In the GSD standard , the white coat color is not acceptable. The way I understand it is that since the GSD was to be a working dog, a white coat would stand out at night and the dog would be a target for the enemy. So the white shepherds are not GSDs. Hopefully others will reply and explain if there are other differences.

 

Not GSD's??? I don't think that is correct. White Shepherds are just as much GSD's as are blues and any other coat color that isn't allowed to compete. They are still GSD's just not allowed to compete in the show ring. As far as I know they can still compete in everything else.

 

No they are not GSD's. No matter what you say, the SV will NOT and NEVER recognize the white coat. That is why they are Berger Blanc Suisse, the White Swiss Shepherd Dog! In order for them to be accepted, they must be the Swiss Shepherd. It's better that way. So to me, there is no such thing as the White German Shepherd. There is a white Shepherd, a White Swiss Shepherd and the Berger Blanc Suisse but there is NEVER a white German Shepherd!

The AKC is the only registry accepted by the FCI, so it's time that the AKC should actually recognize the Berger Blanc Suisse, like the rest of the world.

People should get a grip and finally come to terms with that!

 

It's confusing to me... I've read where the White Swiss Shepherd is linked to the German Shepherd, and the White German Shepherd lost acceptance under Hitler's rule in Germany.... but what I've read kind of talks in circles, so I'm not finding an out-right answer. Of course I've been having to read in spurts, so I could be missing something.

 

White German Shepherd Dog - The color white is caused by a recessive masking gene introduced into the breed from the very beginning. White coated German Shepherds can be registered with the AKC as German Shepherd Dogs. The disqualifying fault for the color white means the dogs can't be shown in the conformation ring but they are allowed to take part in all other AKC events. (obedience, agility etc.)

White Swiss Shepherd also known as the White Shepherd and Berger Blanc Suisse. Not recognized by the AKC but recognized by the UKC and the FCI. Shares a common ancestry with the white coated GSD but is bred to a different standard.

Breeders who support recognition for the White Shepherd in the AKC (and CKC) typically refer to their dogs as White Shepherds or White Swiss Shepherds even if they're still being registered as GSD's. Breeders who produce white coated German Shepherd Dogs call them GSD's or White German Shepherds.

 

Thank you for such a great definition. I should print it out and carry it with me whenever I am walking Scarlett. I always seem to get this question and never have the succinct answer.

 

Where does "Swiss" come into it, is what I am curious about.

 

Very informative and long article
White German Shepherd Dog Club of America, Inc. || The Breed || White German Shepherd Dog vs. White Shepherd

 

Very informative and long article
White German Shepherd Dog Club of America, Inc. || The Breed || White German Shepherd Dog vs. White Shepherd

Information about when the whites were disqualified from the ring can be found on the AWSA website on this page, down along the right hand side. History of the White Shepherd, American White Shepherd Association Not sure why the WGSDCA says the information isn't available, it was printed in the GSD Review.

 

The Berger Blanc Suisse (White Swiss Shepherd) parent club in Switzerland is given credit for establishing the new breed in the FCI and they got to pick the breed name. I would guess they're proud of their accomplishments and their country, hence the word "Swiss".

 

Huh?

I have researched both sides of the argument and although I am in agreement with one, I do not see the need to make statements that are derrogatory or inflamatory to the others. Each and everyone of us has a common love of the GSD. Let's remember that. It is arguments like these that turn folks off.

 

I have researched both sides of the argument and although I am in agreement with one, I do not see the need to make statements that are derrogatory or inflamatory to the others. Each and everyone of us has a common love of the GSD. Let's remember that. It is arguments like these that turn folks off.

True, I'm pretty new to this board and have a WGSD. I do sometimes feel that whites aren't quite as "likeable" here. We all have our favorite coloring, so why exclude people? From my understanding, the WGSD is genetically the same to a colored (just iwth the recessive coat) and the other names are to get it a place in the show ring, but I could be wrong.

 

People should move forward instead of being stuck in the past. The rest of the world has accepted the Berger Blanc Suisse and he was first recognized in Switzerland and registered in Switzerland for a reason. http://www.berger-blanc-international.com/#FCI - Breeder

 

Question

Mrs. K,

I am in no way trying to be obstinant or create a conflict, but I do have a question. If two registerred Black and Red GSD's are bred and the litter of seven pup produces two white ones, are they GSD's? Is the contention that they should not be GSD's. I understand the confirmation, and thought they were GSD's, but could not be shown. Again I mean no disrespect and am not wanting to be a problem, I am curious as to what the position is of the SV.

