[mike2010]

Dear All,
I know that a related topic has been covered in the recent thread at http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1335085&page=1#Post1335085 however I'd like to ask a question that is more to do with kids than the other thread which is more whether GSD is right for a single person.

Basically, we have 3 kids under 5 years old, and I'd like to get a dog, and having done a lot of research on the internet I am thinking that a GSD most meets all of our requirements. The dog would have to be good with our kids, but also be good at guarding the house, as there seems to be a spate of burglaries taking place in our area.

We have quite a large garden (about half an acre) that is fully fenced in, so the dog would be able to have fun running around. I work 9-5, so I would be able to take it for a walk each evening, and also let it run around for a while each morning and last thing at night.

My parents have a lab, and whenever they visit us with him he is very tolerant of the kids, and will even let a toddler prod his face without batting an eyelid! However, what I've read about GSDs being highly intelligent, trainable and loyal (and more protective than labs) is swaying me a bit in the direction of the GSD. But I wanted to do more research before making a 15 year committment, so thought it would be a good idea to post here. By the way, we quite often have classmates of my kids visiting the house, so would that be a potential problem with a GSD? or if he is raised from a pup with kids around him will be be tolerent like my parents' lab?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! (just don't shoot me down for being a naive novice!)

many thanks
mike

 

[onyx'girl]

Welcome to this great site!
GSD's are fine with kids as long as they are socialized early on and it continues during the imprinting stages during adolescence.
By getting a GSD from a reputable breeder(do your research) the temperament is as important as the health.
A breeder that does the proper <u>puppy</u> <u>raising</u> can set them up to succeed, and then the owner has to follow thru with that!
Another option would be going with a reputable rescue and getting an older pup that has been temperament tested already. There are many great jewels in the rescue world.
A GSD won't be real happy to be running around alone in your garden area, boredom may set in, they can get into trouble. They need to be with their pack!
They need mental stimulation as well as physical exercise, so interaction is very important.
One problem that seems to crop up, is when the dog only knows the family members, so when "strangers"(your friends, relatives) enter your home, your dog may be reactive to this.
It is important to not isolate the dog from other people, and have your kids friends interact with the pup from the get-go(under your supervision).

 

[MaggieRoseLee]

Quote:Basically, we have 3 kids under 5 years old, and I'd like to get a dog, and having done a lot of research on the internet I am thinking that a GSD most meets all of our requirements. The dog would have to be good with our kids, but also be good at guarding the house, as there seems to be a spate of burglaries taking place in our area.

If you get a GSD puppy from a good responsible breeder, they do fine with children. That wouldn't make me hesitate to get a GSD.

What WOULD make me hesitate is this part of your post:

Quote:Basically, we have 3 kids under 5 years old,

and this:

Quote: We have quite a large garden (about half an acre) that is fully fenced in, so the dog would be able to have fun running around. I work 9-5, so I would be able to take it for a walk each evening, and also let it run around for a while each morning and last thing at night.

Because truthfully what makes our breed such a great bomb/police/search and rescue/Schutzhund/herding/tracking/etc. dog........................ is EXACTLY what makes raising the puppies a HUGE challenge the first year or so.

To the extent that if I didn't mentally feel prepared and have the TIME to give birth (or foster) another newborn CHILD in my house....then I wouldn't feel I had the time to add a GSD puppy. The housebreaking, cleanup, dog baths, brushing, feeding, TRAINING and real exercise (hour or so a DAY) are a huge commitment.

And if you weren't able to give that huge new time commitment, the very things that make our breed such good
bomb/police/search and rescue/Schutzhund/herding/tracking/etc. dogs.....can make that adorable puppy you brought into the house a nightmare.

My first dog ever was a yellow Lab puppy and I thought I was just a natural dog trainer owner cause she was so perfect so early on. Well my next puppy was a GSD and reality set in with all the real 'work' that can be involved with raising a puppy.

As far as protecting your house, ANY larger dog works for this. Why even bother with a loud barky dog that may bite you when down the street they have no dog at all? So just getting a GSD to guard your house isn't necessary, a Lab would work for that.

So if you and your wife are so well organized and currently have enough free time (and energy?) to add another baby to your house.... then you may be ready for a GSD after all.

Otherwise, I'd wait about 5 yrs cause then the kids can help with some of the walks and feeding and general maintenace. And a puppy won't just end up being another chore for the adults along with the laundry, vacuuming, cleaning, shopping, carpooling.....

