Not all. Not by a long shot.

I have two GSDs right now, both rescues. The female is very chill, then again she's pushing ninety. The male can be, but isn't always. He's a young adult and we're getting a late start in training, but for him it's mostly genetics (aka poorly bred).

Have had GSDs most of my life and the ones that came from a responsible breeding program were just worlds apart from my rescues. My conclusion is that breeding plays a huge role, handling and training an equally important role.

As far as scanning constantly, they're herding dogs. What does your friend expect from a breed that was developed to monitor and direct herds of dozens of moving animals? Also, if a personal protection dog doesn't have a natural inclination to watch, what use is it, really One thing *all* of my GSDs have had in common: They totally know *every little thing* going on around them. Whether they react, though, I think is a factor in their breeding/handling/training equation.




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My male is 4 yrs old and not reactive,he has a fairly high threshold in most situations. He's been this way since puppyhood. Very neutral with other dogs and is aloof to strangers.
I agree with JackandMattie/ I want my dogs to be aware of their surroundings yet think before they react. That shows balance in the brain.
It sometimes comes with maturity, sometimes it never appears.
Not sure how many breeders place value on it, they are too focused on looks or the sport side. Many sport dogs are lower threshold/reactive but not so much aggressive, they just love to go off because they can and the off switch isn't much more than a dimmer switch.

 

My pup is leash reactive towards dogs but his is just frustration from not being able to greet and play with dogs while on leash. Off leash he is great with dogs if not a little bit over enthusiastic. But I wouldn't go as far as to say its bad breeding and I am a novice handler but I wouldn't call myself a 'bad' one. I attribute a lot of this to his age, he's 10 months old and an intact male... Also when we're training and herding he COMPLETELY ignores other dogs and pays them no mind even if they're in the pen with us so I have hope that he just needs to mature a bit.

There are a lot of variables but I know where I train, my local GSD club there are quite a few GSD's who can't be near the other dogs or who lunge and snap too.

 

Agreed Carriesue! Maturity is a factor I left out of the equation. Also, socialization. My sometimes reactive Jack missed that during the critical puppy weeks.


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My 3 year old female isn't reactive. She gets a tad excited to meet other dogs but she's not reactive or charging in.

 

My 4 year old byb male GSD is not reactive. He has no issues whatsoever with humans or other animals.

 

This is what I mean though...most of the GSDs I know that are reactive are not bad dogs, they are not from bad breedings and most have handlers that have worked really hard with them. It just seems like a very common go to behavior for a lot of GSDs. It just makes me wonder where it comes from and why it's so prevalent in the breed.

I have a GSD that is from a very nice breeding that is reactive. For example a few months ago we walked into the barn we normally do agility in and that day there happened to be a horse running around in circles (don't know what you call that lol) in the arena we work in. The instant he saw the horse he totally flipped out, full on reaction. He got a slip collar correction and we stood there for a minute for him to look at it. He calmed down and we went about our training. Next time we saw the horse he got a little ruffled but was fine.

My other GSD exact same scenario, looked at the horse, thought about it a second, decided he didn't care and we went about training. THAT doesn't seem to be what you commonly see in GSDs.

 

I've had 7 GSDs and only 1 has been what I would call reactive. Mauser was attached by another GSD at a training session and is now large dog aggressive/reactive.

He has no problems with small dogs - just the large ones.

My other 6 GSDs had no reactivity issues at all.

 

From what I know or been told about my two..female is probably from a back yard breeder and the male seems to be on the well bred side. My female is great with everything and doesn't react at all, she has good nerves and is very well balanced and always has been. The male reacts to dogs on a leash, even the ones he lives with. He has a great temperament, so we are thinking it is not in the genes but in the lack of training. I can't wait for the day when he doesn't react and we will work on it until we get there. I here the same thing from the vets. They are amazed by my female and how she is, they say that she is a true representation of the breed and they wish all of them could be like her. The reason I got a second one was because of how great she was, I wasn't counting on getting one that was even a little reactive..Its not his fault, he does have potential.