Thanks

 

Mrs. K,

I am in no way trying to be obstinant or create a conflict, but I do have a question. If two registerred Black and Red GSD's are bred and the litter of seven pup produces two white ones, are they GSD's? Is the contention that they should not be GSD's. I understand the confirmation, and thought they were GSD's, but could not be shown. Again I mean no disrespect and am not wanting to be a problem, I am curious as to what the position is of the SV.

Thanks

It's not only that they cannot be shown, they cannot be registered or listed, period. They are not accepted at all and as far as the Club is concerned, the white German Shepherd does not exist.
Personally I do not know of any cases. It doesn't mean they are not out there but personally I have not ever met a breeder that had a case of a white shepherd being born out of his breeding. Long-Stock coat, yeah, even Long Coat but I have not seen a white Shepherd.

 

** comment removed by ADMIN. Comment totally uncalled for, insulting and confrontational**

Anyway I'm off to get my Wiggles spayed. No puppies of any color for us. Have a good day.

 

According to this from the AKC website, it looks like the AKC isn't going to be admitting Berger Blanc Swiss dogs anytime soon.

"The FSS® is not open to "rare" breeds that are a variation of an AKC-registrable breed or the result of a combination of two AKC-recognized breeds. This includes and is not limited to differences such as size (over and under), coat type, coat colors, and coat colors and/or types that are disqualifications from Conformation Events by AKC breed standards."

 

According to this from the AKC website, it looks like the AKC isn't going to be admitting Berger Blanc Swiss dogs anytime soon.

Thats unfortunate. My breeder told me there was some progress this year on getting white swiss shepherds recognized with the AKC, but I'm not sure what that is.

 

**Deleted post removed so no reason for the comment. **

 

Thanks

Thanks Mrs. K. I have only seen this once as well.

 

So, let me ask this, and maybe someone here can clarify for me.
The bull terrier has two varieties, the White and the Colored. The cocker spaniel has ASCOB, black and party.... why could they not do the same for German Shepherds?
It these breeds were listed separately, can I assume that at some point there's a reason behind it? Was one not accepted, then was accepted? It everything is the same but the coat color/pattern... then why could they not compete against each other all in one group?

 

(Taboo maybe?) But doesn't the Continental Kennel Club have a separate listing for White German Shepherds?

 

I don't see this argument getting anywhere...me and my non-existent dog are gonna go relax with a game of fetch.

 

It is what it is. In Germany the WGSD is banned for over 60 years. I grew up with them being the Canadian Shepherd and now they are Berger Blanc Suisse.

Simple as that... just because the AKC had to make it's own rules, doesn't make it right.

 

Yeah...I'm just gonna go out and get my not-real dog some bully sticks and then take him to CGC class. No reason to raise my BP over this. I believe what I believe, you believe what you are going to believe. Nothing either one of us can/will say can change that.

 

I have no issue with your believes. Just stating some facts. Again, these are the rules in Germany/Europe. A white Shepherd, is the Berger Blanc Suisse. We do not have white German Shepherds.

So your dog, to me, is a Berger Blanc Suisse or a white Shepherd but not a white German Shepherd.

 

Personally I don't think further narrowing of an already small gene pool by making the white GSD a separate breed is going to do anything good for these dogs in the future.

 

This is a myth. Fred Lanting wrote a good article about the gene pool for the whites and stated that it was more than sufficient to support the breed. I doubt he was guessing or making it up.

Well their loss. I and hopefully many others will NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER buy a SV/VDH/FCI dog because that is just ridiculous. Hopefully the AKC/UKC will not go that stupid!

The UKC recognizes the White Shepherd as a distinct breed separate and apart from the white coated German Shepherd Dog.

Simple as that... just because the AKC had to make it's own rules,

Mrs K just to clarify. The SV is a registry and a parent club. In the US the GSDCA is the parent club for the GSD, the AKC only registers them. The AKC is told what can and can't be done with a breed by the parent clubs. It wasn't the AKC that made the rules, it was the GSDCA.


I also wanted to add that the Berger Blanc Suisse are not the same as an SV GSD regardless of their ancestry and they are not the same as the American or Canadian white GSD's. They're the result of selective breeding for a structure and temperament that suited the purposes of the people who bred them. These are amazing dogs with some of the best attributes the GSD breed had to offer but they have their differences. The road they traveled to gain breed recognition wasn't easy or short, but it paid off.


The American White Shepherd Association is the parent club for the White Shepherd and the BBS (same dogs, name changes depending what country you live in) in the US and continues to work with the AKC in an effort to gain FSS status. At this point in time we (AWSA) are very pleased with our progress. Again, this isn't an easy or short road but we believe these dogs deserve to have full breed recognition out from under the stigma they've carried for so long and away from the GSDCA.


