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I agree, and for me normal puppy behavior does not include a 4 month old puppy lunging, and barking with hackles up at a group of kids quietly waiting for a school bus early in the morning.
Agreed. I don't think people can say if behavior is normal or not if they haven't seen it for themselves.
 
Discussion starter · #42 ·
Agreed. I don't think people can say if behavior is normal or not if they haven't seen it for themselves.
Plus especially not normal for a puppy who has had so many positive experiences with children, horses, ferry boat rides, going to the ocean, shopping and I can go on and on.
 
Aria is german showlines.
I am in the Pacific Northwest but would travel for the right puppy.
Ah, you're in my neck of the woods(ish). Sounds like you made a good judgement call based off of your lifestyle and for the sake of the pup as well. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Is the breeder local to the PNW? (if so, would you mind pm'ing me the name? this is more out of curiosity than anything else)
 
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Discussion starter · #44 ·
Aria is german showlines.
I am in the Pacific Northwest but would travel for the right puppy.
Ah, you're in my neck of the woods(ish). Sounds like you made a good judgement call based off of your lifestyle and for the sake of the pup as well. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Is the breeder local to the PNW? (if so, would you mind pm'ing me the name? this is more out of curiosity than anything else)
The breeder isn't in the PNW or even on the west coast.
 
As I have come to understand there are "breeders" that do produce "WL" puppies that can act as service/therapy dogs?? News to me but I have seen them?? OP "if" you want to try again ...
Actually, yes, there are WL dogs serving as SD. Sound nerves, clear head, drive, but not stupid drive. I placed one, actually an IPO titled dog too, in 2013.
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
As I have come to understand there are "breeders" that do produce "WL" puppies that can act as service/therapy dogs?? News to me but I have seen them?? OP "if" you want to try again ...
Actually, yes, there are WL dogs serving as SD. Sound nerves, clear head, drive, but not stupid drive. I placed one, actually an IPO titled dog too, in 2013.
Define stupid drive please.
 
When their desire to chase, bite, kill (small animals or chase game), react over rides their ability to listen and hear commands or to settle and live in a normal household. That is the best I can come up with. :)
 
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Actually, there has never been a time when I didn't have a gsd without a cat. My friends even called me "the dog lady". We never had any issues between our cats and our dogs and there were times when we had several dogs plus puppies all living in the house.
As for normal puppy behavior, without you having seen her there is no way you can say that. Normal perhaps if she were a malanois with high prey drive. I has her evaluated by 4 professional trainers who have trained for the police, military and schutzhund, plus by a gsd breeder with 45 years experience breeding and training. They all said the exact same thing, her drive was very high, two of them would have loved to have bought her because they knew that she had the potential for doing very well in schutzhund.
She isn't working line she is actually german showlines. Her sire has produced hundreds of puppies including some that are gentle as lambs.
This was a SL GSD, uh ... wow??? I know very little of SL's but have to say what you describe is not what I would have expected??? Aww ...well so much for my safe if pressed GSD recommendation. :)
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
Actually, there has never been a time when I didn't have a gsd without a cat. My friends even called me "the dog lady". We never had any issues between our cats and our dogs and there were times when we had several dogs plus puppies all living in the house.
As for normal puppy behavior, without you having seen her there is no way you can say that. Normal perhaps if she were a malanois with high prey drive. I has her evaluated by 4 professional trainers who have trained for the police, military and schutzhund, plus by a gsd breeder with 45 years experience breeding and training. They all said the exact same thing, her drive was very high, two of them would have loved to have bought her because they knew that she had the potential for doing very well in schutzhund.
She isn't working line she is actually german showlines. Her sire has produced hundreds of puppies including some that are gentle as lambs.
This was a SL GSD, uh ... wow??? I know very little of SL's but have to say what you describe is not what I would have expected??? Aww ...well so much for my safe if pressed GSD recommendation.
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It's all good. Here is the thing, if you look at a family with several children you will find that each one is different, I have 4 and they all have different levels of energy and interests. It's the same in a litter of pups, you can have different levels of drive there too.
 
Just want to say that I'm sorry it didn't work out for you and this pup. I know it was a hard decision for you to make, but it sounds like the best decision for both the pup and your family.

Best of luck in your search for the 'right' pup. Looking forward to the day you have new pictures to post.
 
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When their desire to chase, bite, kill (small animals or chase game), react over rides their ability to listen and hear commands or to settle and live in a normal household. That is the best I can come up with. :)
You know ... I don't disagree! I'd use the term over the top drives???

