asleep.

But then, I came into this new place. I looked for my momma. I couldn't see her or hear her or even smell her. I was frightened. My brothers weren't here either. It was just me, and everything smells so funny. Everything sounds so strange. I wasn't hungry. The food seemed the same, I think. But, I dunno. It's different.

They put me in this box. It was small, and I felt safe in there, but I couldn't get out. And momma was gone. And my brothers and sisters are gone, and I am all alone. I have never been alone before. It's scary. It's lonely. Where is my mamma!!! Where is the lady with the food? Ok, you, new lady, I want to be with you so I am not all by myself.
Maybe if you are here, it is ok. It will be ok. Don't Go Away!!!

Every day, I forget a little about how it used to be. I do other stuff with the people that have me. I figured out stairs today. That was pretty cool. And when that scary thing in the room they called the bathroom made that noise, I thought it was going to bite the lady, but she seemed to be ok with it. I wasn't too sure. Maybe she has power. Maybe she can protect me from the scary thing.

And they put this rope thing on me, and tried to take me out. At first I thought I was going home. But we walked and walked. I was tired. But I kept walking. Finally, I sat down and wouldn't walk any more. She picked me up and carried me the rest of the way back to their house.

And I can't just pee anywhere. They scooped me up and took me outside. I think they want me to pee outside. Not sure, but I think so. It's strange. I never really thought much about peeing before.

Night is the worst. They shut all the doors and stuff, and I can't hear anything. I want to tell them to move this box thing to the bedroom so I can hear them sleeping. Then at least I wouldn't feel all alone. I cry because I am alone, and I miss sleeping with the others. I don't think I'm supposed to be all alone. I am trying to tell her that.

 

I am a baby.

All I knew is my momma and litter mates, and the lady with the food.

I was with my momma and littermates all the time. They were awesome companions, we played and played and then collapsed in a pile to sleep. We ate together and got drinks from momma. When something happened we were all together, and momma was there, like when we went to the big scary white place, and they had this bee that got me, but I didn't even flinch -- they said so.

And, sometimes momma barked and sometimes she got all excited. But with momma there, we weren't scared. We got excited because the lady with the food brought food and toys and stuff. The food came and everyone gathered around. There were toys and tails to chase and always a brother to wrestle with which is the funnest thing in the whole world.

Then one day other people came. They looked at us and picked me. They took me away from the play yard, and my nice warm sleeping place, where I piled up with my brothers and sisters. Momma was barking and my brothers were making noise, but I wasn't too scared because the lady with the food was walking with us. The new people got into the car with me. I wasn't too sure about this. I wimpered. But they were holding me, and it seemed ok. We were going for a ride in the car.

I don't know if I threw up on the way home. I don't remember much about it. I was worried about where my brothers and sisters were. I never went anywhere without them. It was a long ride. I think maybe I fell asleep.

But then, I came into this new place. I looked for my momma. I couldn't see her or hear her or even smell her. I was frightened. My brothers weren't here either. It was just me, and everything smells so funny. Everything sounds so strange. I wasn't hungry. The food seemed the same, I think. But, I dunno. It's different.

They put me in this box. It was small, and I felt safe in there, but I couldn't get out. And momma was gone. And my brothers and sisters are gone, and I am all alone. I have never been alone before. It's scary. It's lonely. Where is my mamma!!! Where is the lady with the food? Ok, you, new lady, I want to be with you so I am not all by myself.
Maybe if you are here, it is ok. It will be ok. Don't Go Away!!!


Beautifully done, Selzer! I also had a blanket that the dam and litter had put their scent on for the first few nights to help with the transition. My pup was never left more than 4 hours w/o me until he was 6 months old. When I came home at lunchtime I had exactly 7 minutes to potty him. Fortunately, he was very efficient and had no separation anxiety.

 

This is a handout I wrote for new puppy owners and how I have raised my last four pups with success.