 

I think you are drawing your conclusions from a very limited sampling, there are reactive dogs, but there are many that aren't what I call reactive, and many that are quite docile.

 

Your right I only personally know about a dozen or so GSDs (the majority of which are reactive) and its possible that the dozens of GSDs my friends who own training businesses see are maybe just problem dogs. Kinda like how most dogs vets see are unhealthy.

Just seems like a pretty common problem, maybe it's local.

 

it's the people handling the dog. they don't know how to train,
socialize, take general care of the dog, bad trainers, no consistency
in training or socializing. reactivity isn't breed specific.

 

it's the people handling the dog. they don't know how to train,
socialize, take general care of the dog, bad trainers, no consistency
in training or socializing.

Sorry, but that's totally not true.

 

I'm really starting to believe more and more that temperament is in fact largely genetic. I used to fully believe in nurture over nature but I have seen and personally experienced that you can make small changes to temperament but largely it is what it is.

 

This is probably good news for me. Mine has a great temperament with everything except those dogs on a leash, so I have hope that he can eventually accept everything with some nurturing. His disposition and temperament are what sold me on him.

 

Haven't read all the responses, but this is becoming more and more true for all dogs, not just GSDs. It's what happens in countries with minimal regulations on breeding, little to no attention to the "standard," and very little regard to temperaments and nerves.

EDIT: Also a piece to the puzzle is owners humanizing dogs, treating them like children, giving no boundaries, terrible training, etc...two way street...genetics and training, both are equally important pieces to the overall puzzle imo.

 

IMO, this over reactivity is a reflection of nerve issues or being overly defensive, where the dog is insecure and wants to chase the perceived threat away. Again, this goes back to the decline of the breed as a whole.

 

On the flip side of that there is the reactivity caused by over excitement which when combined with restraint causes frustration. Dog sees other dogs wants to run over. Held back by leash gets frustrated and reacts by lunging, barking etc.

 

reactivity, stop blaming the dog. start training and socializing
from a very young age.

 

Sometimes its not possible to start from an early age. In my case and I'm sure in lots of cases the dog comes to you like this, then the training can start, but its much harder at a year versus 8 weeks.

 

Thresholds are genetic...you can manage reactivity but you really can't train and socialize the dog out of it.

 

I believe this to a certain point. I believed it so much that I believe that I wasted some time thinking this way. My male(the reactive one) met my female on a leash and all he wanted to do is play. He never had the opportunity to have a distance, he came out and she was there. He adored her from the get go. It was the same with my two other dogs. He is a very playful dog and I truly believe that he wants to play. I can't treat it as aggression, because that I think is making it worse. I'm not sure what I need to do, but I do know that he does not know how to greet other dogs, which can be a problem for him. I do know that I will make it work and it will be my way

 

I am going to agree with doggiedad on this one. I feel that people on this forum are quick to say it is genetics... not much you can do. I do not believe that. And, I believe it tends to give the person with a reactive dog a reason not to try anymore. And this point-of-view is typically given without actually having seen the dog or the dog/handler interaction.

I believe it is a very small % of dogs that are truly unretrievable from a genetic standpoint.

Maybe, not all will become completely neutral, but they can be trained/socialized to be out in the world without it being an issue.

ETA: I feel this emphasis on genetics is particularly problematic when people apply it to rescue/shelter dogs. In my experience, these dogs rebound really quickly with a proper home.

 

ETA: I feel this emphasis on genetics is particularly problematic when people apply it to rescue/shelter dogs. In my experience, these dogs rebound really quickly with a proper home.

This is what most people think about mine. The trainers, all of them, believe that its a training issue. Its not a quick process, its a long drawn out process, but I won't stop until I get the results I'm looking for...shhhh don't tell Midnite he's met his match

 

is this something that goes along with the breed? Are these just ALL incorrect dogs? Bad handlers? I am just trying to get some perspective in this, seems to be a very common issue.