I'd really wait for any puppy, but ESPECIALLY a GSD puppy. They can be very very bitey the first year or so (they just want to play but it HURTS and kids are right at their eye level) to the extent we have a sticky on Teaching Bite Inhibition (click here).

 

[Tihannah]

Others in this forum are a lot more knowledgeable on the breed than I am and can give you some great advice, but for me, personally, I decided to wait. I have four children, 10, 8, & 5 yr old twins. My husband wanted a GSD for years, but I refused, saying that the kids were too young and the dog was too big. Now I have always owned a dog, so my children are used to always having one around, and they know the rules. The dogs are NOT a toy, and they know what they CAN and CANNOT do when it comes to handling our dogs. For instance, we have a 7 yr old yorkie. The kids can pet or rub on her, but CANNOT pick her up. She knows kids as well as they know her, and the fact that they can be clumsy and not pick her correctly or drop her, so if they try to, she will nip at them. Adults are fine though. This was one of my biggest arguments for getting a GSD. If my 7lb yorkie nips at them, it more or less just makes them jump and then leave her alone. But if an 80lb GSD nips at them, there could be serious injury involved, and I wasn't ready to take that risk.

For me, this process is NOT just about training your dog to be tolerant of your kids, but training your kids to be tolerant of your dog. If your kids have never lived around dogs, then bringing in a new GSD will not only be stressful on you, but the dog as well, because especially at the age of your kids, neither the kids nor the dog know what is right or wrong when handling each other. Even when the neighbors kids come over to play, I put my little dogs inside. My husband allowed my chi out to play with the kids one day, and my 8yr old neighbors daughter decided it would fun to throw her up in the air and not catch her, instead letting her hit the pavement and injure her leg.

GSD puppies are very hyper active and do A LOT of mouthing, biting, jumping, etc. Will the kids be able to handle that? Perhaps if you adopted an older dog that was already used to be around young children, and used to the things they do. Climbing on the dog, pulling tails and ears, etc. These are just some things to think about. But as a parent, I would seriously think this through. JMHO.

 

[JakodaCD OA]

I think you have gotten alot of good advice above, and will add my (maybe unpopular) opinion.

I am of the opinion, you should wait until your kids are older. Having one kid under 5 is one thing, but having 3 is a whole different ball game.

Even getting a puppy from a good breeder is probably not going to stop the 'puppy phaze". They are 'jaws on wheels' and take ALOT of time.

Walking them in the morning/giving them full reign of the backyard and walking them at nite, is definately not enough for alot of gsd's.
Left to their own devices they will find something to do, which may not be a good thing to do.

There are many posts on this board involving puppies/young dogs who are either really good with kids, or not.

Kids that young, do not understand "do not sit on FIdo, do not pull on Fido's tail, leave Fido alone", you can't expect them to at this age, which is not conducive in my opinion to raising an all around good dog.

The kid factor isn't even my biggest problem here, the amount of time you stated interacting with puppy/dog just doesn't sound like enough to me at this time..

Anyhow, JMHO

 

[dogsnkiddos]

I have dogs and kids. I had dogs before kids....I have had new dogs since kids. We have had the gamut- puppies, teens, seniors- our own dogs and foster dogs. It is a LIFESTYLE choice we made (I see dog ownership, especially a GSD as making a huge change in lifestyle) and it has enhanced our lives. It did not, DOES not come, without a huge amount of work. Everything that makes the dogs a part of the family, enjoyable to be with, fun to have, comes with DAILY hard work.

My kids are now 5 and 7. They have grown up in a household with dogs and learned from a very early age what was expected from them in terms of behavior toward the dogs. It took lots and lots of effort -TRAINING- to get them to be appropriate dog companions. I had to teach them NOT to jump on the dog...pull fur or tails, etc. While the dog might be tolerant of these things WHY should it have to be? From the earliest of ages I had them involved in the care of the dogs: feeding, cleaning, exercising, training. It is a LOT of work on the KID side of things that I think parents often overlook. You need to help the pet and child develop the relationship YOU want them to have. The onus is on you.