Prepare for these first few nights as follows. Put a sleeping bag on the floor next to your side of the bed with a soft towel for the puppy to sleep on and to make him associate it with peaceful quiet time. Assure your partner or spouse that this is only for two nights and a guarantee for a good night’s rest for everyone. Have a container with tiny treats ready. Save this particular treat only for bed time to establish a routine so he will understand what’s expected from him. This will come in handy when he has to sleep somewhere else like when you are traveling with him later on.
Don’t take him into your own bed to prevent a routine you don’t want. Instead take him with you in the sleeping bag on the floor. He shouldn’t have a problem sleeping after a long and tiring first day away from his former home. Take him outside to relieve himself just before you go to bed. Don’t leave him alone when you are getting ready for bed. Keep him with you on leash, even when you go to the bathroom Then the big moment comes when you are sharing your sleeping bag with your brand new puppy. Give him his small treat. Turn off the lights to make him associate the dark with sleeping. Most likely it won’t take long before he falls asleep, safely and warm next to you. Enjoy him and realize what a privilege it is to have this beautiful creature starting his new life with you.
You will wake up when he gets restless. Wait a few moments to see if he goes back to sleep or really has to go outside. You don’t want to rush outside as soon as he moves around. If he continues being restless, leash him and carry him outside to the designated area, no matter the weather. If you are not able to sleep, just enjoy the company of your new little friend. Hold him, pet him and just love him and be happy. This is great bonding for you and your puppy and a great foundation for a life with your new dog. Do not wash the puppy towel, unless it’s been soiled; you need to preserve the scent for the third night.
These first few nights will become precious memories when your puppy has grown into an adult dog.
So, now you probably wonder if you can ever return to your own bed without your puppy. The answer is, “Yes”. After the second night of camping out in your bedroom, it’s time to move to the next level; you back in your own bed and your puppy next to you on the floor in a box.
Arrange a large box that can’t tip over if your puppy leans against the inside walls and put it next to your bed. Wear an old T-shirt during the day which you give to your puppy at night. It will have your scent on it which is now familiar and comforting to him. Give him his towel as well, which will remind him of positive night time. Give him his (small) night treat as soon as you put him into the box. Of course he will try to reach you. Gently lower your hand into the box so he knows you are there. Then hope for the best and try to get some sleep. If you hear him getting restless after a few hours, wait to make sure he really needs to go out.
Young puppies of about seven and a half weeks of age need to go out at least once a night. If you take him out as soon as he is making some sounds, he will learn how to get your attention and will get you up as often as he pleases. Wait until he is quiet before you take him out of his box.
Puppies over ten weeks of age are usually able to sleep through the night (11.00 PM – 6.00 AM next morning) unless there is a physical problem.
If you give him his last feeding at 5 PM and remove his water at 6 PM, you will help him to stay clean and dry for the night. Keeping him calm about an hour before bed time, makes it easier to settle down in his box. Take him out for his last trip just before you go to bed and take him out the first thing in the morning before you allow him on the floor.
At the age of about eleven weeks, he should be well settled in his new home. His bed in his crate during the day will now be familiar to him. By this time he should be crate trained and able to sleep in a closed crate. Now you can put the crate next to your bed. The same night treat will remind him of the routine that it’s bedtime now and that all activity has stopped for the day.
When he is about sixteen weeks old he can sleep in his crate in the living room; he is more independent from you now. But he won’t mind sharing your bedroom every night; it’s good bonding time, especially if he has to spend some time alone during the day.

 

I have to laugh at people advising the op to return the pup.

It was suggested, they decided to keep it and people still want to advise to give it up. It begins to feel more malicious if it's repeated over and over. It just turns into negativity, as in if you don't have something positive to say, don't say anything. Or say your piece and be done.

Was every one a super puppy raiser and dog trainer naturally or did people actually learn how to do it over time and through experience??

Did people who post that, not make mistakes and feel defeated at times? Did they need encouragement at times or support? I wonder. I know people have difficulties with pups.

I believe it is easy and any one can do it, but at the time with no experience it can seem like a real struggle.

Any ways carry on. I appreciate real advice and I'm sure the op will too.

There has been good advice given.

 

Do you own a GSD yet?

 

I own cross bred mutts, I have worked with gsd 's and used to mind them at a dog kennel I was helping out at. Have trained as well with a Gsd club. Have 15 years owning and dog sitting/walking many breeds.

But if you think I'm not qualified to comment on posts then thats your opinion and your entitled to it but it won't stop me.

I'll let you know when I get more dogs don't worry. At the moment I can only manage what I have and am not gonna get a dog to appease others or allow me fit in with a click.

 

But if you think I'm not qualified to comment on posts then thats your opinion and your entitled to it but it won't stop me.
.

And yet you get on others' case for what they post.

 

Isn't that the way of the thread

People post, people comment, people comment on comments

Maybe I missed something but I think that is totally ok and well within board rules

 

Carry on, then...