Classes start usually in the morning, and the majority of people, or they don't bother to exercise their young dogs properly before driving to the place of training, or they simply make a mistake thinking that if their dog "comes fresh" he will be in a better form. Wrong. Try it yourself, and you will see how different your dog can be, when he chases his ball for 1 hour before you meet him with exciting smells and awkward situation. It is also advisable to refreshen learned commands in less stressful environment in your local park before the classes, when you see that sparkle in his eyes telling you he wants nothing but you - you can be sure you can engrave something onto his doggy memory, if he is not with you - means that his legs are dragging him somewhere to the green fields and his brain is dragging after.

 

@gsdraven, you are a very experienced handler. I trust that you are right about your dogs.

But, I have seen a lot of dogs who have been given up to a shelter/rescue because they are "aggressive," "hyper," "uncontrollable," etc... and they were not. They did great in foster homes and then new forever homes.

ETA: And, again, that is why I feel that this board's emphasis on treating every problem as "genetic weakness" is a problem in a rescue/shelter context.

 

But, I have seen a lot of dogs who have been given up to a shelter/rescue because they are "aggressive," "hyper," "uncontrollable," etc... and they were not. They did great in foster homes and then new forever homes.

I think this is more a handler issue than anything else - many people simply do not want to put in the effort to meet their dogs' needs. Not to mention how many people lie about why they are really giving up their dog.

ETA: And, again, that is why I feel that this board's emphasis on treating every problem as "genetic weakness" is a problem in a rescue/shelter context.

I don't disagree but it is the safer route. Telling people that all they need to do is socialize more without being able to see if the dog is fearful/nervous/aggressive/etc is asking for trouble. It could end up with someone getting bit.

 

Don't forget, most shelter environments(and many rescues) are very stressful for most dogs, and GSD's are not good candidates for living in a shelter for long without showing behavioral problems. Then they are not evaluated properly.
The dogs that don't show any stress are probably of excellent nerve.

 

I agree completely. The fact is that for most rescue/shelter dogs to even make it to an adoption floor (or to be eligible for rescue transport) is a huge testament to their temperament.

This is sad because so many dogs become so stressed in a shelter environment that they display behaviors that are totally context-dependent. And, in most cases, these behaviors are a death sentence for the dog.

For those dogs that make it, they may still come into a home with reactivity issues - particularly since there are a lot of transports from rural to urban areas. So, the dogs are experiencing a lot of new things all at once. And, I would hate the adopter to come to this forum, read a thread like this, and think that there is no hope because it is all genetics. Because, in this context, more often than not, it is not!!!!

 

I didn't realize this board treated every reactive issue as genetic....I can remember posts clearly describing reactivity as being, lack of socialization, genetic, or handler/owner inexperience.....but maybe it was another forum I read this on. Oh Well, I seem to get confused quite easily these days....lol

 

Not all, but many. It is often a first line on reactivity, fearfulness, etc...

At least it happens enough that someone like me, who is relatively new to this board, was really relieved that I didn't come here before I started to get to know GSDs in shelter/rescue through fostering and then adopting.

While it is true that not every GSD I have fostered would meet the breed standard (although some not just met it, but were exemplars, IMO), most were great dogs and great pets!

My dog is a great pet for me! Solid in every urban situation that he is exposed to... and he goes almost everywhere with me. But, is he a great example of the GSD breed standard? Not in every aspect. I don't care.... that is the beauty of adopting... the only standard he has to meet is mine : )

 

@Merciel, nice post!

I think this board is a great resource. But, I do sometimes worry about what new or potential 'adopters' take away from it.

You really do have to read here for awhile to be able to discern the fact that people's advice, on any given thread, comes from different sets of experiences.