Then there is the training that is necessary to keep your dog healthy and happy. As a thinking breed they need a lot. Just running about in the backyard is not usually enough exercise. Are you able to get up at the crack of dawn to take your dog for a hike or jog? How about a 4 am herding session? How will this mesh with the needs of the family- particularly small children? Are you going to be able to make the dog work for every little thing? Or will it become too hard to keep that up with lots of small children about not doing so? Is your spouse/partner on board for all the time this takes? I know having had small children it is hard to squeeze even an extra second out of the day. I needed my husband to be not only on board, but participating in the needs of the dog (and we had 4 in addition to the 2 kids in cloth diapers....)

As for puppy vs adult.... well we have had two of our dogs that were really very much "kid" dogs (one died a few years ago and is awfully missed). We did not have either as puppies. Both were rescues and came to us around 2-3 years of age. They are/were far better than the dog we had since she was 8 weeks old or the Beast who came to us around 7-8 months old. As a bonus, both were housebroken, past the chewing stage (kids were always sad when Beast chewed their toys, clothes, toes...), more or less calm and settled in their personalities. Not having to house train or puppy proof was really awesome. The human babies took a lot of that sort of time and if we had added a puppy at that point it would have been like adding in a human newborn....just too much for me!

It's a lot to consider. You simply need to ask yourself how much time you REALLY have. That might really help answer your question....

 

[Emoore]

A GSD puppy from a good breeder can grow up to be great with children.
However,
NO PUPPY is good with kids. They're little furry alligators.

Have you considered an adult dog that is known to be calm and good with children?

 

[MaggieRoseLee]

I just want to say how proud I am of the members of this site and all the well thought out suggestions and information just given the OP.

You all ROCK!!!

 

[Zoeys mom]

I have a lab, GSD, and children. My lab is amazing with my kids, very protective of our home, and great with strangers; but so far so is my GSD. I picked Zoe based on her interctions with my kids so bringing yours along to meet pups is a good idea. We take Zoe everywhere with us to socilize her young which means she goes with me to drop them off at school, pick them up, on play dates, to the park, and to their outdoor sports activities. The one thing I have noticed is Zoe tolerates affection from strangers, and my lab expects and wants it. Both of my dogs love to play with other dogs, but that takes effort on your part to get them around other dogs daily.

Also, kids can be good with dogs if you train your kids to be. Both of my kids grew up with dogs and were taught no poking, pulling, sitting, jumping, or other rough behavior but keep an eye out for it and you'll be fine. Take the pup everywhere and make play fun. My kids love to play fetch with them, hide and seek with toys, and other games which teaches pup and kid what appropriate interaction is. Good luck!!!

 

[Regen]

Excellent advice already given. I will just reiterate what was said and will add my 2 cents. I have 3 children, one of which has autism. We decided to get a dog, when we saw how wonderfully my autistic guy responded to my sisters dog. At the time he was 7 and my youngest was 3. Even though I always wanted a GSD, everyone was telling us to get an easier breed. We ended up with a Golden retriever. And she was a complete nightmare as a pup

She was so headstrong and perhaps not all that bright, I don't know, but even the vet we took her to, voiced concerns over her temperament. I refused to give up an her, but she really tested our patience. That being said, I am not a believer of choosing a Lab or a Golden because some people think they are easier. Every single dog, even within the same breed is different, and I am not a fan of generalizations. My GSD Leica was a dream come true when we got her. Always ready to please, never biting, chewing stuff up, the complete opposite of my Golden.

My real concern with getting a GSD ( or perhaps any puppy ) for you, is that you have 3 very young children, and from what I understand you both work full time. Both my pups required sooo much time and effort. I socialized them every day. I supervised any and all interactions with the kids. It is hard work, and very tiring, and you already have so much going on with young kids.

A young pup, will require supervision, not ever be left to his own devices in a large yard, where he can get into tons of trouble. He needs a strong leader. I am not saying you can't provide those things, and if you are eager and willing then you will end up with great, loyal, companion for you and the kids, but please think about if you really have the time and energy to do what needs to be done. So many GSDs end up in shelters, because their owners, did not educate themselves, and took the time to socialize and train them, when they were young pups, and then end up with an out of control problem at 6 month. I just don't want that to happen. Gsds are awesome and IMHO the best dogs anyone could ever have, but they require 100 % commitment, lots of knowledge, time, and strong leadership to get there. If you have that ...go for it. If now you may not be able to give a pup all it needs, please wait until you are ready .

 

[aubie]

Great advice from everyone!

I'll just add, while I don't have kids, I can't imagine having three at a young age and a puppy. I know what I've gone through with no kids and a puppy! GSDs like to be with their people, and are typically good with kids. Mine is and we don't have any, she's just drawn to them.