I wonder why the GSDCA holds on so tightly to dogs that carry one of the 5 disqualifying faults in the breed. (or maybe it's 6) If the job of a parent club is to protect the integrity of a breed one would think their first order of business would be to eliminate dogs that were intentionally bred with faults. If they don't believe the dogs are faulty why haven't they lifted the dq?? Food for thought.

 

I also wanted to add that the Berger Blanc Suisse are not the same as an SV GSD regardless of their ancestry and they are not the same as the American or Canadian white GSD's. They're the result of selective breeding for a structure and temperament that suited the purposes of the people who bred them. These are amazing dogs with some of the best attributes the GSD breed had to offer but they have their differences. The road they traveled to gain breed recognition wasn't easy or short, but it paid off.

It all goes back to the Canadian White Shepherd and White German Shepherd Dog. They imported dogs from Denmark, Canada, America left and right to create the breed. It is the White German Shepherd Dog but to get recognized by the FCI they had to start to breed selectively. Otherwise they would have never been accepted as a breed. Also, a lot of White Shepht therd breeders in Germany started to join the BBI once they had the chance to do so.
They have only been accepted since 2011.
From what I know was Switzerland the first country with 8 independent Bloodlines which is why the Société Cynologique Suisse, put in the application with the FCI to get the Berger Blanc Suisse.

 

smh!

 

The white dogs have been around a long time. They are GSDs. Capt. Max said a good dog cannot be a bad color. So Germany chose to dump them, everyone else should follow suit? I don't know. I really don't have a dog in this fight, but I doubt AKC will be willing to register them as a separate variety, because they put a moratorium on adding varieties to breeds. I think it adds up in the end, to more classes, more judging, though that might not be the thought process.

I think it is pretty sad that a new breed had to be created for dogs that exist, and are the same dog, just a different color.

And I think that the breed itself has moved forward in Germany and in America, and most of what I hear about that isn't all that positive. Instead we all go back to the past and say, this is what the dogs used to be like, or this is what schutzhund used to be. But now suddenly we should move forward and get out of the past?

I think it would be a huge mess for the AKC when a breeder has 7 pups and one is white, to either not register it at all, or to register it as a different breed. I just do not see either of those things happening. People used to cull the white ones. Read Winifred Strickland and Jimmy Moses' book, The German Shepherd Today. It tells you it is not so hard if you have off-color pups, but if they are all of equal quality... Do the Germans just cull them so no one knows their dogs threw a white pup? Or have too many generations gone by that the white ones are now extinct over there? It isn't so hard to maintain that they are not registered if they never happen. But people do have white ones here. So what do you do for those breeders, and those dogs?

 

I think it is pretty sad that a new breed had to be created for dogs that exist, and are the same dog, just a different color.

I don't think it's all that sad, just one of those things that happens in the dog world.

I think it would be a huge mess for the AKC when a breeder has 7 pups and one is white, to either not register it at all, or to register it as a different breed. I just do not see either of those things happening.

The UKC recognizes the white GSD and the White Shepherd. The same could be done in the AKC.

Do the Germans just cull them so no one knows their dogs threw a white pup? Or have too many generations gone by that the white ones are now extinct over there? It isn't so hard to maintain that they are not registered if they never happen. ?

Mrs K probably has a better idea about how often whites show up in SV litters and what happens to them, hopefully she'll jump in. I'm guessing it doesn't happen too often. Good breeders would have been avoiding that recessive gene for a long time, yes? Maybe it's something you see in the German version of byb - breeders who don't care if their dogs can be registered. No idea.

 

Mrs K probably has a better idea about how often whites show up in SV litters and what happens to them, hopefully she'll jump in. I'm guessing it doesn't happen too often. Good breeders would have been avoiding that recessive gene for a long time, yes? Maybe it's something you see in the German version of byb - breeders who don't care if their dogs can be registered. No idea.

To be honest, I have never even heard or seen any white Shepherd being born out of an SV litter.

I've seen longcoat without the undercoat and they are a fault too but the breeders I know, they don't cull them. They go into families just like the other pups.

It doesn't mean that it doesn't happen every so often.

 

Also how does the standard differ for the White Shepherd, Berger Blanc Swiss, German Shepherd White?

It seems just from what I have seen that not many whites are in Schutzhund, or Law Enforcement, but are more in Agility or Obedience.

Is this because there are fewer white or because the standard is different?