 

I think genetics play a large role in this. I got Dillinger at 4months old. He was an aloof puppy, he didn't go out of his was to meet people but would gladly come to you for attention if you called him or had a tasty treat. I work at a grooming salon, picked him up on Monday and he came to work with me that Tuesday. I was working there 6 days a week and he came with me every single day. Customers always greeted him and gave him treats. People were always a positive thing as well as clients dogs that I trusted to greet him. During walks I would ASK people to pet my puppy and petsmart and the grocery store parking lots was our hang out spot until he was 8-9 months. He became very reactive and would even bark at the same customers he would see every week or two. I feel as a pet owner that I did my part in socializing him. I have the perfect job where I can take my pets to work. I have worked with him A LOT and he can now walk through crowds, go to social events and is very calm while out as well. His biggest issue is accepting touch from a stranger approaching him. Most people ask if they can pet him and I have zero shame in saying NO. There have been those " surprise" people and he handles it well but I do pull him away and try to educate people on grabbing strange dogs. Most are understanding but there's those few ignorant people that will never understand. My main conclusion after this LOOOONG rant (sorry guys!) Is that my boy is a genetic mess. He is a FANTASTIC dog with his chosen few, but has his share of health and personality issues.

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I think a big part of the problem is many *lay* people don't 'believe' in the genetic component. They also attribute certain behaviors (like uncertainty, caution, etc) to "fear" and then they "comfort" the dog. They can't recognize which behaviors in a dog are genetic and which are just training issues. If the dog is adopted, they are quick to jump on the "abused" bandwagon. When you combine this with improper reaction and response by the human, you do create a reactive dog in many cases that then has to be *uncreated*, if possible. The truly genetic ones aren't helped in this scenario either, because likely they aren't managed properly or taught behaviors to replace the reactive ones.

My dog is not reactive to people at all. He also is non-reactive to dogs now as well. (Well, we haven't had a barking on leash episode since last August, so I'm assuming it was a maturity thing --he's now two and we've met many dogs since and is fine) Lastly, he's not a tad bit reactive to loud noises at all either. Thunder, fireworks, gunshots, chainsaws, kids screaming, nothing...... I don't know if this is all genetic or a very small combination of the fact that when I got him at 9 weeks, I did not know then what I know now about genetics :blush: and I just assumed he was a clean slate for me to shape; my attitude towards all of those things was very positive and laid back, basically assuming and signaling to the pup that everything was all good. I lean towards the genetic part, since the dog I had at 21 was the same, except for fireworks and bad thunderstorms. Never got him over that (which is not the same as reactivity towards people--he was fine).

 

Incorrect dogs or bad handlers?

I'm not sure to be honest, I guess it really comes down to the individual dogs & handlers.

I am a novice handler and my dog is reactive with other dogs. I'm sure there are things I need to improve upon as a handler (scratch that, I *know* there are), but I socialized the heck out of my dog.

This was a problem that was evident very early on, I'd say 9 weeks of age or so? I'm not sure if the breeder would have known about this, because the puppies were introduced to her closed pack of dogs, they hadn't had all their shots so were probably not introduced to dogs outside the pack. She did take them around to grocery stores etc. so got lots of human socialization before she came home with me.

I had her in puppy class at 10 weeks of age, grade 1 overlapped the last week of puppy class and put her into grade 2 a couple of weeks after grade 1. I took her out to flyball tournaments to see all the dogs in action, scent detection workshops, I took her to schutzhund training to watch, I take her on hikes with my friend and her 4 dogs. She was in doggy daycare for months and months, I took her to the park, by the splash pad to see kids running around and playing almost every night for several weeks, we sat outside the grocery store to see people come and go, I even took her to Bass Pro Shop and put her in a shopping cart and browsed around.

So while I do think I could be a better handler, I also think I worked pretty darned hard at socializing her.

Even her breeder told me, when I asked her what I was doing wrong, that it shouldn't be so hard. So while I may have some failings as a handler, I also think my dog is hardwired to be this way. I keep working at it, but I honestly am not sure if it's something we can overcome. I hope so though.

As for dogs in shelters, they have often come from abusive or neglectful homes and can be fearful at first, until they learn to trust again. I don't know if you can ever really get a true sense of what a dog really is at a shelter, I think they are probably scared and in survival mode.