[lhczth]

Yes, Lies, that is what I am trying to say. Correct reach comes from an opening of the shoulder and not lifting of the leg off of the ground from the elbow. Correct reach, as shown in the photo I posted, covers ground efficiently Vs. a dog that lifts its front leg from the elbow. The photo of the dog doing agility is not a good example.

A short upper arm tends to cause lifting of the leg and restricts movement. This is also a problem in horses and can cause choppy up down movement like seen in many old style Morgans and some of the pony breeds.

 

[Liesje]

Is it true that dogs will also tend to lift if their front angulation and reach doesn't match the rear angulation?

 

[lhczth]

Usually the dogs that I see who have more angulation in the rear compared to the front tend to either look like they are running down hill or they crab. Many of those who "run down hill" also tend to have very flat withers. I have seen this more in the working lines than the show. I see more lifting in the show lines.

I tend to look for dogs that show very good balance when they gait. A nice moderate dog with nothing extreme. This way they maintain GSD type while still having the structure for a good versatile working dog.

 

[4TheDawgies]

Lisa thank you for your wonderful insight on this thread. Could you please show us an example of "downhill" gaiting in a photo or video, and crabbing?

 

[cliffson1]

Great stuff, Lisa

 

[lhczth]

Videos for me are difficult since I have dial up and can only view some on my phone. I remember a photo on here in the critique threads of a dog that looked like it was running down hill. I would have to do a search to see if I can find that dog.

Crabbing is easy to see, but you think I can actually find a way to describe it? LOL

 

[robk]

So, from what I gather, Dingo vom has Gero has as close as possible to an ideal confirmation with very good angulation in both the front in rear. From a critical eye, what are we looking at? I am posting both a picture of his stack and a youtube video. I know he has been discussed in other threads but I think he can be reviewed here. When I look at the video (sorry Lisa, I know you are still using dial up!) I see his forearm extend way out. Is this what we are talking about?

 

[Xeph]

I see his forearm extend way out. Is this what we are talking about?

Yes, but what many people forget is that you must also pay attention to where the foot LANDS. The forefoot reaching way out past the nose means absolutely nothing if the dog's foot lands under its chest, for example.

You should also be able to see a correct shoulder opening whether the dog is walking or trotting

Opening at the shoulder:

 

[carmspack]

"I have seen many showlines with high V structure who can barely make it over the 1 m hurdle. They also can't turn as quickly as a dog with less angulation. I am not trying to bash showline dogs, but many are not as agile as working lines,"

Oh yeah ! this is why I posted this from the web site of the Ontario Regional trials "

• Strong desire to work
• Courage
• Intelligence
• Trainability
• Strong bond to the handler
• Perseverance
• Protective Instinct

IPO tests for these traits. It also tests for physical traits such as strength, endurance, agility, and scenting ability
" because , as I said before , I did not see it .

even though their structure is closer to the breed standard.
??? who ? what? the show lines ! Not modern ones . Mutz Pelztierfarm , Marko Cellerland , BERND and BODO Lierberg , Dingo vom haus Gero -- okay .

Wildo I've sent you many examples of dogs that are bound up and totally restricted in front movement - and by that I am not talking about side-movement .
here is what a good front with ability to open up looks like
"von Lord Fandor" -- even when she is galloping and compressing , that front allows her to pull right under to the mid of her core. The agility comes from the flex in the back. See the difference in the dog chosen for the banner -- !! This compression is like pulling back on a spring , collecting the energy , this then allows for maximum forward movement , launching , jumping , full extension.


IPO Trial | 2012 Ontario Regional IPO Championship / Show / Breed Survey

This post is written over an entire day so new contributions have appeared in the meantime. I believe Lisa said the dogs lift -- that is what I see in the show ring . The entire front lifts so that the dog looks like a wedge when moving , not the even topline where as in the old days the saying was you wouldn't spill water if you placed a glass on that top.
I am sure there will be more ..
Carmen
CARMSPACK.com

 

[cliffson1]

Dag! Both of them look Good!....lol

 

[lhczth]

I have watched Dingo's video many times. Look how LONG Dingo's upper arm is. Yes, he was pretty darn correct (a bit loose overall, but correct in movement).

The dog Jackie shows also has excellent reach, but she lacks balance overall.

 

[Liesje]

Is Nikon's OK? I know he's not that great and am told he lacks drive in the rear. There is some slow-motion so it's easier to see (better towards the end).

 

[lhczth]

Nikon is very balanced. No extremes. He could have a hair bit more reach and more drive through the rear, but his gait is balanced, IMO. Nice thing is that the video shows him moving freely next to the bike.

 

[DunRingill]

Nikon's movement is nicely balanced....you can especially see that in the slow motion video. He moves in a perfect 2 beat gait. A LOT of dogs do not!

 

[Xeph]

The dog Jackie shows also has excellent reach, but she lacks balance overall.

I find this interesting First time I've heard such about this particular dog

 

[gagsd]

I can't view all of these photos on my handheld, but the second dog down displays a lot of front elevation, but very little reach IMO.
Thoughts?
Male for sale: Large Sales Of FOUR Great Ddog - Best Offer Gets (id: 160893) - German Shepherd Dog

 

[Liesje]

Wow thanks guys! I guess I never thought of him as a real mover. What I do like about him is that he's not extreme (or extremely bad!) and that he's always been tight or dry or however you say it. He was never a gangly, loose dog even when he was growing at wonky stages. It's also interesting that he moves so well in a gait considering his problems (he actually walks with a limp and drags his right rear foot). In the video I was trying to bike as fast as I could before he would break into a run and didn't quite get it since the parking lot there is really uneven and full of holes (I think he stutter-steps one in the video).

 

[Xeph]

but very little reach IMO.

No reach. He's moving from the elbow

 

[DianaM]

What is preventing the reach in the dogs from the pdb link? Such sorry movement.

 

[paulag1955]

I'm sorry to repeat myself, but what do you mean by dry?