 

Originally Posted by MadLab
With my girl(mini mastiff) as a pup, I just gave in to the whining and let her sleep with me. I wouldn't put a pup away in another part of the house. Now my dogs sleep on my couches full time in the sitting room.

The most important thing to do it not to coddle the pup, or make a fuzz.


Saphire...This confuses me.

To me letting the pup in the bed and spending time with it doesn't equate to making a fuzz or coddling it. There is a difference between coddling and cuddling.

People need to be aloof with a pup imo. It doesn't mean to not care or not be concerned but you internalize these feelings and only project confidence and assertiveness to your dog/pup.

Putting into a crate and away from you can be traumatic for a pup. Why should it cry all night when it can be in bed with you. Once it gets comfortable with the new pack and being away from mother and litter mates, then you can teach it to be secure in it's own skin.

 

When a puppy whines/cries and the reaction is to bring that puppy into your bed so THEY are comfortable, imo that is most definitely coddling.
Why is it so wrong to teach a puppy they are ok in their crate? Why encourage bedtime snuggling only to "wean" them from it later. For those dogs prone to SA, you have now encouraged that behaviour.
It's like teaching a puppy to do their business on newspapers, then spend months moving the papers outside.

This is a puppy, not a person.

 

Why is it so wrong to teach a puppy they are ok in their crate?

It is not wrong at all. Some info on how to do it correctly in this thread.

I can only give my opinion and experience and another perspective. None of my dogs have any SA. I don't use crates or separation unless issues need serious correction or a dog is in heat. I will use social isolation in extreme cases.

I brought up terrier pups and did separate them as they had fleas etc. Thats common sense to me. In the long run I don't think you can damage a pup by crating up and separating. The natural temperament will shine through any ways.

If someone is overly stressed trying it one way then why bother with that battle and take it easy and enjoy the fur baby in bed. You exactly know when the pup wakes and wants to go potty. So you begin to understand there rhythm and don't get a pup/dog peeing in the crate.

So many variables in bringing up a pup, there are so many ways to do it and not have issues with it. If one way isn't working try another.

When a puppy whines/cries and the reaction is to bring that puppy into your bed so THEY are comfortable, imo that is most definitely coddling.

I would take a good nights stress free sleep over many other things in life. It is important for people bringing up pups not to find it stressful imo. Let it sleep with you for a month, then on a blanket on the floor for whatever time you like and then in another room when it is older. To me that is a simple progression and not coddling at all.

I prefer to support the weak rather than ignore it. SO if a pup cries I attend to it. I'll make it feel secure and leave with it comfortable and so not have issues with SA. I've commented on SA before and think I have a good handle on that aspect of training.

 

It is not wrong at all. Some info on how to do it correctly in this thread.

I can only give my opinion and experience and another perspective. None of my dogs have any SA. I don't use crates or separation unless issues need serious correction or a dog is in heat. I will use social isolation in extreme cases.

I brought up terrier pups and did separate them as they had fleas etc. Thats common sense to me. In the long run I don't think you can damage a pup by crating up and separating. The natural temperament will shine through any ways.

If someone is overly stressed trying it one way then why bother with that battle and take it easy and enjoy the fur baby in bed. You exactly know when the pup wakes and wants to go potty. So you begin to understand there rhythm and don't get a pup/dog peeing in the crate.

So many variables in bringing up a pup, there are so many ways to do it and not have issues with it. If one way isn't working try another.

I would take a good nights stress free sleep over many other things in life. It is important for people bringing up pups not to find it stressful imo. Let it sleep with you for a month, then on a blanket on the floor for whatever time you like and then in another room when it is older. To me that is a simple progression and not coddling at all.

I prefer to support the weak rather than ignore it. SO if a pup cries I attend to it. I'll make it feel secure and leave with it comfortable and so not have issues with SA. I've commented on SA before and think I have a good handle on that aspect of training.

Like it or not, you coddle your puppies and if it works for you .... perfect.

 

I'm actually pretty rough with dogs and have a tough justice but I will always nurture the weak. Thats my genetic code if you will. His opinion is his, hers is hers and yours is yours, it actually doesn't mean jack. Definitions and words is how we try to communicate. Dogs work with energy and body language.

 

A puppy whining/crying in a crate does not equate to a weak puppy.
I'm not at all talking about being physically rough.

In the words of my old trainer whom I worked with for many many years, "If you always remember that dogs do what is best for dogs, you WILL be successful in your training"