What I might suggest, is take a year or so to do research to find a good breeder to find the right pup for you. By then, the kids will be a little older and better able to understand how to or not to treat a pup or dog.

 

[SunCzarina]

Is your wife home with the kids during the day? As someone else pointed out, these are not a breed that can be left out in the yard all day. They cause trouble.

If your wife is into getting a GSD pup and is on board (and I mean this one) with the training and socializing, it could work out.

When Otto was 8 weeks old, I had a nearly 5 year old and 3 1/2 year old twins. I'm a work at home mom. It wasn't easy but he's growing up to be a great dog.

However, I've had GSDs my whole life. When I got Otto, I had a 7 year old female GSD that my children were raised with - they're dog savy and they were interested in learning how to train the pup. They're lousy at it and my oldest still doesn't get why Otto isn't more like my older dog lol but we manage.

 

[mike2010]

Thank you everyone for all the great advice!
Its also great as a newcomer to the forum to receive such a kind and warm welcome - so thank you everyone!

Looks like there is quite consistent advice that just now is too busy a time for us to take in a puppy. I guess this is actually right (and perhaps I was slightly kidding myself, fuelled perhaps by my enthusiasm!)
Also, for the time being, both my wife and I are working full time 9-5 so, apart from the evening walk, and the twice daily runabout in the garden, the dog would be in the house most of the day during weekdays. Hopefully my wife (and perhaps I) will be able to start part-time working in the future, which may make things a bit easier...

I think I might chat with some breeders and get hold of some GSD books for the time being, but probably I'll put the plan on hold for a while.

Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to give such great advice - its much appreciated!

many thanks
mike

 

[aubie]

That sounds like a good decision for you, your family and any future puppy!

Stick around though, there's tons of info on here that you'll never learn in books. Ask Smyke, he hung around and now has an adorable little puppin!!

 

[MaggieRoseLee]

Quote:I think I might chat with some breeders and get hold of some GSD books for the time being, but probably I'll put the plan on hold for a while.

That's a great idea. There are so many 'flavors' of GSD out there and what's ideal for you and your family may not be for me and mine. So spending the time doing research and developing a relationship with responsible breeders is a good thing to do. Even better if you can, with all your free time

go visit and help and really see different dogs and the ways to train.

 

[zyppi]

In the future, I see a GSD in your household.

You're wise to wait - for any puppy.

I had 3 children in three years so I can relate to how busy and demanding your life must be.

The best thing about a German Shepherd puppy is that they are bright, active, and trainable. The worst thing is they are bright, active and need training...

Good luck and keep on learning.

In the meantime, start training your babies to respect all animals and you'll be leaps and bounds ahead when you do get your pup.

 

[ThorDog]

We are on the same boat, we have a female GSD that is a dream with our son and we would love to get a male but we will wait until our son is older. The advice here is great, you do need to make a huge time committment on raising a GSD, otherwise many end up in shelters because of the owners and that they were more dog than they could handle. We had an unfortunate incident in our home but the bright side is our GSD was nothing but a gem with our son.

What line would you recommend for a family dog. Not too much of a high drive, active family but not a "run 10 miles a day family" People who have had GSDs but would like a more mellow companion? I am researching lines and breeders for the future.

Thanks!!!

 

[KindOfBlues71]

Excellent advice here, and I think you're wise to wait until your kids are older and you have more free time. We have a 5yr old son, 3yr old daughter and 4yr old and 8mo old female GSDs. The older GSD is a dream. She is mellow, sweet, was easily trained and is inseparable from our son. The 8mo old is ALL PUPPY - hyper, tries to chew up everything she can, is difficult to train. Basically the polar opposite of our older GSD. It's very challenging to try and work with her when there are two little ones running around, especially when all three of them refuse to listen.

Before we got our GSD puppy we wanted to adopt a 1-2 yr old GSD rescue but every place we looked had restrictions against placing dogs into households with children under 6 or 7 yrs old. I was pretty bummed about that because I really wanted to adopt, so our only option was to get a puppy. If you're considering adoption be sure to check the restrictions before you start looking at any dogs or you could wind up heartbroken.

Lastly, if you decide to get a puppy I cannot stress enough the importance of picking a litter that's ready to bring home in the spring. Because standing in the backyard late at night in the middle of winter and trying to potty train a puppy that wants to run around is The SUCK.

Best of luck to you!
-KindofBlues71