I saw it with the "Pit" I rescued fresh off the street! No people issues, no dog issues but "Cat's???" Yeah ... we have a problem here??? That dog ... pretty much put my Cat v Dogs, "theories" to the test! That slight tug sideways thing ... I often "advocate" yesss ... a waste of time here! No crate at hand and "paws on the ground" it was time to "Keep it real!" So yeah ... "hang the dog it was!" It took "twice" but the message got threw the dog "now" laid down when the cats approached and "No Chasing!!"

Worked out fine ... I was actually "disappointed" that I had to resort to that?? But "hard consequences" for poor choices ... "worked out fine!" :)

So yeah for me ... this pup sounds pretty "normal" for a dog?? But yeah "I'm" flexible in my approach ... whatever it takes! But for a SL/GSD ... the behaviour as described ... yeah I don't know much about SL's but it does sound pretty much "unexpected???"

Aww well so much for my "relatively" safe GSD recommendations. :(
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
You know ... I don't disagree! I'd use the term over the top drives???

I saw it with the "Pit" I rescued fresh off the street! No people issues, no dog issues but "Cat's???" Yeah ... we have a problem here??? That dog ... pretty much put my Cat v Dogs, "theories" to the test! That slight tug sideways thing ... I often "advocate" yesss ... a waste of time here! No crate at hand and "paws on the ground" it was time to "Keep it real!" So yeah ... "hang the dog it was!" It took "twice" but the message got threw the dog "now" laid down when the cats approached and "No Chasing!!"

Worked out fine ... I was actually "disappointed" that I had to resort to that?? But "hard consequences" for poor choices ... "worked out fine!" :)

So yeah for me ... this pup sounds pretty "normal" for a dog?? But yeah "I'm" flexible in my approach ... whatever it takes! But for a SL/GSD ... the behaviour as described ... yeah I don't know much about SL's but it does sound pretty much "unexpected???"

Aww well so much for my "relatively" safe GSD recommendations. :(
Having had pups and cats together before I need to say that her behavior was over the top in comparison to the gsd pups I had in the past. She didn't just give chase, but rather shut off her hearing and switched into a frantic sliding all over the floor maniac.
 
Having had pups and cats together before I need to say that her behavior was over the top in comparison to the gsd pups I had in the past. She didn't just give chase, but rather shut off her hearing and switched into a frantic sliding all over the floor maniac.
I know this is well after the fact but she should have never had a chance to practice this behavior. I do agree though that it was the best decision to give her back to preserve the sanity of humans and dog.
 
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Having had pups and cats together before I need to say that her behavior was over the top in comparison to the gsd pups I had in the past. She didn't just give chase, but rather shut off her hearing and switched into a frantic sliding all over the floor maniac.
LOL ...oh I don't doubt it. I'm an old hand at the cat dog thing! I have lots of stuff from the experts on here and up to what 17 cats and five dogs for over 14 years at one time or another and never had an issue so my own advise and experiance to add.

I've had absolutely freaking cat proof dogs my guys don't even perceive cats in the environment! Rocky "proved" that one twice! The first time I figured well maybe he did not see them ... they saw him and I saw them. I looked at Rocky and nope nothing??? But the last one was feet away ... he had to see that as he was pointed that way but ... cat's are not prey so whatever ... I don't care. :)

Most likely my other dogs had been doing or ... not doing the cat ignoring thing for years and I just had not noticed?? I was surprised when I found I'd been feeding a couple of stray cats in our yard for months?? One day I saw this big furry guy eating dinner of the patio table and right above a couple of my dogs ... they paid the stranger no heed at all. :)

But then .... Pit off the street rescue while on my way to work recently!!! A real sweetheart, great with Rocky great with people but the cats??? Uh oh ... we got a "serious freaking issue right here???

That dog was short, fast agile and freaking powerful ... I'd always had hybrids but not a pure "Pit??" I was stunned at how strong that freaking dog was??? And I had no crate as I was not expecting to be taking in a dog uh that day??? But ... I do have five cats and now ... as I was soon to discover I had a "freaking serious" cat dog problem!

I did manage to keep my core principles intact ...once I got home and released the "Cats as it were." ... despite "Joe Galaxies" advise ... My Cats don't need "escape routes" becasue they have nothing to escape from! It's the dog's job to fit in not the Cat's job to adjust, is how I roll!

And ... we got it done ... 24 hours later the new threat to life and limb of my cats ... laid down if approached by the cats! "Proof of concept provided" by my apt named "Spooky" when she first came in the living room and saw that dog (who was on a SLL) the dog moved and "Boom" she was gone!!! Honestly ... I did not expect to see her (spooky) in the living room for days, if not weeks or months?? But ... after some very hard SLL leash corrections ... sigh "straight up pressure" not sideways, corrections sideways would have been a waste of time with this dog!

No Crate at hand ... no time for the "Two week shutdown" or the "Place Command." I had a situation that needed to be handled ... right freaking now!! So drag leash and Consequences for "poor choices" it was! And 24 hours later ..."Spooky" came out of hiding the dog saw her and laid down and "Spooky" proceeded to head butt her??? I was stunned???

So yeah ... "I" got it done in record time but I'm kinda disappointed because ... as I like to "say well if I can do it anyone can" because "I'm not a pro!" But you know I had no "Crate" so my hand was forced as it were. I had to go to work in another day and I could not leave "Marilyn" with five cats to keep safe ... one of them would have bolted from the back bedroom room sooner or later! And if that dog was not secured ... you had no chance of stopping her!! Sadly ... we had to give her back ..."Marilyn worked to hard to find her owners ... I felt. :(

But yeah so the drive thing ... I get it and it sounds like you just weren't ready to be dealing with that crap??? I have to say the behaviour as described ... I did "assume" it was a WL GSD?? So I was surprised ... those are not the types of behaviour I would have "suspected??"

Oh well I don't recommend WL GSD to anyone I know ... I'd have thought maybe possible ... if I found a new friend (All the friends and neighbors I know now are dog owning tools!) but this situation?? I guess even a SL GSD is/could be a dog to far???


Better luck next time but she is a beauty ... sorry it did not work out. :(
 
Discussion starter · #57 ·
I know this is well after the fact but she should have never had a chance to practice this behavior. I do agree though that it was the best decision to give her back to preserve the sanity of humans and dog.
Oh I agree with you, she should have never been allowed to practice that behavior and trust me I tried. But here is the thing, when she was on leash and wearing a prong collar she listened and obeyed me, however as soon as I put on the chokechain, I could see her becoming more disobedient, put on the leather collar, even less and off leash, well forget it. She was smart and she knew that when she was off leash all she had to do was move fast and I was not able to catch her to correct her. She is the only dog I have ever needed to use a prong collar on and what kind of dog needs a prong collar at 14 weeks?
 
Caroline, I have given up dogs too, for various reasons, many were fosters. Even re-homing fosters has been tough. I have never taken that lightly and it took me a long time before making a decision to do it and I have made sure they went to a safe and trusting home. After they left I always second guessed myself, even though I knew it was the right decision at the time. It takes some time to get really over it and you need some time to grieve the dog you wish you would have had. You learned a valuable lesson and the pup is safe. The breeder has much more information now about her so the next owner will be prepared. Take a breather and enjoy your peace for now.
 
I agree it was best to return the pup to the breeder - most showline breeders will be happy to have a pup with this much drive for their programs. This one sounds like she had your number quickly :) :) and played you as evidenced by the responses dependent on what equipment she wore....a pup who had her own agenda rather than wanting to please you is going to be harder to train and live with and a project for someone who wants a dog with this drive more for competition or some suitable work.

There are both showline and working line breeders who can and do produce a dog who will suit you......sifting through the sought after qualities, which is rhetoric which everyone knows and uses is the tough part.


Lee
 
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Discussion starter · #60 ·
Caroline, I have given up dogs too, for various reasons, many were fosters. Even re-homing fosters has been tough. I have never taken that lightly and it took me a long time before making a decision to do it and I have made sure they went to a safe and trusting home. After they left I always second guessed myself, even though I knew it was the right decision at the time. It takes some time to get really over it and you need some time to grieve the dog you wish you would have had. You learned a valuable lesson and the pup is safe. The breeder has much more information now about her so the next owner will be prepared. Take a breather and enjoy your peace for now.
Actually Aria won't be going anywhere except to Germany for IPO training when she is older. She is back home to stay with her mother and her siblings.
When they reintroduced Aria and Isa, her mother, who is smaller than Aria, Isa made it very clear who was boss and took Aria down several rungs on the ladder. Aria, who was always trying to be alpha was down on the ground begging for mercy, lol.

She has a lot of respect for the breeder and he has little trouble with her. His wife is still working on it.
 
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